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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

marion52

Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2006
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2,614
Can’t be bothered to read this whole thread this mornin, I am both knackered (from a 1.30am home) and disappointed that we playEd so well and came away with zilch.
However thinking about what he said both ‘inside and outside’ the club - I get he didn’t like some fans wanting us to lose (me neither Ange) but inside got me thinking Mason is Spurs for one and maybe others in the backroom staff who also MAYBE (not pointing the finger here) were not as we must try to win as others? Certainly something got to him with the talk of change
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Feb 1, 2005
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206,875
I think the some of the most interesting stuff from Ange last night has largely flown under the radar, "going back to the drawing board and changing a few things".

We're led to believe that summer plans are already in place, so that ain't changing unless something tasty drops into our laps, so him looking at it again and making changes, well, I wouldn't assume it'll be a change in philosophy or at least not a big one but it'd be interesting to see what that might be. Sadly, we might never know as it'll probably be behind the scenes stuff.

Whatever it is, get it done Ange, we'll have setbacks to come, of course we will and we really do need to come together, understand it and embrace the journey.

Balls deep on Ange (other non balls related shows of support are available)
 

G Ron

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2012
2,063
7,843
Whilst Ange is on the warpath I hope he calls out that silly little **** Jamie O’Hara and tell him he’s not welcome at the Club. All week he’s been an embarrassment to our fan base, like it or not he represents us to a big audience and yesterday he’s jumping around in a City shirt celebrating.
But that’s what the outlet is in place for - click bait. They employ morons (Simon Jordan aside) to antagonise fans into calling in. Pay no attention to their nonsense as they’re a huge contributor to the problem with football tribalism and social media.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
31,463
20,076
But trust me, if the shoe was on the other foot they would’ve done exactly the same. I’d say more so than us, they would be distraught if we won anything, let alone the league. Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham fans would have all wanted to roll over and die to prevent Spurs being successful and if they say otherwise they’re fucking lying as all they have to done out on Re us is the lack of trophies. Once we get that monkey off our back they won’t have anything to throw at us and they can’t stomach the thought of that.
I do agree about the monkey part, we need something tangible via a trophy.

I just don't care much about football rivalrys though, I know thats not everyones thought process, but I really don't tbh (I undesrtand them of course), so its just me sat on the other side of the fence.
 

NickHSpurs

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2004
13,726
12,323
But that’s what the outlet is in place for - click bait. They employ morons (Simon Jordan aside) to antagonise fans into calling in. Pay no attention to their nonsense as they’re a huge contributor to the problem with football tribalism and social media.

Oh I agree, the stations tagline is something like engineered for confrontation so they don’t hide it. Doesn’t mean O’Hara has to do it though, he can say no and have some integrity.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
31,463
20,076
I think the some of the most interesting stuff from Ange last night has largely flown under the radar, "going back to the drawing board and changing a few things".

We're led to believe that summer plans are already in place, so that ain't changing unless something tasty drops into our laps, so him looking at it again and making changes, well, I wouldn't assume it'll be a change in philosophy or at least not a big one but it'd be interesting to see what that might be. Sadly, we might never know as it'll probably be behind the scenes stuff.

Whatever it is, get it done Ange, we'll have setbacks to come, of course we will and we really do need to come together, understand it and embrace the journey.

Balls deep on Ange (other non balls related shows of support are available)
Yes, and the comments about inside the club, this doesn't necessarily mean the players, but also the staff.

Obviously a fair amount of assumptions here, but knowing clubs employ a lot of fans in positions all across the place(kitchen, cleaners, kit people, security physios etc), not all are fans, but the majority will be spurs fans, no doubt its been talked about internally a lot over the last 48 hours.. no doubt discussions about losing the game to ensure Arsenal don't win were had - obviously speculation, but I took the internal part to mean that side of things, it creates doubt/culture etc
 

theShiznit

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2004
18,107
24,356
If an elephant is tied to a post when it is young and as hard as it may try it cannot escape. When it is full grown it will just accept it still cannot escape even though it has the power to easily do so.

