What's new

Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,752
49,444

Rocket 🚀 going up some of these players bottys.

What is it about Chelsea away!

Battle of the bridge : Poch and whole team lost their heads

4-0 : Tim Sherwood seething afterwards

Conte & Tuchel handshakegate

Ange tonight seething!

As for Ange, I liked the team selection but I think we learnt a few more things such as : Emerson can’t play in this system, we have no stand out CM options, they’re all a bit average or off form, Kulu needs selling, we lack good quality attacking options at least 2 top attackers need to be signed and a top CDM.

But also Ange needs to address this as the teams energy and confidence is shot, our set pieces both attacking and defending are awful and we look toothless going forwards.

I’m far from losing faith as I knew this project would go like this but I do hope Ange tweaks something if that is what is needed and also I hope we properly back him this summer as this squad is still well off it and we are reverting to roughly where the squad is in terms of quality (5th-6th place).
 

Rout-Ledge

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
9,753
22,215
I'm even running out of patience with Son now. If he's not scoring he offers absolutely nothing to the team, so I wouldn't be against moving him on now.
I love the bloke but we just cannot afford to be sentimental and carry player who (to be honest) aren't offering much at all.
I get that, but it’s a team problem rather than a player problem currently, and Son is the only player in our squad who could be called Spurs legend with a straight face.
 

spurs303

Member
Oct 27, 2019
36
48
Is it too much to ask for the club, and fans to put our current woes into some context?

After 1 year in charge, Arteta's Arsenal were in 15th position in the league. Over that 12 month period they were consistently in the bottom half of the table for shots and expected goals, while defensively, only Sheffield United, Newcastle and West Ham had more expected goals against. They were pretty shit. Over his first couple of seasons Arteta was always under pressure and looked completely out of his depth. Everything has changed there (except that he is still a complete twat) and they could very well win the title.

Wouldn't it be nice if we actually went through a full cycle with a manager? Just once, just to do something completely different. Do we really think that Mourinho and Conte were suddenly bad managers. This idea that a manager needs to be just the right fit for the club is BS. Any decent manager needs to be backed properly and given the time to deliver. There are always going to be very shit periods, Ange has said that from day 1.

I always felt we would lose these four big games. Arsenal were going to take some stopping, even at home. We never get a result away to Chelsea or Liverpool. But suddenly it's the end of the line for Ange if we can't win at Stamford Bridge for the second time in 34 years? It's rotten luck that we have this run of games, and I can't see us turning over City, (while many wouldn't actually want us to, now fourth is gone, and Arsenal set to be the beneficiaries).

Guardiola, and Klopp are two of the most successful managers the PL has seen, both took a lot longer than Ange has had to turn things around, and with considerably more resources. Ange's system is high risk and requires very specialist players. When it goes wrong it was always going to be horrible, but he has already achieved enough to deserve the time to make this squad his own.

I wanted Poch to be backed properly, I wanted Mourinho to be backed properly, I really wanted Conte to be backed properly. I wouldn't have sacked any of them when they were let go. Perhaps it was a mistake to go with Conte, because Levy was always going to sell him short, but with Ange we have a project manager, one who has brought success in every club and league he has managed in, and one who actually sings from the same hymn sheet as Levy in terms of targeting value in the market, and not insisting on 100 million quid players etc.

For once, can we just see this through...
Ange is NOT a project manager - He said himself -He moves on
 

Darth Vega

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2013
1,712
10,503
I flip this to you this way....

Why is he playing inverted fullbacks knowing Emerson can barely play it...that too on left side of the pitch.

This defeat has got NOTHING to do with lack of players.

Did you see bench of Chelsea today ???
Because it's better in the long-run to coach the team in the same system over and over again. If we adapted each week relative to the players we've had missing we'd be playing a different system every single week given the injuries we've had, which would likely not only mean similarly inconsistent results but it'd also mean we wouldn't be building any kind of foundation for next season either.
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
9,450
26,659
I’m all for blaming the players, been an advocate for that for years with this bloody club. However, on this occasion I will point out that we’ve conceded twice from set pieces a few days after our manager had stated that aspect was not a priority area that needs addressing. He’s not passing the mirror test right now.
He said that set pieces were part of a larger problem, particularly players switching off and allowing situations to develop that turn into set pieces.

Now, obviously set pieces are an issue, but I think it’s part of a larger problem where players are too passive and not aggressive enough and that’s what I think he was talking about fixing, rather then just specific set plays.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
12,014
34,892
This thread at the moment is eerily similar to this Poch thread around the same time in his first season.

We made 5 transfers the summer after (Son, Toby, Njie, Wimmer and Trippier) and challenged for the league.

