Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[funkycoldmedina]

On his day he is a great player, but those days seem to be few and far between.

In his defence he is learning a new position, there's a lot more responsibility and he had no striker yesterday to work with

 

[funkycoldmedina]

It helps when your board (FSG) go out and sign the players needed and not just prospects.

Alison and VVD pretty much solidified that system. I don’t think it’s a vulnerable system though, but it’s hard to tell when you have a front three of Mane, Salah and Firminho scoring for fun. Who cares if we ship 3? We’re just going to score 4 or more and that’s exactly what they did on a few occasions.

They did sign prospects, everyone remembers VVD and Allison but a lot of the others weren't of that level

 

[Gassin's finest]

Klopp bought Allison because he knew that his team would give up one or two of those opportunities a game and Allison was elite in those situations. But really what he wanted was his team to control the game in the oppositions half. We're doing that better this season but still have lapses. The biggest culprits for me are Deki and Maddison, who turn over the ball cheaply in the centre of the pitch and that then causes the issues.

Klopp bought Allison because Karius literally threw a CL final away. Unsurprisingly they won it the following season.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

In his defence he is learning a new position, there's a lot more responsibility and he had no striker yesterday to work with

Agreed, I think we’ve found a position where he thrives and it works to his strengths. I only want to see him play centrally from now on, it’s clearly his best suited position. Not as a shoehorn “false 9”, but AM competition or alongside Maddison.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

They did sign prospects, everyone remembers VVD and Allison but a lot of the others weren't of that level

I know, that’s why I said not just prospects *

 

[Ribble]

It helps when your board (FSG) go out and sign the players needed and not just prospects.

They could only go out and splash as much as they did on VVD and Alisson because Barca gave them £105m of the Neymar money for Coutinho, without that there's no way FSG would sanction those deals.

 

[ReadieSpur]

The fact that we're evn discussing giving Ange the boot is crazy. The spurs fans doing that are part of the problem and are contributing to our lack of success. The negativity seeps into the team and further into the psyche of the fans and it's a vicious circle.

We fans really need to change our mindset for this season.

We have cleared the decks and have obviously bought players for a team that will peak in 2-3 years. (possibly with no Man city or Pep about either btw.) We need to try and keep thereabouts during that time, but I wouldn't expect any major success until then.

If fans can accept that, then they Have to give Ange the time.

 

[Styopa]

They could only go out and splash as much as they did on VVD and Alisson because Barca gave them £105m of the Neymar money for Coutinho, without that there's no way FSG would sanction those deals.

Of course, we also sold Kane for £100m but arguably we have already reinvested that and more on the likes of Johnson, Maddison, Solanke and Odobert.

 

[absolute bobbins]

I meant Virgil Van Dijk, he was the big one Klopp wanted after he'd done his squad surgery.

I think the difference with Ange is that we are less likely to find a marquee signing like van Dijk considering his preferred profile of young, very hungry and with a strong desire to play for Spurs.

That being said, if there is a £70-£100m proven player out there that fits his criteria then the club must do everything in its power to caputre the player and I mean everything, none of this 'we tried' but too pricey when you're only £10m apart bollocks.

 

[olithfc]

Of course, we also sold Kane for £100m but arguably we have already reinvested that and more on the likes of Johnson, Maddison, Solanke and Odobert.

the sympathy I have for Ange is that although we sold Kane and got the money for him, the departure has also coincided with Son becoming at least a bit less effective. That's quite a lot of goal contributions to have to deal with

 

[WiganSpur]

I think the difference with Ange is that we are less likely to find a marquee signing like van Dijk considering his preferred profile of young, very hungry and with a strong desire to play for Spurs.

That being said, if there is a £70-£100m proven player out there that fits his criteria then the club must do everything in its power to caputre the player and I mean everything, none of this 'we tried' but too pricey when you're only £10m apart bollocks.

I think there’s an in between though. You would argue for example that Neto fits that profile with Nico Williams being the VVD level. Odobert then a development signing below that. We don’t bring in enough of the Neto’s etc.

Last season we did however we sold one of the Premier League’s greatest ever players.

 

[bubble07]

100% aware it will never ever happen but I would like to see the famous conte back 3 for a game

Vicario
Dragusin Romero VDV
Porro Bissouma Bergvall Udogie
Odobert Solanke Son

Or just as drastic to have Romero in CM

Vicario
Porro Dragusin VDV Udogie
Romero Bissouma
Odobert Maddison Son
Solanke

 

[Styopa]

The fact that we're evn discussing giving Ange the boot is crazy.

Is anyone really discussing giving Ange the boot though? The conversation seems to be more about the "project," progress, timescales, form, whether Ange should adjust his tactics, and if he has the right players. I haven't seen much discussion about whether we should sack him.

 

[Jamturk]

Saying that I would suck on @Archibald&Crooks old plug to have Harry Kane back under Ange

I was at the Shakhtar game and Harry wasn't even trying (4 goals)

 

[WiganSpur]

100% aware it will never ever happen but I would like to see the famous conte back 3 for a game

Vicario
Dragusin Romero VDV
Porro Bissouma Bergvall Udogie
Odobert Solanke Son

Or just as drastic to have Romero in CM

Vicario
Porro Dragusin VDV Udogie
Romero Bissouma
Odobert Maddison Son
Solanke

I like the back three a lot for the first XI but we wouldn’t be able to sustain it over the course of the season with only 3 good centre halves and one wing back where the back up would be one of the centre halves.