That's what it is like being a Spurs fan, after years of hatred (from people known and unknown) just for wearing a Spurs shirt, and being mocked by everyone's fans, even ones that have won a tenth of what we have in our lifetimes (well most)

There comes a point where it's easier not to fight it and accept our fate as Spurs fans...

Glad Ange is trying to challenge that, but it's been said by Mourinho and Conte, maybe even more.

Ultimately actions speak louder than words...
 

G Ron

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2012
2,063
7,843
I do agree about the monkey part, we need something tangible via a trophy.

I just don't care much about football rivalrys though, I know thats not everyones thought process, but I really don't tbh (I undesrtand them of course), so its just me sat on the other side of the fence.
I fully respect that mate - I wish I didn’t let the rivalry affect me so much but I just can’t help it.

We just need a meaningful trophy to shut everyone up (and when I say meaningful I don’t include the conference trophy!). EL would be a dream next season.
 

mattspur1986

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2007
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These takes are so odd to me. of course results are dissapointing but overall a fith place finish considering all the upheaval is pretty reasonable and these are clubs we have consistently struggled against. I feel confident Ange went into every game trying to win.

Are we totally incapable of some self-reflection over a perceived slight as fans? We all want to see Spurs win and be succesful. I can certainly improve as a fan, the team can certainly improve. Are we really ok with telling professionals that it is ok to throw a game as a fanbase?

The team loses some times but as long as they are working towards improvements then we should support them. It seems an apples and oranges comparison.

Supposedly he had a fan in his ear the whole game asking them to deliberately lose. That should never be accepted as a fanbase if we want to be serious. I'm not precious about the manager calling that out. Running to social media to whinge because the team came up short in tough games as a response does illustrate to me there might be a little fragility that is worth thinking about

i agree it’s been a “fairly” decent season. BUT had he showed some tactical flexibility that he clearly possesses in the previous games especially ( and maybe further back ) think his main tactics that worked so well at the start have been found out and he needs to adjust if his statement about “ just wanting to win games is true”

we wouldn’t be here discussing this weird situation now.
He has to own some of the responsibility as do we as fans, and as do the heirachy.

Just so we’re clear I’m still behind ange - and think he can do some big things etc.
 

bigfrooj

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2011
2,987
8,637
It's simple. Ange is a grown man, a proper sportsman, wrestling with a massive job trying to turn this club around. All week he's picked up vibes of it's ok to lose this one which is absolutely unthinkable to him. He doesn't give a flying turd about any other club except to benchmark his own progress. I don't think he has an issue with the players, their attitude was very good last night and it was a decent performance - I think he picked up negative vibes all round the club and in the media he takes notice of. Of course that gets out to the players. Where was the partisan atmosphere last night? He's having a go at us- the so called fanbase, and he's absolutely right to. Don't say it's not negative wanting your team to lose - it's the most negative thing in sport.
 

parj

NDombelly ate all the pies
Jul 27, 2003
3,764
6,196
Agree with this, we relied on Sarr and Bentancur running from deep - we desperately need a CF or to gamble on maybe on Lankshear when Richie isn't fit.

Ange has my support but he needs to adapt and we need to appoint a new captain, Chelsea away was a real low for me - they barely had elven fit players and we failed to target Gilchrist who was making his PL debut our "world class" captain being up against him and this was off the back of Newcastle exploiting the gaps behind our full backs and Arsenal and Livepool targetting Davies and Royal respectively.
Why do people not understand that if the service is crap then the attack will be crap. Son must be gutted looking at the service the other team provides. Quick, decisive, and in the right spaces. Look at Walker yesterday, look at Doku when he came on. City looked average yesterday because the service was shocking into their forwards. Haaland and KDB looked poor in the first half. Then all of a sudden ball is moving quicker when City have it.

