Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[fishhhandaricecake]

It comes down to as well having round pegs in round holes. That sounds like it should be simple to do, but for various reasons in football rarely is the case.

Poch's peak team probably was the best case of a Spurs team having components that fit hand in glove with what the manager wanted to do, and had done at Espanyol and Soton previous to that. Sweeper keeper, centre backs who could play out, aggressive energetic wing backs, sturdy dominating double pivot screen, a player from the attacking midfield line who could drop to help create and build up, a versatile centre forward who could be a focal point and drop, whilst someone from the attacking midfield, either central or wide, played as a second striker type often being the most advanced. All the boxes got ticked, things came together, lo and behold we got unprecedented results for the PL era.

I don't think some of those players were actually the most talented. Rose and Walker we always used to bemoan for end product. But they were so athletic and aggressive in their flank play this didn't matter so much, and they fit the high energy tactics. Dembele and Wanyama/Dier couldn't really progress the ball that well, but they were there to defend mainly and had Eriksen dropping to aid that, and the responsibility was mainly on the free front four to do the attacking work. Dele was always a bit of a maverick, needed total freedom to run forward and do his flair stuff which eventually might come off, and in different teams it didn't work and showed his limitations.

We have to focus on now the right players for the job asked of them, not the most talented. Good luck getting Bale, Adebayor, Van Der Vaart to press in these tactics. Lennon to run in at the back post ad nauseum. Late-stage Ledley, Gallas, Dawson etc. to play in an ultra aggressive high line. Spurs-era Walker or Rose to play as the inverted fullbacks with heavy responsibility on the ball. Could Parker, Wanyama, or Dembele have played as a single pivot, tasked with defending a huge amount of space plus being responsible for progressing the ball and breaking the lines? Where would you find a role for Dele, or van der Vaart? etc etc etc.

Right now to me we just need to focus on smart decisions. Not necessarily the best players or biggest names, but people who fit the remit. Unfortunately as I keep saying I'm not convinced about our judgement on that. We deliberately condense the pitch and want to out-football everyone, intricately. To me that means technical ability/players, naturally intricate with great first touch and ability to pass, and people who are comfortable operating between the lines as high as possible. Whilst when all our attacks basically are constructed in some way down the flanks then they are key players and might well be where all the budget gets blown to get the right options. People can judge how they want, but for me we've got nowhere yet ticking enough boxes.

Love this and really good points.

 

[Johnny J]

It comes down to as well having round pegs in round holes. That sounds like it should be simple to do, but for various reasons in football rarely is the case.

Poch's peak team probably was the best case of a Spurs team having components that fit hand in glove with what the manager wanted to do, and had done at Espanyol and Soton previous to that. Sweeper keeper, centre backs who could play out, aggressive energetic wing backs, sturdy dominating double pivot screen, a player from the attacking midfield line who could drop to help create and build up, a versatile centre forward who could be a focal point and drop, whilst someone from the attacking midfield, either central or wide, played as a second striker type often being the most advanced. All the boxes got ticked, things came together, lo and behold we got unprecedented results for the PL era.

I don't think some of those players were actually the most talented. Rose and Walker we always used to bemoan for end product. But they were so athletic and aggressive in their flank play this didn't matter so much, and they fit the high energy tactics. Dembele and Wanyama/Dier couldn't really progress the ball that well, but they were there to defend mainly and had Eriksen dropping to aid that, and the responsibility was mainly on the free front four to do the attacking work. Dele was always a bit of a maverick, needed total freedom to run forward and do his flair stuff which eventually might come off, and in different teams it didn't work and showed his limitations.

We have to focus on now the right players for the job asked of them, not the most talented. Good luck getting Bale, Adebayor, Van Der Vaart to press in these tactics. Lennon to run in at the back post ad nauseum. Late-stage Ledley, Gallas, Dawson etc. to play in an ultra aggressive high line. Spurs-era Walker or Rose to play as the inverted fullbacks with heavy responsibility on the ball. Could Parker, Wanyama, or Dembele have played as a single pivot, tasked with defending a huge amount of space plus being responsible for progressing the ball and breaking the lines? Where would you find a role for Dele, or van der Vaart? etc etc etc.

Right now to me we just need to focus on smart decisions. Not necessarily the best players or biggest names, but people who fit the remit. Unfortunately as I keep saying I'm not convinced about our judgement on that. We deliberately condense the pitch and want to out-football everyone, intricately. To me that means technical ability/players, naturally intricate with great first touch and ability to pass, and people who are comfortable operating between the lines as high as possible. Whilst when all our attacks basically are constructed in some way down the flanks then they are key players and might well be where all the budget gets blown to get the right options. People can judge how they want, but for me we've got nowhere yet ticking enough boxes.