 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,926
32,703
I thought the praise was pretty over the top early in the season, the football hasn't actually been that scintillating and there's been a handful of games at most (mainly early doors) where it really clicked, and I've disagreed with plenty of what he has done this season.

Having said that we've seen glimpses that the guy has an interesting and exciting approach to how the game should be played, in keeping with modern football principles, there's enough evidence on his CV he can get it translated out on to the pitch, and we shouldn't even be contemplating a change. There are lot of things, many obvious, to improve on - I'm not going to repeat them, I did a huge post last week on it - but there has to be another campaign at least for AP to implement and build something.

That is where patience is required, in other areas we need to be much more ruthless. Now I'm usually pretty hard on our players and extremely tough to please, there is usually no more than a handful of players in the squad I'm truly content with, and with our current roster there is no exception. If it was me there would be very little off the table in terms of upgrading. I think fans over-rate most of our players, they're alright in most cases but very few you couldn't improve on.

To put it on record, I think we could do better at GK, RB, LB, DM, CM, AM, WF, CF.... basically every position bar the centre backs really. Most of you will think that is too harsh, and of course that's not realistic, but anywhere we can get better we should. That might be easily done if eg. Udogie as a young player can improve his output, but in many positions we simply need much better. We need an upgrade in technical quality and ability to control, pass, and move across the park in most positions. And consistent performance at that. Less athletes, more footballers. More cerebral players who can dictate, create, and not fuck the ball away at will, like most of our guys do even on a good day. We should be brave - to match the apparent beliefs of both manager and the football club - even if that is to the point of reckless... For instance if our "fullbacks" are going to continue to play as 6's, 8's or even in the No.10 positions, why not convert some midfielders to do the job? And some changes have to be made for the sake of my own sanity - I cannot go another season for instance watching Brennan Johnson or Timo Werner (or any of our other senior options) playing on the wing for Tottenham. I just can't. We're just wasting time.

This season just needs to end now, it fizzled out - performance wise - really ages ago. Got to be full steam ahead in the summer though getting on with the building project. Be bold, be radical, be brave and attack it.
 
Last edited:

ajspurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2007
23,335
31,859
Rocket 🚀 going up some of these players bottys.

What is it about Chelsea away!

Battle of the bridge : Poch and whole team lost their heads

4-0 : Tim Sherwood seething afterwards

Conte & Tuchel handshakegate

Ange tonight seething!

As for Ange, I liked the team selection but I think we learnt a few more things such as : Emerson can’t play in this system, we have no stand out CM options, they’re all a bit average or off form, Kulu needs selling, we lack good quality attacking options at least 2 top attackers need to be signed and a top CDM.

But also Ange needs to address this as the teams energy and confidence is shot, our set pieces both attacking and defending are awful and we look toothless going forwards.

I’m far from losing faith as I knew this project would go like this but I do hope Ange tweaks something if that is what is needed and also I hope we properly back him this summer as this squad is still well off it and we are reverting to roughly where the squad is in terms of quality (5th-6th place).

It's annoying that I knew under every circumstance we were losing this game.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
55,582
101,715
Feel for him after watching that interview.

He looks completely dejected.

I think thats a wrap for the season, Agne looks like he needs a break from this group.

I love Agne, he conducts himself so well but I do have doubts about his system and if its sustainable to yield the points needed over a full season if we',re looking to compete near the top.

The top sides have strong defensive structures in place.

Its what Arsenal recognised and rectified to hit that next level.

Our approach just doesnt reflect that at all.

I think he'll have to make significant adjustments to succeed in the PL.
 
Last edited:

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
13,276
48,083
Ange is NOT a project manager - He said himself -He moves on
Did he? I thought he said that he improves teams and then moves on.

And let's face it, if he doesn't improve us, where is he moving on to?

We are currently the pinnacle of his career and I can't see him wanting to do anything but get success here, not just move on if he doesn't because where is he going?
I'm not sure you can say that he's not a.project manager, more that his projects have come to fruition quicker than expected and he then moved up.

I don't really understand this thought that he's a short term manager because really, there isn't enough evidence to prove either way.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,994
79,923
Wait I thought the set piece issue was zonal marking? There's obviously more to it than that. As I said before the players have to defend set pieces better. They don't have the fight and desire to keep the ball out. How do they leave players over for the free kick? How do they show so little fight after the ball comes off the bar?
 

Rage

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2008
51
341
Turgid performance, no doubt.

But seeing Ange absolutely berate some of the team makes me think it is more the players than him. Now, I accept and agree there is an argument to be made that the players don't trust his tactics and therefore, do not do as he says. But, and this is a big but, the players are there to implement the managers tactics and instructions, no matter what. If even one decides to not follow that edict, then all tactics are null and void.