Son was great when the service was good, but when the service relies on someone tackling the last defender and hoping it goes into the path of Son, then that's a problem. That's not me defending Son, the same applies for Richy, Johnson, Scarlett, and Werner
 

fishhhandaricecake

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Nov 15, 2018
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49,685
I honestly think Ange is so perfect for us, he just wants to win and he realises that he has a big job on his hands to change the culture of our club similar to what Conte said at the end of his time with us.

I think it is great that he is angry and passionate at this point because it creates more noise and reaction which will be good longer term.

I think he does realise that last night was a freak situation for our club where we didn't want our biggest rivals to take a big step to winning a title given that us getting a point or 3 points wouldn't guarantee CL football, yes that can be seen as 'small time mentality' or it can be seen as weighing up the situation and behaving how the fans felt they wanted to behave.

As other posters have said, Chelsea, West Ham, Arsenal, all their fans would've acted the same as ours in that situation, just like when we were going for the title and West Ham and Chelsea played matches of their seasons to beat us to try and stop us winning the league, meanwhile also rolling over for Leicester etc.

Our club does however have 'fragile foundations' because imo of Levy and the culture he's created that we are more of a business that a football club that's priority is to WIN and that coupled with us having not won much of note for 35 years has embedded a culture of 'well if we can't success lets at least make sure our main rivals don't' and that is a normal reaction to have as a competitive fan.

The way this can be changed is if we start to have success and we consistently change our behaviours to be tailored to win, that starts at Board level, it goes throughout the club internally, it involves the fans, it involves the managers and it involves the players, hence why Ange said fragile foundations "inside and out", he of course was referring to everything but more specifically our fans last night who only sang once we were 0-2 down.

I think Ange is clever and he knows very well how to play the media, he is also not stupid and he knows what a unique situation we were in, he will have been disappointed with the fans but he will use that last 48hrs as learning as he's mentioned in order to make more changes in order to get us towards winning.

I couldn't think of a better person for our club right now, he completely gets the situation and what is needed.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
20,265
338,798
Always put Spurs first. Always.

But you're saying some of us fans cant enjoy the massive silver lining of most probably denying them the title last night
I think everyone is happy they are less likely to win the title, I don't think that is even up for debate is it? As you say though it is a silver lining and nothing more imo. Some have taken it above and beyond that and overstepped the line in some cases by a long way. All I'm saying is that until we all change nothing will change.

Fact is managers will come and go, They'll get so far, realise it's just too toxic of an environment at the club, call it out for what it is and inevitably move on. The fanbase, and by that I mean all of us, are stuck with it. We can continue being part of the problem or we can do our part. Not on a pick and choose which games basis but always.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
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49,685
It's simple. Ange is a grown man, a proper sportsman, wrestling with a massive job trying to turn this club around. All week he's picked up vibes of it's ok to lose this one which is absolutely unthinkable to him. He doesn't give a flying turd about any other club except to benchmark his own progress. I don't think he has an issue with the players, their attitude was very good last night and it was a decent performance - I think he picked up negative vibes all round the club and in the media he takes notice of. Of course that gets out to the players. Where was the partisan atmosphere last night? He's having a go at us- the so called fanbase, and he's absolutely right to. Don't say it's not negative wanting your team to lose - it's the most negative thing in sport.
Agree with this and from Ange's perspective everything he is saying is spot on and tbh as fans we can't argue with it but its so clear and understandable why the culture has been created over the last 35yrs and if we were a consistently big club that had won big titles regularly then last night some of our fans might still have wanted City to win but a huge majority would've focused on wanting us to win, we are not an elite winning club mentally or in terms of player quality but only one thing will change this, winning and competiting at the top consistently.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
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49,685
I think everyone is happy they are less likely to win the title, I don't think that is even up for debate is it? As you say though it is a silver lining and nothing more imo. Some have taken it above and beyond that and overstepped the line in some cases by a long way. All I'm saying is that until we all change nothing will change.