Nailed it.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

We didnt make one signing that summer, what an opportunity which we absolutely wasted.

Im sure we could of made one or two.

But yes, your last pargraph - thats the hope.

Tbf depending on what you believe we had opportunities to sign players but Poch was fully set on De Jong / NDombele or nothing.

I'm sure there was probably a restriction on budget rather than no budget, but Poch didn't want to waste what little money he had on a player he thought wouldn't improve the squad.

Essentially at the time, the team/squad progressed faster than the club could financially sustain. With our increased revenues the hope is that we can maintain any momentum we build.

 

[SpursSince1980]

Anyone saying he shouldn’t see out the season are stupid but no one is saying that really. Should he be blindly given a 3rd season, absolutely not but if we see progress this year then he should be.

I think that’s where most people are at. I still think we’ll have a good season (4th-6th and a decent cup run but I’m feeling pretty negative about the NLD in a couple of weeks)

They don’t have to. It’s the subtext of what is being said. Some just don’t want to say it outright three games into a season for fear of being neg repped into hell.

They will be more vocal if we lose 5 of our first ten games. And I say ‘bravo’ to them for at least being brave enough to espouse what might be an unpopular decision. At least they have the courage to own it. Unlike others who like the best politicians will dog whistle away and walk it up to the line, but won’t cross because they lack the confidence.

I think this season may be worse than last because of results. But I think we will start looking very good in the last ten games. Especially when some of the younger lads are more up to speed.

Hopefully next summer we will bring in complimentary pieces of a high quality and next season we will see this team dominating. Or, as many have mentioned, we either don’t have money for “bigger” purchases, and/or Ange will fail because his tactics don’t work. And we will start all over again.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

They don’t have to. It’s the subtext of what is being said. Some just don’t want to say it outright three games into a season for fear of being neg repped into hell.

They will be more vocal if we lose 5 of our first ten games. And I say ‘bravo’ to them for at least being brave enough to espouse what might be an unpopular decision. At least they have the courage to own it. Unlike others who like the best politicians will dog whistle away and walk it up to the line, but won’t cross because they lack the confidence.

I think this season may be worse than last because of results. But I think we will start looking very good in the last ten games. Especially when some of the younger lads are more up to speed.

Hopefully next summer we will bring in complimentary pieces of a high quality and next season we will see this team dominating. Or, as many have mentioned, we either don’t have money for “bigger” purchases, and/or Ange will fail because his tactics don’t work. And we will start all over again.

I think Ange will fail, because his current tactics are unworkable and he doesn’t have the will or talent to adapt them, but we won’t have to start all over again. The squad we have is capable of excellent performances as it is, if we just played normal football. Any half decent coach would have us doing very well very quickly. I’m happy to wait until next season.

 

[mil1lion]

It comes down to as well having round pegs in round holes. That sounds like it should be simple to do, but for various reasons in football rarely is the case.

Poch's peak team probably was the best case of a Spurs team having components that fit hand in glove with what the manager wanted to do, and had done at Espanyol and Soton previous to that. Sweeper keeper, centre backs who could play out, aggressive energetic wing backs, sturdy dominating double pivot screen, a player from the attacking midfield line who could drop to help create and build up, a versatile centre forward who could be a focal point and drop, whilst someone from the attacking midfield, either central or wide, played as a second striker type often being the most advanced. All the boxes got ticked, things came together, lo and behold we got unprecedented results for the PL era.

I don't think some of those players were actually the most talented. Rose and Walker we always used to bemoan for end product. But they were so athletic and aggressive in their flank play this didn't matter so much, and they fit the high energy tactics. Dembele and Wanyama/Dier couldn't really progress the ball that well, but they were there to defend mainly and had Eriksen dropping to aid that, and the responsibility was mainly on the free front four to do the attacking work. Dele was always a bit of a maverick, needed total freedom to run forward and do his flair stuff which eventually might come off, and in different teams it didn't work and showed his limitations.

We have to focus on now the right players for the job asked of them, not the most talented. Good luck getting Bale, Adebayor, Van Der Vaart to press in these tactics. Lennon to run in at the back post ad nauseum. Late-stage Ledley, Gallas, Dawson etc. to play in an ultra aggressive high line. Spurs-era Walker or Rose to play as the inverted fullbacks with heavy responsibility on the ball. Could Parker, Wanyama, or Dembele have played as a single pivot, tasked with defending a huge amount of space plus being responsible for progressing the ball and breaking the lines? Where would you find a role for Dele, or van der Vaart? etc etc etc.

