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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

ohtottenham!

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2013
7,528
13,126
There is definitely a cultural issue that needs adressing at the fan level though. A mind set has crept in over the years that basically says we want to behave like a big club, but we know ultimately we will dissapoint. I've seen too many fans rock up to matches expecting the worst to happen and thus there is always this level of unnease, of flakiness.

By contrast, the "fanaticism" of Liverpool supporters is ridiculed here and yes often I agree, but the sweetspot has to be somewhere in between. I know every paying fan has the right to expres their opinions how they (legally) see fit, but we asa fan group don't even create a cauldron of us vs the world at home. We should look at ourselves as much as looking at the team.

We say it ourselves, the fans don't change, the team does. So if we are the constant, it is up to us to make sure THFC is a date to whince at seeing on the calender. Irrespective of how the team plays, WE should be performing better. Yeah I know we get caught up in the performance of the players etc... but frankly what we showed as a supporter group against Chelsea, was the exception, whereas it should be the norm.

I see a lot mor football in Germany these days vs back home, but it's like going Mainz. Other than the "noise brigade" that you get at any German stadium, the Mainz fans are more akin to us. Clap, sit, mostly moan at how they will ultimately F it up. At bigger teams, like Leipzig or Dortmund, or maybe more telling, Frankfurt... it's more akin to Liverpool. It doesn't matter where they are on the current form scale. THis is our stadium, you are in our house. Don't care we are losing 4-0 AGAIN. Players change, but we don't! SO make it count, show rivals what it is like to come to THFC, make the players want that feeling and be fuelled by our passion.

We are waiting for it to happen, but it should be us MAKING it happen.
That is for me what Ange is driving at, at least the portion that is "aimed" at the fans.
I'm trying to imagine Enic and Levy at the helm at Liverpool. Don't think they'd have lasted a quarter of a century.
 

Bluto Blutarsky

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2021
16,240
74,834
I think I have spotted one of the issues with Spurs' supporters - its amazing how quickly, and easily, some will roll over and accept that they are to blame for the club's losing ways and culture. Its not that the players or the manager aren't good enough, or put in enough effort - its that the fans don't believe in them....
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
19,618
56,173
So his and the team's sporting integrity has been questioned by some as they are suggesting they tried harder for certain games than others? Is there any wonder why a very proud competitive man who has won things everywhere he has been would snap at that in the heat of a game where the fans of his side wanted to lose said game just to have a CHANCE at stopping their rivals from winning the league?

To suggest we didn't try v Arsenal and Liverpool is laughable. We were an offside from 1-1 v Arsenal and started brightly at Anfield. We also scored two goals in each when losing. So I'd say they didn't stop fighting, even if they made mistakes which led to the concession of the goals.

Ange himself said there would be bumps in the road after the great start. So imagine my shock that things haven't gone perfectly and we haven't won the league! The guy wants to win EVERY match regardless of who the opponent is and what the consequences are. He wants the players and everyone involved within the club to have that same mentality and it's something I have demanded from this club for years.
 
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McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
13,404
48,579
Exactly

He said very very clearly, things that have come to light in the last 48 hours. Not the last 90+ minutes or during the game, the last 48 hours!!!

If he's been walking around the training ground or stadium pre match and heard employee's talking this way, and/or heard fans on the radio and Sky etc being interviewed saying they want to lose then the reaction in the ground will have been amplified to him.
Yep, and I think it's quite understandable that it's been grating on him for a couple of days now, with a small section of fans at the game being the straw that broke his back.

As I said before, he demands that everyone buys in to what he's doing and over the past few games, that been obvious during matches.
He's been a lot more animated on the touchline, bellowing at players to do what he's told them, whereas before he was content to just watch and see what they would do.

So yeah, I think last night's outburst wasn't just about last night, or even the last 48 hours, I think his frustration has been building for a while and last night it came to a head.

The club now needs to back him and see this through.
 

Dougal

Staff
Jun 4, 2004
60,433
131,114
I'm trying to imagine Enic and Levy at the helm at Liverpool. Don't think they'd have lasted a quarter of a century.
Liverpool act far more entitled that I think we ever could because they have a steady stream of trophies to back it up and all fans believe Liverpool will continue to pick up trophies. Meanwhile the general view of us is that we’ll fuck things up. We lose any entitlement we may be clinging on to. The feeling I got in Madrid before the final was we were turning up to Liverpool’s final. It was horrible. The inferiority complex that surrounds this club won’t change until we can get across that line. And we’re relying on luck for that because Levy won’t push us over. It’s a long list of cliches. Speculate to accumulate, Catch 22. But we’re on the wrong side of glory and will continue to stay there under Levy. All the managers we’ve had back this up.
 

ohtottenham!