Fact is managers will come and go, They'll get so far, realise it's just too toxic of an environment at the club, call it out for what it is and inevitably move on. The fanbase, and by that I mean all of us, are stuck with it. We can continue being part of the problem or we can do our part. Not on a pick and choose which games basis but always.
Its down to the Manager to change this and fight against it, not give up.

Alex Ferguson had to totally change the culture at Man.U and then he had to fight against takeovers and many changes, he didn't just give up, he doubled down on what he wanted for the club to continue to be successful.

Ideally Levy could help set a different culture within the club or ideally be replaced as fresh change can make a big difference compared to an incumbent leader changing their ways but as that is unlikely it is down to Ange to influence change which he is doing and will do.

He's also hugely peed off at losing 5 out of 6 last games and thinks last night if the fans were fully behind the team that could've made the difference to at least getting a draw and getting 5th place secured or even a win and still going for CL spot and he is right but it was a very rare unique situation.
 

Albertbarich

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Jul 4, 2020
5,549
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I do agree about the monkey part, we need something tangible via a trophy.

I just don't care much about football rivalrys though, I know thats not everyones thought process, but I really don't tbh (I undesrtand them of course), so its just me sat on the other side of the fence.
I think we should all just move on from this but I'll explain my fandom.

I love spurs, have done for ,40 years. I can't go anymore due to geography/money but im still as obsessed as I was when I was 8.

Part of that has always been hating that lot. Never buy JVC, I didn't eat a KitKat for years when Campbell was in the advert, don't sing Graham's name etc etc. As the old saying goes, ' I hate arsenal because I'm a spurs fan, I hate Chelsea because I'm human'.

Growing up In Tottenham and then Herts I was surrounded by them, we have nearly always been second best and they made your life a misery. So smug, always getting one up on us. And In my 40 years I've had the 91 semi final but even then they won the league didn't they? , the Carling cup semi which was really magical, and the Poch/post Wenger era where even despite us being better we still won't nothing. Basically being spurs has always been hard, we rarely have the bragging rights or the memories they do.

Now you can look at last night anyway you want. It's your fandom and you're entitled to live it and feel the way you do. But whilst I wasn't cheering against us I make no apology for wanting that lot to suffer, for wanting to make sure they don't get another great memory whilst laughing at us.

Its not small time, it's football rivalry and in that unique circumstance any club would have had the same going on. Well any club with a hated rival. I remember their Champions league final, they were singing about Tottenham in it for a reason. They hate us and we hate them.

We're not unique, we're not better or worse than any set of football fans and no we don't have a winning mentality because we never win but our mentality has bugger all to do with the teams performance. All the fans can do is turn up , which they do. Every home game a sell out and the away support is second to none. The rest is down to the club. A club that has consistently let down it's fanbase by the way.

Its a shame this discourse is carrying on. I felt his tactics last night were brilliant, Madders looks like himself, Micky a brilliant left back alternative, radu looked great, Vic didn't look shaky from corners (remember it was city that started it) and Mikey Moore made his debut. So many positives.

If Ange has an issue with the fans not only do I disagree but I think he is fighting a losing fight but I'm sure that was just out of frustration from the very odd build up/circumstances but what is really worrying/relevant is the issue within . What's the problem? Is it staff? He defended the players, is it the board? That's what we should be worried about because those are tangible things that effects his ability to do his job.

I hope the chairman backs him and I don't just mean financially. If Ange needs to lose long-term members of staff then so be it
 
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Styopa

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Jan 19, 2014
5,762
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If an elephant is tied to a post when it is young and as hard as it may try it cannot escape. When it is full grown it will just accept it still cannot escape even though it has the power to easily do so.

That's what it is like being a Spurs fan, after years of hatred (from people known and unknown) just for wearing a Spurs shirt, and being mocked by everyone's fans, even ones that have won a tenth of what we have in our lifetimes (well most)

There comes a point where it's easier not to fight it and accept our fate as Spurs fans...