Right now to me we just need to focus on smart decisions. Not necessarily the best players or biggest names, but people who fit the remit. Unfortunately as I keep saying I'm not convinced about our judgement on that. We deliberately condense the pitch and want to out-football everyone, intricately. To me that means technical ability/players, naturally intricate with great first touch and ability to pass, and people who are comfortable operating between the lines as high as possible. Whilst when all our attacks basically are constructed in some way down the flanks then they are key players and might well be where all the budget gets blown to get the right options. People can judge how they want, but for me we've got nowhere yet ticking enough boxes.

I agree with your points but I would 100% take Wanyama as our 6, VDV as our 10 over Maddison and Dembele would be a great 8 over any of ours, Bale had the energy to play box to box and for sure would be great under Ange (he just wouldn't want to keep tracking back as much but pressing on the front foot not an issue)

 

[Mr Pink]

Vicario

Walker
Toby
Jan
Udogie

Wanyama
Dembele
Modric

Bale
Kane
Son

 

[Timbo Tottenham]

Vicario

Walker
Toby
Jan
Udogie

Wanyama
Dembele
Modric

Bale
Kane
Son

And I’d probably still have Rose in there

 

[Styopa]

And I’d probably still have Rose in there

Me too… and also Vicario for Lloris.

 

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

I think Ange will fail, because his current tactics are unworkable and he doesn’t have the will or talent to adapt them, but we won’t have to start all over again. The squad we have is capable of excellent performances as it is, if we just played normal football. Any half decent coach would have us doing very well very quickly. I’m happy to wait until next season.

And then you'll be first to hound the next guy out the moment it's not clicked into place after a season, so why bother?

 

[rossdapep]

It comes down to as well having round pegs in round holes. That sounds like it should be simple to do, but for various reasons in football rarely is the case.

Poch's peak team probably was the best case of a Spurs team having components that fit hand in glove with what the manager wanted to do, and had done at Espanyol and Soton previous to that. Sweeper keeper, centre backs who could play out, aggressive energetic wing backs, sturdy dominating double pivot screen, a player from the attacking midfield line who could drop to help create and build up, a versatile centre forward who could be a focal point and drop, whilst someone from the attacking midfield, either central or wide, played as a second striker type often being the most advanced. All the boxes got ticked, things came together, lo and behold we got unprecedented results for the PL era.

I don't think some of those players were actually the most talented. Rose and Walker we always used to bemoan for end product. But they were so athletic and aggressive in their flank play this didn't matter so much, and they fit the high energy tactics. Dembele and Wanyama/Dier couldn't really progress the ball that well, but they were there to defend mainly and had Eriksen dropping to aid that, and the responsibility was mainly on the free front four to do the attacking work. Dele was always a bit of a maverick, needed total freedom to run forward and do his flair stuff which eventually might come off, and in different teams it didn't work and showed his limitations.

We have to focus on now the right players for the job asked of them, not the most talented. Good luck getting Bale, Adebayor, Van Der Vaart to press in these tactics. Lennon to run in at the back post ad nauseum. Late-stage Ledley, Gallas, Dawson etc. to play in an ultra aggressive high line. Spurs-era Walker or Rose to play as the inverted fullbacks with heavy responsibility on the ball. Could Parker, Wanyama, or Dembele have played as a single pivot, tasked with defending a huge amount of space plus being responsible for progressing the ball and breaking the lines? Where would you find a role for Dele, or van der Vaart? etc etc etc.

Right now to me we just need to focus on smart decisions. Not necessarily the best players or biggest names, but people who fit the remit. Unfortunately as I keep saying I'm not convinced about our judgement on that. We deliberately condense the pitch and want to out-football everyone, intricately. To me that means technical ability/players, naturally intricate with great first touch and ability to pass, and people who are comfortable operating between the lines as high as possible. Whilst when all our attacks basically are constructed in some way down the flanks then they are key players and might well be where all the budget gets blown to get the right options. People can judge how they want, but for me we've got nowhere yet ticking enough boxes.

Have to agree with your comments about technical players.

This can be largely seen by the amount of times there's a loose touch, a pass not quite executed well or when a player takes too many touches.

This is responsible for a lot of our moves breaking down and it's generally why we concede a lot as we are not able to snuff out every single counter attack. I think we have gotten better but it's still not enough to ensure the opposition don't get a chance.

But, yeah, we lack that real ability to play intricately consistently in those areas.