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2013
7,528
13,126
I think I have spotted one of the issues with Spurs' supporters - its amazing how quickly, and easily, some will roll over and accept that they are to blame for the club's losing ways and culture. Its not that the players or the manager aren't good enough, or put in enough effort - its that the fans don't believe in them....
...or most importantly, the ownership if we're talking decades of failure.
 

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
13,404
48,579
I practically turned inside-out cringing when I read that THST had offered to explain the rivalry to Ange. What on earth were they thinking?! "Actually, Ange, here's why we're right and you're wrong" when it's not even clear who he was talking about in the first place.

The backroom staff should know better, and they should know Ange better after being around him for a year - of course a suggestion that he should throw the game, no matter how light-hearted they thought it was, would go down like a bag of cold sick. And it sounded like there were some gobshites sat directly behind the bench that were winding him up for the duration of the game. Then the fans (or enough of them) celebrated when we conceded and suddenly sprang to life to sing songs and "support" the team when we were 2 nil down. Put all of it together and it's no wonder he was seething after the match.

But for the Trust to turn around and say "if you like, we'll sit you down and help you understand why we don't like our rivals"... it's just... ugh. We're our own worst enemies a lot of the time, which probably directly reinforces what Ange was saying.
The Trust really do have a habit of making themselves look like utter twats at times and that latest "statement" is so embarrassing.
 

purplemonkey

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
158
836
I’ve been reflecting on the game in the overall context of our season and I can’t help but think back to the Chelsea drubbing in November as a reference point. There was a lot riding on both games, there was the notion of pride and bragging rights at stake against our biggest rivals, there were conflicting emotions heading into each fixture (Poch returning for the first time while emotions towards him were still raw) and there was a significant fallout from both games as the manager’s post match comments came under heavy scrutiny.

The contrast couldn’t be bigger. We got battered by Chelsea but the players and the fans were unmistakably “all in” at that point, even in the face of humiliation against our rivals and a typically self-inflicted implosion that completely derailed our season. Even neutrals applauded the sense of collective identity, pride and unity at the club. Fast forward six months, our final home game of the season (where that bond and mutual appreciation should be stronger than ever) and we have fans and reportedly staff that don’t want us to win a game of football in fear of banter from our rivals, completely losing sight of the bigger picture. The players are on a run of dreadful form playing with none of the same style, confidence and conviction as we did playing with 9 men vs Chelsea. That feeling that we are building towards something has virtually disappeared.

Ange has to take some responsibility for that but I think it’s easy to understand his disappointment and frustration. People think he lost control of his emotions and overstepped the mark post match but I think his message was deliberate and needed to be said. Looks at Ange’s quotes following the Chelsea game and you’ll see the importance he places on his messaging. He even uses some of the same terminology, which shows the consistency in his thinking and how far we as a club have fallen away from the standards that he believed he was setting early on:

“I think the important part is...you don't want those periods to come, but when they do come is when I can have the most impact. All eyes are on me: what I do, what decisions I make, how I talk, how I behave. Internally, externally - everyone is looking.

“As much as you don't want to be in these situations, bizarrely I really enjoy it. Because I know what strong beliefs I have in the way I want to do things and now everyone will look and see exactly what I'm all about and what I want from players, staff, people in the club, people outside the club.

“If we can navigate this period like I have done at other clubs it becomes an important foundation and learning tool for what we want to become”.

On a night where everything that could go wrong did appear to do so for Tottenham, Postecoglou has opened up on what he said to his coaching staff following the heavy defeat.

“As flat as we were because we lost the game, you don't like losing, then we knew the fallout and what it would do for us, I said to the coaches, ‘This is a great opportunity we've got. We've got guys here who are now all-in on what we want to do’”.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,396
3,464
I don't really expect him to come out with it but if he truly thinks there is certain things holding us back then i'd rather us hear it (club and fans) rather than an outburst like Conte and then walking it back to appease the top brass.

i have no doubt he is correct in his thinking, we can all see we are being held back by the culture around the club.
I think the problem is that there isn't just one problem. So trying to call out everything in a post-match press conference isn't really feasible. And it won't have any lasting impact on anything anyway. He is adamant that he isn't going to tell fans how they should feel/act, so his option is to fix the root causes wherever he can, then the rest of it falls into place from there.