Glad Ange is trying to challenge that, but it's been said by Mourinho and Conte, maybe even more.

Ultimately actions speak louder than words...

This is just part of being a football fan though. Look at how we laugh at Liverpool fans. Literally go into the Liverpool thread and look at all the posts talking about them being conspiracy theorists and deluded and so on.

We’ve had it crap compared to Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and a few other clubs. But so have 99% of fans who follow other clubs. What about Leeds, Everton and Villa.

My mate is a Birmingham City fan and they have just been relegated to league one. Two leagues below their hated rivals, Aston Villa.
 

spurs mental

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2007
25,754
51,253
But trust me, if the shoe was on the other foot they would’ve done exactly the same. I’d say more so than us, they would be distraught if we won anything, let alone the league. Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham fans would have all wanted to roll over and die to prevent Spurs being successful and if they say otherwise they’re fucking lying as all they have to roll out on Re us is the lack of trophies. Once we get that monkey off our back they won’t have anything to throw at us and they can’t stomach the thought of that.
Of course they would, but they're all weird and all see us as their biggest rivals.

We should be striving to be better than them all.
 

dimiSpur

There's always next year...
Aug 9, 2008
5,851
6,795
Ange in the last 48 hours has created a shitstorm all of his own making.

Firstly, whilst he's the manager, he's been at the club for less than a calendar year. He is not in a position to understand what is important to fans. I love Tottenham, but I also hate Arsenal. I believed that top four was unattainable, mainly due to the shit performances we've seen over the last 2 months. Therefore, my personal priority as a fan, and I'm entitled to have any opinion I want, was that I'd rather Arsenal lose the league title.

What Ange does not understand is that if we took points off City and won Arsenal the league, that would be the narrative. Arteta lifting the title and their fans singing about us. Like they still sing about winning the league at the Lane, they'd be singing about last night for decades. That would be hurtful.

Therefore, I wanted City to win the league more than I wanted us to have an outside chance of CL qualification on the final day. That's not a small or fragile mentality, its a consequence of them having a better team than us right now. The fact that we haven't won anything, isn't because the fans are fragile, its because we've only been the 5th best team in the league this year.

Where was his winning mentality when he played a second string XI for the EFL Cup? Was that the fans fault too? How about when we lost to City in the Cup? Was that our fault too?

I also don't think we deserve CL the way we've played and as we have a "fragile" squad, I don't think it would help us. That's a separate matter though.

For Ange to then go on the attack, shows that he doesn't truly understand the club he is at. He should also be careful, as the fans have, for the most part, been positive about his first season despite the shitshow since January. And now the headlines are all about how ****y spurs fans are, because of what he said. He's thrown us under the bus and he's talking bollocks too. Did we lose to Newcastle because of the fans too? How about being 3-0 down to Arsenal at home?

So set pieces aren't an issue, but the fans not creating a good atmosphere for one game was? It's the first time I've questioned whether he understands where he is and the importance of the fans. I don't want to be told off by anyone. I want what I want, for the reasons that I want. His job depends on our acceptance of him, not the other way around. If he doesn't like it, he can piss off.
 

Cambridge Spur

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2015
431
1,413
Never been more certain that Ange is our man. I agree with everything he said and share his frustration. I actually thought the crowd started off quite well and I thought the references to Arsenal were more in defiance than anything else. I joined in to start with because I saw it as ‘fuck Arsenal, we’re going to play to win anyway!’ That quickly changed though when I saw fans actively frustrated when city missed an early chance and I thought this doesn’t feel right. I also noticed many fans wearing sky blue spurs shirts to try and show their support for city. As I’ve said before, I get not wanting Arsenal to win the league but now is the time to become bigger than that. It was an unprecedented evening, let’s hope we’re not in that position again. Back Ange and let’s truly become one of the big boys! COYS!
 
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