When City do similar to us, they have so many players that are able to operate in these tight spaces and not have to play back or out wide like we do (Sarr and Bissouma do this often).

Even Udogie is a little restricted at times.

Be interesting to see if Bergvall can change that.

 

[npearl4spurs]

And I’d probably still have Rose in there

Me too… and also Vicario for Lloris.

Think I’d play Jan at LB and Mickey VDV at LCB. Or maybe vice versa to not break up the Toby Jan partnership. But to me Jan was still a handful going forward

 

[Cambridge Spur]

Vicario

Walker
Toby
Jan
Udogie

Wanyama
Dembele
Modric

Bale
Kane
Son

No way would I have Vicario over Lloris!

 

[NEVILLEB]

Definitely. While I believe we've made progress in our recruitment over the past couple of years, reaching the levels of Bale, Modric, and Kane is a super high bar to meet. The fact we had Modric, Bale, van der Vaart and Lennon all playing in the same team is pretty amazing looking back. Then Dembele, Eriksen and Kane a couple of seasons later.

I don't see the same quality in the team right now, although maybe some of the younger players, like Gray Bergvall or Moore will get there within the next few seasons.

We seemed to have a great scouting set up for quite a while and sadly the owners let it die.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Put Dembele in this team and we’d be doing well.

We need an outstanding centre midfielder. It’s been a while!

 

[Guntz]

It's a good example to bring up.

Rice is a top PL player but still attainable for a club like arsenal because he wouldn't have demanded over 200k to sign up.

It was all about the project.

I'm certain that had a player like Rice been a target for Poch back when we were at our peak, he'd have wanted to join.

Unfortunately, we aren't prepared to do that kind of deal.

Noone, or at least hardly anyone, expects us to get on top and then drop 120m (300k salary) on a player like Williams or Osimhen.

However, there is a bracket of player just below that, that would be attainable but unfortunately we just won't ever see that outlay on a special kind of player.

We are more likely to get into a great position and continue to find players who are promising and could go up another level.

Therefore we won't get over the line because we haven't put our foot down.

Arsenal were signing the likes of Partey, Odegaard even during their rise, again, we won't do deals like that.

Again, it'll take longer for us because we need these players to develop first.

Bang on mate.

We signed Scott Parker who was WH captain at the time.

We're never doing that type of deal now.

 

[Guntz]

Vicario

Walker
Toby
Jan
Udogie

Wanyama
Dembele
Modric

Bale
Kane
Son

Prime Lloris was something else, people have short memories. His shot-stopping was one of the best in the world.

He was the French captain for several years.

Vicario has a way to go yet.

 

[jolsnogross]

I'm not convinced it's a lack of technical players that's our problem. It's the aggressive cutting edge that's lacking. Son has it but is a bit streaky and doesn't seem to have the necessary bottle when things are going against us. I'm hoping the penny drops for Johnson - I think his ceiling is pretty high, but he needs to build more confidence in his own ability. I'm concerned that Maddison is too much of a show boat and not enough of a killer around the box. When you compare these guys to Liverpool's options, it's like night and day in terms of that aggressive and efficient ability to convert dominance onto the scoresheet.

Ange needs to keep an eye on who he trusts to deliver. Pretty patterns with little end product (Maddison) or 1-in-5 players (Werner) will hinder us unless they change/improve. Likewise in midfield, for all the technical ability of Poch's peak team, having Wanyama and Dembele side-by-side really delivered midfield dominance that transferred to the scoreline. Ange needs time to coach/change some players to have a coll-headed killer instinct. And he's got to be decisive about how long of a chance certain players get to deliver this.

 

[SpursSince1980]

I think Ange will fail, because his current tactics are unworkable and he doesn’t have the will or talent to adapt them, but we won’t have to start all over again. The squad we have is capable of excellent performances as it is, if we just played normal football. Any half decent coach would have us doing very well very quickly. I’m happy to wait until next season.

I sincerely appreciate your honesty. I hope you’re wrong. But at least your are owning your doubts and belief he will fail.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I think Ange will fail, because his current tactics are unworkable and he doesn’t have the will or talent to adapt them, but we won’t have to start all over again. The squad we have is capable of excellent performances as it is, if we just played normal football. Any half decent coach would have us doing very well very quickly. I’m happy to wait until next season.

Fine, I'll just own up and add myself to this. I don't want him to fail. I don't want another change in manager. I want this to all work. But I think it's inevitable.

Therefore I'll do my very best to stop banging this drum and just cross my fingers I'm wrong.