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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
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49,981
Ange in the last 48 hours has created a shitstorm all of his own making.

Firstly, whilst he's the manager, he's been at the club for less than a calendar year. He is not in a position to understand what is important to fans. I love Tottenham, but I also hate Arsenal. I believed that top four was unattainable, mainly due to the shit performances we've seen over the last 2 months. Therefore, my personal priority as a fan, and I'm entitled to have any opinion I want, was that I'd rather Arsenal lose the league title.

What Ange does not understand is that if we took points off City and won Arsenal the league, that would be the narrative. Arteta lifting the title and their fans singing about us. Like they still sing about winning the league at the Lane, they'd be singing about last night for decades. That would be hurtful.

Therefore, I wanted City to win the league more than I wanted us to have an outside chance of CL qualification on the final day. That's not a small or fragile mentality, its a consequence of them having a better team than us right now. The fact that we haven't won anything, isn't because the fans are fragile, its because we've only been the 5th best team in the league this year.

Where was his winning mentality when he played a second string XI for the EFL Cup? Was that the fans fault too? How about when we lost to City in the Cup? Was that our fault too?

I also don't think we deserve CL the way we've played and as we have a "fragile" squad, I don't think it would help us. That's a separate matter though.

For Ange to then go on the attack, shows that he doesn't truly understand the club he is at. He should also be careful, as the fans have, for the most part, been positive about his first season despite the shitshow since January. And now the headlines are all about how ****y spurs fans are, because of what he said. He's thrown us under the bus and he's talking bollocks too. Did we lose to Newcastle because of the fans too? How about being 3-0 down to Arsenal at home?

So set pieces aren't an issue, but the fans not creating a good atmosphere for one game was? It's the first time I've questioned whether he understands where he is and the importance of the fans. I don't want to be told off by anyone. I want what I want, for the reasons that I want. His job depends on our acceptance of him, not the other way around. If he doesn't like it, he can piss off.
I've given this a like as completely get where you're coming from but Ange is tasked with winning and making our club successful, all he's doing with his comments is getting us as fans to think about how we support the team and trying to change our mindset/mentality to want to win, I agree with everything you've said and it was a unique situation last night but I really see Ange's comments as a positive and a bit of a rocket going into the final game and next season which isn't a bad thing at all.

I don't think its a s storm, I think most fans will understand where he is coming from and its actually just a well played use of the media by Ange in terms of our long-term growth.

He's no directly called any players of fans out, he's just clevery and subtly getting us to think that our first thought should be to cheer the team towards winning but as you say its the chicken and the egg as we need the team to consitently be good for us to believe we can win and keep getting behind the team.

Last night was a one off fluke timing, if that game had been played 5-6 games ago it would've had a completely different atmosphere and narrative, very unlikely to happen again.

As you say last time they won it at our gaff we heard about it decades later, its down to the club (board and manager and players) to elevate the team towards winning things in which case matches like last night would've been more about us than Arsenal.
 

TheBlueRooster

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2005
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4,716
Never been more certain that Ange is our man. I agree with everything he said and share his frustration. I actually thought the crowd started off quite well and I thought the references to Arsenal were more in defiance than anything else. I joined in to start with because I saw it as ‘fuck Arsenal, we’re going to play to win anyway!’ That quickly changed though when I saw fans actively frustrated when city missed an early chance and I thought this doesn’t feel right. I also noticed many fans wearing sky blue spurs shirts to try and show their support for city. As I’ve said before, I get not wanting Arsenal to win the league but now is the time to become bigger than that. It was an unprecedented evening, let’s hope we’re not in that position again. Back Ange and let’s truly become one of the big boys! COYS!
Agree. It seems the hatred for them is greater than the love for us. I couldn't care less who wins the league, I want us to finish as high as possible even if CL was an outside chance. I'd prefer City to win the league but if that's cost us a place in a better competition I couldn't care less if Woolwich win it.
 

Mellow Man Ace

Active Member
Feb 23, 2013
14
103
Agree with @Trix but I also think what Ange is upset about is lots of fans wanting to lose. That’s different from playing poorly or not putting in enough effort or not defending set pieces well. Wanting to lose is a different level.
I respect your opinion and we will have to agree to disagree.

I think players not putting in a shift for our glorious club is the worst display of disrespect. I don’t expect them to win every game but I do expect them to put in max effort.

That wasn’t on display several times this and last season and is far more important to me than some fans wanting us to lose.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
20,019
49,981
Thing is though, he was telling who he thought needed to be told.