I personally could not care less if the players disagree with tactics. It is their job, and their job only to implement those tactics and do what is told of them. That is quite literally their job.

If those tactics are wrong and we continually lose, then on Ange's head be it and I am certain he would recognise that.

That fact that he gets so irate with that players shows me they are not doing what he is instructing. Therefore, I believe that there are a number of players in this team who need to be exited from this club because they think they know best. A collective is better than a group of individuals. To have a manager so angry at their players shows me that they are not doing as instructed - and no matter how talented these players are - the collective and tactics of an entire team is greater than the sum of its parts. I worry we have a few that are individuals and not a collective.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
9,312
29,139
Feel for him after watching that interview.

He looks completely dejected.

I think thats a wrap for the season, Agne looks like he needs a break from this group.

I love Agne, he conducts himself so well but I do have doubs about his system and if its sustainable to yield the points needed over a full season if we',re looking to compete near the top.

The top sides have strong defensive structures in place.

Its what Arsenal recognised and rectified to hit that next level.

Our approach just doesnt reflect that at all.

I think he'll have to make significant adjustments to succeed in the PL.
I don't think he looks dejected I think he looks absolutely fucking furious
 

NickHSpurs

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2004
13,696
12,215
I hate to use them as an example but look at the amount of times Arteta was seen to be out of his depth, there were calls from fans and media that he needed to leave. Now look where they are having given him time to get his own players around the good ones he inherited.
 

Cambridge Spur

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2015
420
1,375
I actually feel sad for him tonight. He looks a broken man. We really are cursed, it doesn’t matter who the players are or the manager, it always seems to end the same way. I don’t want him to go but it already feels like the beginning of the end. 😪
 

13VanDerBale13

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2011
14,670
34,544
I hate to use them as an example but look at the amount of times Arteta was seen to be out of his depth, there were calls from fans and media that he needed to leave. Now look where they are having given him time to get his own players around the good ones he inherited.

A 100m DM helps.

Ange won’t be backed like that, but he certainly needs to let go of his stubbornness.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,752
49,444
Feel for him after watching that interview.

He looks completely dejected.

I think thats a wrap for the season, Agne looks like he needs a break from this group.

I love Agne, he conducts himself so well but I do have doubs about his system and if its sustainable to yield the points needed over a full season if we',re looking to compete near the top.

The top sides have strong defensive structures in place.

Its what Arsenal recognised and rectified to hit that next level.

Our approach just doesnt reflect that at all.

I think he'll have to make significant adjustments to succeed in the PL.
Yea very fair points.

I still love Ange and the project and I think IF we can make 4-5 top signings that could make a decent difference to how well we play but as much as I love Ange, I like you also do have some doubts about this current system being capable of getting us to challenge right at the top.

Again I go back to Klopps Liverpool, they were inconsistent and letting in a few goals here and there mostly due to lack of quality and individual errors but they were not shipping tons of goals match after match from huge gaping spaces behind their defence and from set pieces. Let’s not lie, that could’ve been 3/4-0 tonight easily.

Ange did say he needs to take a look at himself as tonight was on him, he seemed to mean more in terms of his message not getting through and the players not believing in the system but as you say could it be that the system needs tweaking a bit.

There is growing pains and then there is just being stubborn or naive in the face of clear weaknesses.

Let’s see how the rest of this season unfolds but I think it’s going to be preseason next season when we see what he is really thinking about the system and squad.

As you say, top teams all have good defences that’s just a fact always, I’m all for an attacking approach but we can’t be conceding 2/3/4 goals a game, we won’t win anything like that.

Still fully fully behind Ange but he needs to tweak something.

Im still also annoyed Lo Celso isn’t getting a game at n.o 10 but bloody foul a minute Kulu is.
 

Oh Teddy Teddy

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2017
5,352
12,839
I think the same could be said for a lot of treams and thier squads, but our squad is not as bad as our recent forms suggests in my opinion.

Our squad not as good as our first 10 suggested; and probably not as bad as last 10.

But some serious refreshment needed this summer either way. Particularly up front.
 

Spurvert

Huge Member
Jul 10, 2011
2,375
2,837
Do I like Ange? Yes.

Am I concerned about what I’ve seen at points over the last few months? Yes.

Would I give him time? Yes. At least next season.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,752
49,444
I actually feel sad for him tonight. He looks a broken man. We really are cursed, it doesn’t matter who the players are or the manager, it always seems to end the same way. I don’t want him to go but it already feels like the beginning of the end. 😪
No it doesn’t, he’s just fuming because we were very poor tonight and have been off form for a while but were especially poor tonight.
 
Top