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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

cliff jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,210
6,969
A lot of parallels i reckon. Beyond the 5th place finishes we were riddled with inconsistent performances just like we are now. Like this years wins against liverpool and utd we beat 2 of the 'big 6' in chelsea and arsenal in Pochs first year, but followed both results with defeats. We had a decent core of young players but like this year were exposed and took some beatings while we were trying to get to grips with a new coaches tactics, especially the big games (4-1 at city, 3 nil at chelsea and utd). Even that Villa game that Poch felt saved his job was followed by defeat at home to stoke.
I just hope the parallels continue and Ange gets a summer window of similar quality to Pochs second summer where we saw Alli, Toby, Trippier and Sonny join the ranks.
What a fkin window that proved to be! And none of them cost fortunes either
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,169
5,145
I've not commented much here as others have made my points effectively.

I'm pleased with any signs that there is flexibility in the Ange system and, thank gawd there's been a few recent signs of this. Ange's brush off of the question regarding predictability with 'I've played all the different ways over my career' did not address what every neutral commentator/oppo team for the last 7-8 months have identified..and ruthlessly exploited. That 10 match winning streak can be partly explained by the fact it took that long for the Prem to cotton on.

Needs to play one way until everyone knows his role before tweaking explanation, seems a bit convoluted to me, but we'll see. The spectacle of the top teams drastically altering their strategies/formations depending on who they are playing will have affected him imo. His early mantra 'Same way of playing regardless of situation in the match or who we play' (I paraphrase) has been de-emphasised. He knows he'll need a lot more than one system now.

For me, it looks like Ange has been on a steep learning curve, he's mentioned he needs to be better. He used to talk about title challenges for next season. This has dropped to 'Making an impact' next season which is a realistic change. There will be no 2nd string/ kids in our League cup campaign next year f'sure. Only the title/Cl victory worth it talk has quietly disappeared . Yes, he's adapting imo. A bit speedier to spot issues in-game might be nice. The set-piece/Vic bullying took a while to sort.

He is seriously good at calming worried fans with his presentations. 'I'm loving Big Ange instead' sung by the stadium after 4 defeats in 5 is a testament to this skill. He's also good at talking players into signing.

So there's a lot of qualities he brings to the table, but unless he continues to adapt to the top level of football, there
are a lot of uncertainties. The other thing built into expectations for next season is that Levy will buy oven ready players to lift our quality. This, looking at past windows, is not a sure thing. I'm not entirely sure why we can't compete at the top table for signings with our financial situation, but it seems generally accepted among fans that we can't and so Levy can safely ignore the best players out there without sanction.

Overall then, Ange adapts/Levy coughs and we could have a reasonable season next year imo.
 

jakuba

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
180
593
I've not commented much here as others have made my points effectively.

I'm pleased with any signs that there is flexibility in the Ange system and, thank gawd there's been a few recent signs of this. Ange's brush off of the question regarding predictability with 'I've played all the different ways over my career' did not address what every neutral commentator/oppo team for the last 7-8 months have identified..and ruthlessly exploited. That 10 match winning streak can be partly explained by the fact it took that long for the Prem to cotton on.

Needs to play one way until everyone knows his role before tweaking explanation, seems a bit convoluted to me, but we'll see. The spectacle of the top teams drastically altering their strategies/formations depending on who they are playing will have affected him imo. His early mantra 'Same way of playing regardless of situation in the match or who we play' (I paraphrase) has been de-emphasised. He knows he'll need a lot more than one system now.

For me, it looks like Ange has been on a steep learning curve, he's mentioned he needs to be better. He used to talk about title challenges for next season. This has dropped to 'Making an impact' next season which is a realistic change. There will be no 2nd string/ kids in our League cup campaign next year f'sure. Only the title/Cl victory worth it talk has quietly disappeared . Yes, he's adapting imo. A bit speedier to spot issues in-game might be nice. The set-piece/Vic bullying took a while to sort.

He is seriously good at calming worried fans with his presentations. 'I'm loving Big Ange instead' sung by the stadium after 4 defeats in 5 is a testament to this skill. He's also good at talking players into signing.

So there's a lot of qualities he brings to the table, but unless he continues to adapt to the top level of football, there
are a lot of uncertainties. The other thing built into expectations for next season is that Levy will buy oven ready players to lift our quality. This, looking at past windows, is not a sure thing. I'm not entirely sure why we can't compete at the top table for signings with our financial situation, but it seems generally accepted among fans that we can't and so Levy can safely ignore the best players out there without sanction.

Overall then, Ange adapts/Levy coughs and we could have a reasonable season next year imo.
It’ll be an interesting transfer window in terms of what to expect. As it does seem like Ange has got the backing of upstairs and our approach to players since Paratici came in does seem less scattergun.

Ange had decent backing in the summer, though admittedly this was likely on the basis we knew we’d get a good few for Kane. But equally Ange was an unknown quantity so even with that knowledge of sales proceeds it does seem a solid backing in the window. Now we know what to expect a bit more you wonder how that translates to board backing without significant sales. I’d hope he’s earned enough faith for them to back him in recruiting where he and the transfer committee have identified necessary - from the whispers it seems they’ve identified the right areas to reinforce.