Up at Newcastle it's the players that needed to be told and I expect he very much told them. Just because he didn't tell the world via the press doesn't mean it didn't happen. Last night it was about telling the collective. Fans, Coaches, Board members, players etc. He's hardly going to do that on an individual basis or by getting them all together in the dressing room.
Spot on. I think its just very clever use of the media.

Ange seems a mix of Alex Ferguson, Pep, Jose and Redknapp in his media style, I really like it. He's honest but also clever but also assertive and also manipulative all with the single goal of getting everyone aligned to try and help us win things.

Even how earlier in the season he kept saying "Aren't we still in the title race" to the journalists, he knew deep down we weren't but he wanted to create that narrative just like he's creating the one that Top4 isn't and shouldn't be regarded as a trophy.

I wasn't sure what he meant by "I think I need to go back to the drawing board" that bit confused me a bit, I'm guessing he just meant he needs to have a bit of a re-think overall as the clubs culture and base is more fragile that he realised so he needs to re-think how he changes that 'inside and outside'.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
19,820
56,610
Thing is we'll never know, i am sure there will be a lot of chest puffing if Palace beat Villa on Sunday in here and all over the site but the job is done and Villa are now on the beach with CL secured so the game will play out differently.
Let me ask you this. What if Arsenal win the league on Sunday? Was the loss worth it then?
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
20,019
49,981
I think we should all just move on from this but I'll explain my fandom.

I love spurs, have done for ,40 years. I can't go anymore due to geography/money but ims till as obsessed as I was when I was 8.

Part of that has always been hating that lot. Never buy JVC, I didn't eat a KitKat for years when Campbell was in the advert, don't sing Graham's name etc etc. As the old saying goes, ' I hate arsenal because I'm a spurs fan, I hate Chelsea because I'm human'.

Growing up In Tottenham and then Herts I was surrounded by them, we have nearly always been second best and they made your life a misery. So smug, always getting one up on us. And I'm my 40 years I've had the 91 semi final but even then they won the league didn't they? , the Carling cup semi which was really magical, and the porch/post wenger era where even despite us being better we still won't nothing. Basically being spurs has always been hard, we rarely have the bragging rights or the memories they do.

Now you can look at last night anyway you want. It's your fandom and you're entitled to live it and feel the way you do. But whilst I wasn't cheering against us I make no apology for wanting that lot to suffer, for wanting to make sure they don't get another great memory whilst laughing at us.

Its not small time, it's football rivalry and in that unique circumstance any club would have had the same going on. Well any club with a hated rival. I remember their champion league final, they were singing about Tottenham in it for a reason. They hate us and we hate them.

Were not unique, we're not better or worse than any set of football fans and no we don't have a winning mentality because we never win but our mentality has bugger all to do with the teams performance. All the fans can do is turn up , which they do. Every home game a sell out and the away support is second to none. The rest is down to the club. A club that has consistently let down it's fanbase by the way.

Its a shame this discourse is carrying on. I felt his tactics last night were brilliant, Madders looks like himself, Micky a brilliant left back alternative, radu looked great, Vic didn't look shaky from corners (remember it was city that started it) and Mikey Moore made his debut. So many positives.

If Ange has an issue with the fans not only do I disagree but I think he is fighting a losing fight but I'm sure that was just out of frustration from the very odd build up/circumstances but what is really worrying/relevant is the issue within . What's the problem? Is it staff? He defended the players, is it the board? That's what we should be worried about because those are tangible things that effects his ability to do his job.

I hope the chairman backs him and I don't just mean financially. If Ange needs to lose long-term members of staff then so be it
I think if he was at Celtic and they were 4th or whatever it is in Scotland just before the CL spaces and they were miles off top 2 pts wise with 2 games to go and Celtic were playing lets say Hearts and if Celtic beat or drew with Hearts they'd effectively be handing Rangers the title and the only gain would be a 5% chance of CL and securing of EL football, I can guarantee you the Celtic fans would've acted exactly the way ours did, exactly the same.

It was just a freak rare situation, lets move on from it and lets hope we can be at the top of the table trying to win things in which case the answer will always be 100% behind Spurs, last night was a freak but I see where Ange is coming from and where our fans are coming from.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
43,326
81,435
On the plus side, it was nice to see us setting up slightly differently. I thought we played really well last night and looked excellent. It really exposed our lack of quality up front though, so signing a new CF is an absolute must IMHO. It's a moot point, but if we had Kane playing last night, I think we would have won that, in fact I think it could have been a title deciding game. Que Sera, Sera.
Kane is of course world class and we won't sign a world class striker but I do think even Richarlison up top would have made a big difference. So another high quality forward to compete for that spot would be ideal.
 