His comments about "inside, outside" and "48 hours" makes me think that he has been surprised that losing a game is even an option. And not just if it's being talked about by staff, but having seen how prevalent it has been in the media. I wonder if Ange sees the media coverage as a symptom of pretty much the whole country thinking Spurs are also-rans, which itself is a symptom of us as a club/fan base believing the same.

I'm certainly of the view that competitiveness on the pitch has to be the primary driver of everything, but I'm actually quite happy that Ange has been surprised by those 48 hours. It shows his motivation to win, and also his awareness beyond the playing staff. I think it also shows the he is aware of the impact the crowd can have as the 12th man... it isn't the thing that makes us play well, but it might just be the edge we need when we are in a title race.

So for me, his comments and general attitude these past few weeks have been of a man who is aiming to win the title. And not just in the generic way that everybody has that objective, but in a manner where anything less than that represents failure. No excuses. No bullshit. Just win.
 

Albertbarich

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2020
5,549
20,935
I think I have spotted one of the issues with Spurs' supporters - its amazing how quickly, and easily, some will roll over and accept that they are to blame for the club's losing ways and culture. Its not that the players or the manager aren't good enough, or put in enough effort - its that the fans don't believe in them....
I've noticed on here that some comfort themselves by blaming the board, some like to dig out players which is why Emerson can go from a hero overcoming all the naysayers to a Sunday league player and others like to dig out other fans. It's all the same though , just trying to justify a reason in your own head as to why we aren't winning things. I myself tend to not think about football in between games if things aren't going well , I get annoyed at myself for getting wound up by it.
 

SuperLuka

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2011
532
1,514
I think the problem is that there isn't just one problem. So trying to call out everything in a post-match press conference isn't really feasible. And it won't have any lasting impact on anything anyway. He is adamant that he isn't going to tell fans how they should feel/act, so his option is to fix the root causes wherever he can, then the rest of it falls into place from there.

His comments about "inside, outside" and "48 hours" makes me think that he has been surprised that losing a game is even an option. And not just if it's being talked about by staff, but having seen how prevalent it has been in the media. I wonder if Ange sees the media coverage as a symptom of pretty much the whole country thinking Spurs are also-rans, which itself is a symptom of us as a club/fan base believing the same.

I'm certainly of the view that competitiveness on the pitch has to be the primary driver of everything, but I'm actually quite happy that Ange has been surprised by those 48 hours. It shows his motivation to win, and also his awareness beyond the playing staff. I think it also shows the he is aware of the impact the crowd can have as the 12th man... it isn't the thing that makes us play well, but it might just be the edge we need when we are in a title race.

So for me, his comments and general attitude these past few weeks have been of a man who is aiming to win the title. And not just in the generic way that everybody has that objective, but in a manner where anything less than that represents failure. No excuses. No bullshit. Just win.
No one should be surprised. Every other club's fans (except perhaps 2 or 3 clubs that have won trophies very recently) would actually exactly the same.
 

nico97531

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2006
614
991
It does sound a lot like an addict's complaint though;

"Just the one more...."

And that is what Ange is upset about.

And he appears to be right.
Don’t think it’s just the one more, if it happens again next year, there will be just as many fans wanting to lose. if it happens to any other club, there will be just as many fans of that particular club being exactly the same. I don’t think that proves him right or can ever be changed when there’s such fierce rivalry involved.

being upset with a portion of the fan base which some of them did went too far, but conveniently forgetting that he and the team had lost THE most important game of the season with the whole stadium behind them to set-piece goals he doesn’t think is a problem. A game if we had gotten something could have avoided this whole episode, where’s the winning mentality then? Didn’t see him pointing fingers at him self in the post game interview.

He’s asked for fan’s patience and understanding as this is a process during a rebuild, which is fine, I think most if not all the fans are behind him and the team but then he also needs to understand that for at least a portion of the fans, me included, that when our team has no chance of competing then the next best thing is to make sure arsenal isn’t winning it either.

If he doesn’t like it then the easiest thing he can do is to make sure the fans are not being put in that situation in the first place. None of this would be happening if the team is challenging, which is what he did in Celtic, which is why he doesn’t have to experience it there.
 

hop22

Active Member
Feb 16, 2019
72
128
Pep finished 3rd in his first season at City, Klopp finished 4th in his first full season at Liverpool. We should be more patient and back Ange.

And of course: the upcoming transfer window will show, if Lecy backs him. In comparison to this season we need at least five more players that could compete with the regular starters.
 
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