What's new

Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Whazam

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
557
2,055
He has gone up levels though, just not at the rate you want him to have done. If he was managing in Europe I could see your point, but he was in Asia. His working up the football ladder was always going to take longer because of his background and where he was geographically. The vast majority of European based clubs would not have taken a punt on him because of the reasons you state. If he isn't given the chance then how can he succeed at this level? Celtic gave him that chance, he got them a treble. Now we have given him a chance and we have to give him time and backing. He may succeed. He may not. But unless someone is willing to give him, or whoever, that opportunity how can we know?
Can't fathom how this can be so hard to understand. And even used as an argument against him.
 

TOLBINY

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2019
1,256
2,878
You're making these analogies but they're not relevant, he's an anomaly. He didn't have s decorated playing career, retired relatively early but has honed in an ability to build squads and bring success. You could say he has a transferable blueprint and nothing he's done so far is any different to what he's done previously.
Generally European clubs can be quite insular and traditional in who they appoint but he was on the radar of the City group, who have a better finger on the pulse than most (they recommended him to Celtic).
Ange is an anomaly - fine and thank you for the answer.

Can you have a stab at answering why would Conte want to leave a £15M a year job?
 

TOLBINY

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2019
1,256
2,878
Yeah. I’m not sure how much more obvious Conte could have made it that he wanted to leave.

I actually think Levy’s last 3 major sackings (Poch, Mourinho and Conte) were probably the right decisions. I think for all 3 of them, their positions had become more or less untenable by the time they were sacked.

And I think especially Poch and Conte had lost faith in the job. They no longer wanted to be here. They’d had enough.

Contrast that to the mood around Ange this season. Yeah our form recently has not been great but it still feels like we are at the start of something. It feels like we are building something. Whereas by the end of Poch and Conte, it felt like things were just falling to pieces.
Why did Conte no longer want a £15M a year job?
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,587
15,564
Let’s be honest, most expected us to be scrapping with Brighton and Villa for the 7th and 8th spots. This was a transitional season, the first without Kane and Lloris, our leaders for the last few years.

I think especially in the case of Brighton, loads of people were talking about how far ahead of us they were, in terms of their scouting, their coaching, their progressive style of football and so on. They were the model to be emulated.

We finished two points below them last season and 12 goals behind them in goal difference. Now we’re 16 points ahead of them and 14 goals ahead in goal difference.

Ok, that’s just Brighton. But we’re also still 10 points ahead of Man U, who finished 17 points above us last season, and 10 points ahead of Newcastle who finished 11 points ahead of us last season.

It’s only really us and Villa who have any chance of finishing fourth now.

We also have the same amount of points as we amassed last season, with six games still left to play.

That looks like progress to me?

Ok we’re not in Europe but we have had several major obstacles to navigate, like learning a new system and losing our best player.
 

sidford

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2003
11,484
30,485
Interesting listening to last few minutes of the view from the lane comparing Jack pitt Brookes view of Ange & his cult and Danny Kelly & his more maybe pragmatism regards him. It's well worth a listen, I'm more JPB to be honest but understand where Danny is coming from
 

Sp3akerboxxx

Adoption: Nabil Bentaleb
Apr 4, 2006
5,428
8,184
Interesting listening to last few minutes of the view from the lane comparing Jack pitt Brookes view of Ange & his cult and Danny Kelly & his more maybe pragmatism regards him. It's well worth a listen, I'm more JPB to be honest but understand where Danny is coming from
Fucking weird that if you wanted to listen to it on The Athletic you would have to pay money.

But they let you listen to it for free on Apple Podcasts.

Do they get no advertising revenue from their own website?
 

sidford

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2003
11,484
30,485
Fucking weird that if you wanted to listen to it on The Athletic you would have to pay money.

But they let you listen to it for free on Apple Podcasts.

Do they get no advertising revenue from their own website?
If you listen on athletic you don't get any ads
 

Frank Blank

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2007
1,945
3,392
Personally, I'm not getting too caught up in bad results right now. The amazing start to the season had us dreaming of doing more than what most expected in August. Lets be honest, most expected us to be scrapping with Brighton and Villa for the 7th and 8th spots. This was a transitional season, the first without Kane and Lloris, our leaders for the last few years.

At some point we are going to have to ride out a rough period with a manager, because no matter who we get in there is going to be a drop off at some point. We can't be just turning on the manager the moment things start to go south else we really will be in a constant state of transition forever more.