Will be interesting to see which names start to crop up as concrete links in those positions now and who we actually get in. I suspect it’ll be a combination of prem experience and established quality i.e Maddison and then up and comers from abroad/lower leagues like Van de Ven and Vicario, with the odd player in between the criteria like Johnson.

A similar window to last and you’d be hard pressed to say Ange isn’t far off having the opportunity to put his team together and that’ll be when we’ll see whether he can take us up a level.
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,169
5,145
A similar window to last and you’d be hard pressed to say Ange isn’t far off having the opportunity to put his team together and that’ll be when we’ll see whether he can take us up a level.
You've reminded me of another point. The issue of his coaches. Be a welcome recognition that he sees the need for help at Prem level with his workload if we attract serious coaching talent in the summer. Proven experts in their field would be good. He's had great success at going to new clubs on his own up til now.But It would be comforting if he has top talent to call on imo. Dare I mention a set-piece coach for example ?

That last presser question 'What have you learnt this season' ? He was going to say something, but then plumped for 'Nothing mate, exactly as expected' . For me this is the opposite of the truth. He's learnt a good deal. I guess he feels he needs to say that rather than confess the reality, so it's understandable that keeping the club/fan's belief was his priority there.

He knows he cannot ride a series of defeats start of next season like he has recently and survive, so he'd better adapt and strengthen the team over the summer or he'll lose his position imo. Big summer for him and I think we will see a more effective and successful Spurs as a result.
 

Push & Run

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2018
253
373
I would love to know what PL managers think before playing Spurs. Most the 'lower' teams appear to wait for loss of possession by any of front 3 (which has been regularly predictable), and then a long ball out wide to put immediate pressure on a 2 man defence. Skilled sides like city appear confident in keeping to their normal game, but the other top teams are happy waiting for mistakes and have faith in quality players to punish. To me we are just too predictable whichever players play. Still I hope Ange proves me wrong which would not be the first time.
 

synththfc

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2017
3,745
26,788
Love his base philosophy of how football should be played.

I have concerns over how he implements that philosophy (both fullbacks inverting, leaving only 2 defenders when in possession) and the sustainability of it through a 50+ match season.

With that being said, the players seem to adore him and I love the way he speaks, plus we weren’t too bad overall this season. He’s earned another season minimum to show us that his implementation of his philosophy will do the business.

I’m not sure if I think it will, but I’m more than willing to give it a chance.
 

jakuba

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
180
593
I would love to know what PL managers think before playing Spurs. Most the 'lower' teams appear to wait for loss of possession by any of front 3 (which has been regularly predictable), and then a long ball out wide to put immediate pressure on a 2 man defence. Skilled sides like city appear confident in keeping to their normal game, but the other top teams are happy waiting for mistakes and have faith in quality players to punish. To me we are just too predictable whichever players play. Still I hope Ange proves me wrong which would not be the first time.
This has been my big criticism the second half of the season. Seemed like we were entirely reliant on getting into position to cut it back for the vast majority of our chances. Once teams figured how to reduce thats effectiveness (easily done when we wouldn’t create many chances any other way) we really struggled. Still to see a truly effective attacking performance since around January which does concern me a lot. We undoubtedly will need our attacking tactics to evolve as well as making any squad additions if we want to push on.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,748
39,154
I find I have a connection to the person speaking if they seem to have a connection to the club. That's why, despite speaking in riddles some times I could always listen to Poch. Conversely I never really listened to Redknapp because he never really seemed to be fully Spurs.

Maybe that's the problem, I don't really get that kind of vibe from Ange yet.
It's opinion. You can't force yourself to resonate with someone. I'm sure that you understand that people identify with Ange and his character resonates with them and people should accept that not everyone is the same. My only annoyance is with people who clearly don't identify with Ange sarcastically using the word "mate" when they are referring to him - that's pretty pathetic but otherwise, if the jury is out with some people - so be it.
 

RuskyM

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2011
7,429
25,072
I find I have a connection to the person speaking if they seem to have a connection to the club. That's why, despite speaking in riddles some times I could always listen to Poch. Conversely I never really listened to Redknapp because he never really seemed to be fully Spurs.

Maybe that's the problem, I don't really get that kind of vibe from Ange yet.
That's fair. I fully agree with you re Arry: it was usually self-promotion and self-serving stories, the kind we'd see a lot more of post-Poch.
 

Ray Ray

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2018
590
2,373
Needs all of next season as a minimum, then we judge him.

That doesn't mean he's immune to critiscm as I've certainly given my fair share over the corner situation , and long balls.

Let's all just back a manager to the hilt for once, and see where we go. We've seen there are no quick fixes, no shortcuts to winning a trophy. May as well ride it out with Ange and see what a team with HIS players can do.