 

[Styopa]

the sympathy I have for Ange is that although we sold Kane and got the money for him, the departure has also coincided with Son becoming at least a bit less effective. That's quite a lot of goal contributions to have to deal with

Yeah, Ange has faced a really tough challenge. We sold a truly world-class striker and didn't replace him with anyone close to that level. We've improved the squad significantly, but there's huge gap in quality and consistency between Kane and the likes of Maddison and Johnson. At least Solanke should help matters this season.

 

[Tucker]

Is anyone really discussing giving Ange the boot though? The conversation seems to be more about the "project," progress, timescales, form, whether Ange should adjust his tactics, and if he has the right players. I haven't seen much discussion about whether we should sack him.

There have been one or two, but the vast majority aren’t saying that, yet.

I do think people are laying the groundwork to turn on him though. There is a lot of “if he doesn’t change his tactics…” style posts. And it’s obvious to me he isn’t going to change his tactics. This is who he is, it’s all out attack with a high line and inverted fullbacks. That isn’t changing any time soon.

People need to accept that and find some patience. We are in step two of a project and we aren’t the finished article yet.

 

[Trees]

There have been one or two, but the vast majority aren’t saying that, yet.

I do think people are laying the groundwork to turn on him though. There is a lot of “if he doesn’t change his tactics…” style posts. And it’s obvious to me he isn’t going to change his tactics. This is who he is, it’s all out attack with a high line and inverted fullbacks. That isn’t changing any time soon.

People need to accept that and find some patience. We are in step two of a project and we aren’t the finished article yet.

I think I was the first one on here to call for Ange to go. I got pelters for it.
However, 9 days out of 10 we would have got a result yesterday. You can’t legislate for 3 strikers all being injured.

I personally think we have bought really well. If Ange falls by the wayside, then we have a group ready to be moulded.

I also think as crazy as it sounds that we will beat Arsenal

 

[mpickard2087]

The fact that we're evn discussing giving Ange the boot is crazy. The spurs fans doing that are part of the problem and are contributing to our lack of success. The negativity seeps into the team and further into the psyche of the fans and it's a vicious circle.

We fans really need to change our mindset for this season.

We have cleared the decks and have obviously bought players for a team that will peak in 2-3 years. (possibly with no Man city or Pep about either btw.) We need to try and keep thereabouts during that time, but I wouldn't expect any major success until then.

If fans can accept that, then they Have to give Ange the time.

That is a pretty tough one to sell though, stick with endless foundation phases and maybe in a few years we'll be able to try and win, and incredibly high risk in trying to prime a team for that far into the future. Many things could derail that - changing manager and under pressure lurching to another style which tears up best laid plans, better performers wanting to move on, players losing form, etc etc.

I might be wrong, but a lot of the sentiment/positivity of Spurs fans this summer seems to be getting comfort from the belief that everyone of these kids we're signing and developing is going to be shit hot. That is an absurd amount of pressure/expectation to be putting on a bunch of teenagers.

They say if you get 50% of transfers right then you're doing well. Take Bergvall, Gray, Odobert, Yang, Vuskovic, and whoever else we're signing up. A lot of fans seem to automatically assuming they become lynchpins, and yes they might all look pretty promising, but some are going to not make the level of top tier PL/CL team and if only a couple of them do then we've still done pretty well, but it's not a sure thing.

Youth academy development is an even more inexact science. People might be able to reel off a dozen names - Moore, Lankshear, Donley, et al - they're buzzing about but if one or two make it to the aforementioned level and become a regular then again we're doing well. Some of them might appear near, but really still have a mountain to climb. Things change quickly, it was only a couple of years back that narrative was that Ollie Skipp was a future Spurs and England captain in waiting......

Then you have the existing established players. The only direction Son is going to go at his age is the wrong one. Whilst with people like Maddison, Bissouma, Kulusevski and a fair few others they haven't been able to sort out their inconsistencies and weaknesses several seasons in to their careers and at their mid/late 20's, what reason is there to expect they do and kick on now? Is this even a nucleus you want to build around and upon?

I don't think it is particularly realistic to go all in on doing something in 3-5 years time, but a lot seem to be doing that - fans and people at the club. Whilst you should always be looking to the future, it's a balancing act and you don't want to collapse any grand plans by stalling in the present.

 

[Goobers]

The problem for me is this way of playing requires you to totally dominate the midfield, and as soon as you lose it you need to close down extremely quickly. If you can't win the ball back, you at the very least have to stop them playing forward. There is so much open space to hit, the pass doesn't even need to be that accurate as long as the forward is quick. Any lapse in concentration, a slip, or a player being out muscled leaves you at best in a one v one foot race, and at worst the forward clean through on the keeper.

I'm not asking for major changes either, I'm asking for tweaks, especially when VdV is out and that footrace becomes much harder to win.

The interesting thing here is that by and large one of the things that impressed me most about yesterday was how quickly we won the ball back off them throughout.
BUT it only takes that one decent pass into that good area to turn us backwards. Now that happened rarely yesterday but they made it count.