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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,090
29,760
Yeah he's stuck with those has beens like Udogie, VdV, Porro, Sarr, Kulusevski and Johnson.
Yea because im referring to them when I said players who have no future here:cautious:

We have a youth team who have made the final of the U21 PL league and none of them have had a sniff. Whilst Skipp, Hojberg, Lo Celso, Royal, Gil and etc. have got a lot of minutes despite being clear none will be here next season
 

FuturistiC123

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2021
176
754
While 5th is better than I anticipated, we really blew it in regards to CL. Twenty six pts from the first 10 games, 40 from the last 28, just under 1.5 pts per game, almost 50 per cent less. Sure, we had injuries and suspensions, but so did other clubs. Villa played at least 14 games more than us and travelled all over the place. We had stacks of time to fix our problems with set pieces, but we practically left it until the last day.

Ange said they had been working with Skipp to cover Udogie. Why? VDV had experience there, and should have been played there, giving Dragusin more game time. Again too little too late. Was playing Sarr as a false 9 a good idea, surely Kulu should have been played against City, he came on and tested the keeper twice, and split their defence wide open with his pass to Romero, that led to the keepers injury. The penny finally dropped and he played there today and scored twice. Just the simple act of preventing goals from set pieces would have seen us in the CL, Everton noticed the problem in our 2-1 win at home, when Vic made a desperate last minute save. They saw how reluctant he was to deal with it, and capitalized on it at their ground, so did City who employed the tactic successfully in the cup.

Ange is a breath of fresh air, but he needs to be more proactive, IMO.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
12,059
35,140
Pochs. His started iffy then got stronger once he found his team. Also had good runs in the cups and got to the League Cup final. I also remember going to most games at the Lane that season, and you felt something was happening the moment that Mason goal went in against... Forest was it?

Ange started almost too well, but we dropped off drastically and binned off the cups. There's no reason not to be positive considering where we finished in the league, but I dunno. Jury's out a bit for me.
In The FA Cup we got knocked out of the same round in Poch's 1st season as we did this season, only we lost to Leicester who were bottom at the time, not the best team in the league like this season. In the League Cup, prior to the final, we only played 1 PL team, and that was to an off form Newcastle, who finished 15th that season.

Also, it may feel like we finished the season in the league strong that season and poor this season, but in the last 10 games, we only got 1 point more in Poch's first season and we only had to play 1 team from the top 3 in those last 10 games that year vs all 3 this year.
 

coy-spurs1882

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,177
11,070
I just don't understand why he waits until 85 min to bring on Scarlett and Moore when the team has already switched off. Could have bring them on (and Donley also) when we are 3-0 up instead of Skipp and Emerson
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
22,899
83,049
I think he has had a good first season, the teams around us have been poor but overall good with things to improve on

I do find our fanbase infuriating, the fanbase turns in to a cult when there is a new "messiah", ever since AVB, there's been this attitude to which you can say no wrong of a manager

Ange has been good but imo failed with giving younger players a chance. Arteta played the younger guys and took the hit. Whereas I don't understand why we have been playing players with no future here

We lost 5 of the last 7, it would have been more beneficial and uplifting to see some younger players with the first team and see if we learn anything new
Actually don't think this is accurate about Arteta.

Emery had already blooded through Nelson, Maitland-Niles, Willock, Saka, Smith-Rowe (mostly Europe) and Nkethia.

The latter 2 were loaned out but all of Nelson, Willock and Maitland-Niles started Emery's first game in his last season.

A few months later and Saka has established himself as a starter and Martinelli was making the bench.

The only one who wasn't really getting much of a look in was Smith-Rowe but he'd been loaned out anyway.

Ljungberg was the one who started to play him.

Arteta did start all of Willock, Smith-Rowe and Saka in his first game but Smith Rowe was back on the bench the following week.

For the next few games, Arteta tried to get Pepe going, made Aubameyang captain and played all the experienced players like Luiz, Lacazette and Ozil.

Saka was back on the bench or being subbed at HT.

This was the team he stuck with for a while.