COYS,
Daniel.
 

purplemonkey

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
158
835
I could listen to Ange to speak all day. A lot is made of his “philosophy” and whether he’s too dogmatic or naive, as if he’s somehow not cottoned on to the many truisms in football that are mindlessly recited by fans and the media - but man, he’s so self-aware and grounded that it’s actually impossible that he doesn’t see what we all see. He’s an erudite thinker and a lucid communicator that gets to the heart of the matter at every single question that’s thrown his way and nails the balance, nuance and intricacies that lie within. His analysis of any given situation is always spot on IMO even if it’s an unpopular opinion (as was the case post City) so I find it impossible not to put my trust in him every time I hear him speak.

Of course he’ll recognise that our defensive record isn’t good enough, that we have an issue on set pieces, that our attack needs upgrading and that many of our players aren’t fit for purpose. He conceded in the latest set of interviews that he will protect his players and staff at all costs and that he can’t give the full version of the truth at all times, but behind the scenes I trust that he’ll make the right judgements and take the right decisions to get us to where we need to be.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,396
3,464
This has been my big criticism the second half of the season. Seemed like we were entirely reliant on getting into position to cut it back for the vast majority of our chances. Once teams figured how to reduce thats effectiveness (easily done when we wouldn’t create many chances any other way) we really struggled. Still to see a truly effective attacking performance since around January which does concern me a lot. We undoubtedly will need our attacking tactics to evolve as well as making any squad additions if we want to push on.
I'm hoping this is one of the areas we are able to improve on this summer. Getting a winger who is capable of taking on defenders seems like something that would suit Ange's system well.

I just did a quick check and saw we only received two penalties all season in the league, which seems really low for the amount of action we seemed to have in the area, and some of the possession stats we were putting up. City and Arsenal both had 10, with Chelsea topping the list with 12. We could benefit from a bit more directness in the area perhaps.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
43,094
80,274
He's had a bit of a nightmare with attack though. Perisic and Soloman out injured early, Gil out for pre season and then by the time he's fit he needs time to find whether it can work with him which it hasn't. Richarlison in and out through injury. Son off to the Asia cup. Maddison injured and not the same since. Werner comes in and offers something but gets injured for the final run in. When you consider Kane being sold too the number of goals we've scored is impressive to say the least. Just imagine if we make a few quality attacking signings into the summer.
 

Nerine

Juicy corned beef
Jan 27, 2011
4,956
18,251
Thing is, if not Ange then who…?

We’ve tried everything else. The last thing that nearly brought us success was sticking with a manager. We’ve not done that since.
Let’s do that again.
 

ItsBoris

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,474
10,589
Honestly prior to the signings we made I was probably expecting top 6, after we plugged some really obvious holes, particularly in regard to a decent backup centre back and then comparing our squad with those we were competing with then I think top 4 would probably have been par.

Having said that, it's not really about where we finished more the fairly mediocre performances outside of the first 10 games.

For a lot of the season I haven't seen him able to turn round a fairly rudderless ship in terms of on field performances. Also I think the defensive performances generally have been way below the sum of the parts we have in our defenders.

You then get the 'well he needs the players he wants' refrain but you look at it and we've invested a lot in the squad over the past 3-5 years and generally had a very positive response from the fan base to our transfer business since Paratici has been involved.

Personally I think the squad is currently the strongest it's been for a long time (outside of a more reliable goalscorer) and yet the same message is coming out that we got for Jose and Conte - well he can't do it without another 5-6 of his players.

I suppose I'm just wary of another coach that's struggled to turn around mediocre performances for 20-30 odd games and can only succeed with a very select group of players.

Yeah but we also ripped open a big hole in the ship by selling Kane. Plus most of the players who have come in are very young and will take time to mature and get to grips with the league.

I think those first 10 games set the bar unreasonably high and because we couldn't keep jumping over it, it feels like regression. But I would argue where we are now is better than where we were a year ago. Despite losing, how we played the game against City I thought was a very positive indication of things going in the right direction. We were the better team in the first half and dominating the game against the best side in the world and probably the best team in PL history. And let down by a few poor moments at either end. If we can add to that by sharpening our teeth in attack a bit and maybe getting a really good defensive midfielder then I think we'll be able to play some incredible stuff.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
12,027
34,919
A lot of parallels i reckon. Beyond the 5th place finishes we were riddled with inconsistent performances just like we are now. Like this years wins against liverpool and utd we beat 2 of the 'big 6' in chelsea and arsenal in Pochs first year, but followed both results with defeats. We had a decent core of young players but like this year were exposed and took some beatings while we were trying to get to grips with a new coaches tactics, especially the big games (4-1 at city, 3 nil at chelsea and utd). Even that Villa game that Poch felt saved his job was followed by defeat at home to stoke.
I just hope the parallels continue and Ange gets a summer window of similar quality to Pochs second summer where we saw Alli, Toby, Trippier and Sonny join the ranks.
Dele signed in the prior January window but we loaned him back to MK Dons, so hopefully Bergvall is our Dele.
 
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