IfiHadTheWings

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2013
3,991
12,760
Let me ask you this. What if Arsenal win the league on Sunday? Was the loss worth it then?
Of course not, what sort of question is that?

the whole situation was shit, built on the premise that considering City's struggles with us that a win for them last night should see them home and dry.

if Arsenal win the league the fans (like me) who preferred the result last night will have egg on our faces, simple as that.
 

Guernman

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2013
1,557
8,048
Agree, although I think we had more than an outside chance of 4th if we won yesterday.
Exactly, the outside chance was beating City and the team showed that was possible with yesterday's performance. Beating Sheffield Utd is as high a probability as you can get in football, and I'd say there is a pretty good chance that Palace will beat Villa.
 

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
12,606
40,343
I just read that since November we've got fewer points than Everton. That's not very good considering we have superior players in every position.
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,605
43,403
Good lord, with a game like that with the unique circumstances I can see both side of the argument, think a lot more is being made out of this than needed to be.

This is it in a nutshell. Anyone trying to tie this in to anything bigger than it is is on a fools errand IMHO. It was a freak circumstance and is not indicative of any bigger picture.

Trying to tie this in to 'small club mentality/lack of winning mentality' is just confirmation bias towards pre-existing opinions.

I totally understand Ange's frustration yesterday, the whole thing was a total circus, and I fully believe he is the right man for the job and needs to be backed. I think his comments were a bit misguided but we all lash out when we are angry/frustrated.
 

IfiHadTheWings

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2013
3,991
12,760
I just read that since November we've got fewer points than Everton. That's not very good considering we have superior players in every position.
That is why it is ridiculous to suggest that is only the fans last night who lack the mentality because we put in half a performance when the pressure was off.

the whole club lacks mentality and have done ever since i have supported them.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
19,820
56,610
Of course not, what sort of question is that?

the whole situation was shit, built on the premise that considering City's struggles with us that a win for them last night should see them home and dry.

if Arsenal win the league the fans (like me) who preferred the result last night will have egg on our faces, simple as that.
I ask it, because everyone who wanted us to lose made it seem as though it was guaranteed, which it isn't. I understand had it been final day and that was it. But both City and Arsenal have one game left. Arsenal can still win the league and we be left without 4th (maybe even Europa god forbid). Would make us an even bigger laughing stock than we already are.
We lost to a better team, in a better run of form.

We lost out on a CL spot when we dropped points at Fulham, Everton, Wolves, West Ham etc.
I'm talking about those who wanted us to lose just to spite Arsenal. If Arsenal win the league then the banter they wanted to avoid will come back two fold.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
19,820
56,610
That is why it is ridiculous to suggest that is only the fans last night who lack the mentality because we put in half a performance when the pressure was off.

the whole club lacks mentality and have done ever since i have supported them.
Ange literally said INSIDE AND OUTSIDE of the club. He wasn't on about just the fans. The fans last night are what tipped him over the edge.
 

Danny1

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
5,780
18,077
So people have an issue with Ange wanting to win and being pissed off when we lose? Personally don't see a single thing wrong with what he said and I want him to have the time to turn us into winners.
 

IfiHadTheWings

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2013
3,991
12,760
I ask it, because everyone who wanted us to lose made it seem as though it was guaranteed, which it isn't. I understand had it been final day and that was it. But both City and Arsenal have one game left. Arsenal can still win the league and we be left without 4th (maybe even Europa god forbid). Would make us an even bigger laughing stock than we already are.

I'm talking about those who wanted us to lose just to spite Arsenal. If Arsenal win the league then the banter they wanted to avoid will come back two fold.
Yes but sometimes you make a deal with the devil and it bites you on the backside, yesterday was a situation nobody wanted to be put in.

for what its worth although i made my feelings clear i was not jumping around celebrating City's goals and was overall happy with our application, the feeling i felt was relief, not joy.
 

BorjeSpurs

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2007
3,632
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Thing is we'll never know, i am sure there will be a lot of chest puffing if Palace beat Villa on Sunday in here and all over the site but the job is done and Villa are now on the beach with CL secured so the game will play out differently.
Yep.

This was the game after Crouch has got us CL for the first time at the Etihad.

Lost a 0-2 lead against an already relegated Burnley side and no one cared.

1715770222675.png
 

IfiHadTheWings

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2013
3,991
12,760
Ange literally said INSIDE AND OUTSIDE of the club. He wasn't on about just the fans. The fans last night are what tipped him over the edge.
I know what he said, i just think it was naive of him to think it was going to be any other way.
 
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