Lacazette up top.



He then gave Nketiah a run out after he had done well in the cups.

But! He was back out again a few games later cause it didn't work.

This was their last game of the season.

Lacazette back up top.



He then signed Willian and Gabriel and this is how he started the following season.

Screenshot_20240519_233204_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20240519_233504_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20240519_233631_Chrome.jpg

Again he stuck with this until Aubameyang started playing up and then he started playing Saka more regularly.

It was deep into his second season when he started with the kids and more so in his 3rd season.

Let's be fair to Ange.

He may use the kids more next season when we are in all comps and the system is more stable to use them but let's not exaggerate what Arteta did and beat Ange with that stick cause its not true.

All of Donley, Moore, Dorrington, Hall have been with the first team and Scarlett has played more than Amy other coach had given them.

Arteta already had those players I mentioned in the first team thanks to Emery and Ljungberg.
 
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KirstyG

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2015
1,215
4,924
Right. Happy with Ange and where he wants to take us. Having the courage to really go for it is going to be a challenge for us lot with all the emotional scaring but a good start next season would help.

yes we were sloppy, yes ppl just think he was sitting there twiddling his thumbs when they were shopping loads from set pieces. Throwing cup games etc But honestly think this guy is a proper COACH. We’ve had a lot of manager types and they are very directive. That’s why you get more stilted albeit more disciplined patterns of plays.

I work in Learning and Development and one of the jokes about what coaching is, is this “watching people fkn up and then asking what they should’ve done”. It’s about the long term game of learning. It needs to be balanced though esp in a competitive environment. But to get people to build true consistency they need space to fail.

I think Ange saw (like all coachy types) every game, every mishap as a learning situation so can build what he wants. It comes across as stubborn and frustrating (anyone who has been “coached” will tell you that as they bang on about same things over and over “why did this happen?/what could you do?” - you are like “just FKN TELL ME!”. That’s super hard from us fans too because we don’t see this. We just see stubbornness and inaction but overall with a youngish team it’s effective long term and it’s what Poch alluded too.

It’s not they don’t care about cups but it’s part of process for building that team that go out there and perform all the time. Builds mental resilience too (hence why lots of late goals etc). We deffo needed to finish on a high and although going to Aus is super odd straight after.

Hopefully it builds the bonds of the final high and we crack on in off season and like Ange says “come back better”.
 
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Ron Burgundy

SC Supporter
Jun 19, 2008
7,971
24,500
I'm positive on Ange. I think there are some clear areas to work on this summer, and he might even want to bring in a specialist coach to deal with them.

But generally, for a first season I think it's been a pretty good one.

- Practise set pieces
- Add some players with some more threat in attack
- add a bit of depth

...and there's no reason why we can't be noticeably better next year
 

Russ1201

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
3,520
6,653
I just don't understand why he waits until 85 min to bring on Scarlett and Moore when the team has already switched off. Could have bring them on (and Donley also) when we are 3-0 up instead of Skipp and Emerson
Part of me thinks he brought them on was to put them on the shop window espicially Royal.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,362
57,984
I would have settled very happily for Europa League at the start of the season, so in my book we've done pretty well. As predicted by many, we did play gung ho football, we did make a lot of mistakes but we also scored a lot in a season where we lost the best striker of the lot.

If there's any criticism of Ange it is for the reluctance to change things around set pieces and protecting Vicario a bit. Dragusin eventually comes in (only through injury to Udogie) and immediately takes up that role. Kulusevski also showed today that he can play that floating 9 role a lot better than some of Ange's previous choices.

It's no big deal though because we will recruit in the Summer and I have no doubt we'll be significantly better next year. We'll be in the hunt for trophies once we get a bit more squad depth sorted out and once some of our youngsters get their chance.
 

allatsea

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
9,174
16,561
I'm positive on Ange. I think there are some clear areas to work on this summer, and he might even want to bring in a specialist coach to deal with them.

But generally, for a first season I think it's been a pretty good one.

- Practise set pieces
- Add some players with some more threat in attack
- add a bit of depth

...and there's no reason why we can't be noticeably better next year
Totally agree plus Ange will now have an excellent idea of who he wants in his First Team squad for next season and who amongst his coaches could be improved upon.
 

Dov67

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2005
3,401
10,589
I dont think Ange is the type of manager who demands £100m players. But if he identifies a £50m player, FFS please get him THAT player and not a cheaper second or third choice alternative. If Levy, does that, then I get good vibes from him and we might actually do something.

The only other thing i ask / demand is that we take the cups seriously, especially the Europa. If we bin them and play squad players for sake of the money that comes from getting 4th spot I will lose interest again very quickly.

In Conte’s final season, the team selection and result against Sheff Utd in the cup ended the season for me.

by next season it will be 17 f****g years since we won anything. A trophy, any trophy is FAR FAR more important than getting into the CL
 

leffe186

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2004
5,398
1,931
No season is a free hit in the PL.

Yup. And I think a lot of our fans’ reactions during this season make it clear that it wasn’t a free hit. Just look at the response to the Fulham cup game.

I trust him. Feel like the time to ultimately judge is not even next season but the one after. If we’re looking problematic then I’ll be worried.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
43,328
81,440
Yea because im referring to them when I said players who have no future here:cautious:

We have a youth team who have made the final of the U21 PL league and none of them have had a sniff. Whilst Skipp, Hojberg, Lo Celso, Royal, Gil and etc. have got a lot of minutes despite being clear none will be here next season
Well you said he doesn't play youngsters which he does. As for playing those who won't be here next season , he plays who he feels are the best to get the win simple as that.
 

PCozzie

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
4,484
20,672
Found this quite interesting. I think the first three months of the season might have held us a little higher in the graphic than it feels we should be, but over the entirety of the season we sit a little below middle (as expected) on set piece goals, scored and conceded.

It's an argument done to death over the last couple of months on here so I don't want to repeat talking points, but that is a stat ripe for improvement for the cost of the salary of a set piece coach which could net us maybe another 10 points without compromising any of the principles which the manager stands by.

1716192855505.png
 

robotsonic

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
2,631
11,906
Started the season convinced that I would remain relaxed and realistic on performances and expectations this season, and I think despite some obviously very frustrating moments I just about did OK.

Will be a lot harder next season to keep the same level head if some of the same frustrations remain, but will stick at it. We as a club absolutely need to get through another season of working toward an ideal and building a squad for it, because it does take time, however much that is a shit.

We'll not get anything starting from scratch again. Just more years to wait until we win something. We're not operating of Harry Kane's career schedule anymore, so we need to (unless the doors absolutely blow off) give Ange another season and more before we can fairly judge if he's been a success. If it's not working after three summer windows then I'll start to lose to belief in him, but will keep the faith as best I can until then.
 

C1w8

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2011
648
1,234
Comparing this to pochs first season with us (I’m not talking about the manager poch is now), is there more optimism now or then? Finding it hard to remember back that far

For me there's more optimism now. I think the team feels like it has more pieces already in the building that will/should be in and around the squad making positive contributions for the next 2-3+ years if we, and they, can push on. All of our defensive line and GK, Sarr, Johnson, Bentancour (hopefully imo), kulu an dragusin (maybe to a lesser extent), Richarlison if he can stay fit again personally i like though has his doubters and injury concerns. These players also feel like they have higher ceilings than the squad Poch had 14/15 based on what theyve shown us. Not saying these guys are good enough to win the league but we could definitely become a much better and more consistent team with them at the core.

The squad that Poch had felt more piecemeal and young Poch was yet to grow into the manager he became, vs Ange who is older and comes with a lot of self belief and strength in character which has been clear from the start.
 

IfiHadTheWings

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2013
3,991
12,760
Good first season i think, a lot of challenges but progress made on the prior.

i want full strength in the domestic cups next year, can play some youngsters/fringe players in an amongst a core of our 11 but i don't want to see wholesale changes as we end up looking like they have just met over the park.

this club needs a trophy.
 
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