I also think things will look a bit better once Ange gets some players in he wants. A lot of people are going to point to the number of changes from last season, but I think the only players we've purchased for Ange are Micky, Vicario, Dragusin and Johnson.

That's all very well, but at the end of the day it also comes down to not being tactically naive.

There's playing a high line and then there's playing a HIGH line. Now I've nothing against compressing the play up the pitch - even if it means there's always the risk of the opposition lumping it over the top for someone to run on to and it thus becomes a foot face.

However, when the play has become so compressed that it's impossible for the opposing forward (Isak) to be offside because he's still inside his own half when the ball is actually lumped over the top, then I have issues.
 

gibbospurs

SC Supporter
Aug 28, 2010
5,029
6,676
Why has he stopped everyone actually shooting!! I’m mean Sonny and Maddison get 20 goals a season usually. We just fuck about with it and lose possession. Not unlike Conte tbf.
 

Nick-TopSpursMan

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2005
4,251
20,876
One of the big problems we have currently imo is that we simply don’t have anyone in attack who has the individual ability to score goals or create from moments of magic.

Son used to score screamers from nothing but he doesn’t shoot now and he’s also starting to naturally decline.

If you look at the nature of our other attackers, Johnson has scored his goals from big chances that have been created for him, same with Werner. Deki is the same really.

We don’t have anyone who can do things like Saka, Foden, Doku the other day etc.

A lot of that comes back to a lack of 1v1 ability and we have to rectify it asap because every team, no matter how good they are, will always have an element of being able to create chances and goals from nothing or tight spaces.

These are the fine margins which open up tight games or win matches at vital moments etc.

It is really great how Ange has got us scoring a lot of team goals from nicely created chances but I think it’s really important that he adds players to our squad who can bring individual quality as this will make us a lot more dangerous.
 
Last edited:

Nick-TopSpursMan

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2005
4,251
20,876
That's all very well, but at the end of the day it also comes down to not being tactically naive.

There's playing a high line and then there's playing a HIGH line. Now I've nothing against compressing the play up the pitch - even if it means there's always the risk of the opposition lumping it over the top for someone to run on to and it thus becomes a foot face.

However, when the play has become so compressed that it's impossible for the opposing forward (Isak) to be offside because he's still inside his own half when the ball is actually lumped over the top, then I have issues.

That is pretty much exactly what City, Scum and Pool do all the time.

The difference is they recover better and either win it back before the ball is played and or position themselves in stronger positions to cut out more of the counters. Even then they all get done. Look at City away to Palace last week, got done after 4 minutes. Scum got done with Watkins goal at the weekend etc.

The main issue with Newcastle’s 3rd goal and Isak running in was really that VdV had a complete nightmare. He let him run off him when he had total responsibility and visibility of him. As soon as the ball was being played he should have already been with Isak and tracking him. Had he done this he’d have stopped the counter in its tracks and given our other players time to recover.
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,156
5,125
One of the central tenets of Ange style is surely a heavy press of the opposition defence.

This is something we don't see anymore. There is always an easy outball. Sonny goes racing up to the goalie holding the ball, who then easily passes out to unmarked defenders. This is in stark contrast to say, Newcastle who locked us up good..

Like our midfielders not getting back quick enough it's a question of plain effort not being put in. We hear a lot about growth, but it's all for nothing if players aren't motivated.
 

punkisback

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2004
4,437
7,327
Why has he stopped everyone actually shooting!! I’m mean Sonny and Maddison get 20 goals a season usually. We just fuck about with it and lose possession. Not unlike Conte tbf.
They’ve not been able to line up a shot as the opposition get back quickly in numbers and our build up play is too slow. If they saw space they would.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
19,946
335,056
You can't sort these issues overnight though mate, it takes constant coaching with a defensive unit that is all still pretty new at playing both together and in this country.
I honestly think they'd be better just left to their own devices than following the instruction they currently are when it comes to defending set pieces. Right now we are just static in the box looking after our own individual 2m² plot with unmarked opposition players running wherever they like. This gives them momentum in the jump and the ability to create mismatches. At least if they were just left to their own accord they'd at least look to pick up players by default.
 

funkycoldmedina

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2004
2,000
6,606
That is pretty much exactly what City, Scum and Pool do all the time.

The difference is they recover better and either win it back before the ball is played and or position themselves in stronger positions to cut out more of the counters. Even then they all get done. Look at City away to Palace last week, got done after 4 minutes. Scum got done with Watkins goal at the weekend etc.

The main issue with Newcastle’s 3rd goal and Isak running in was really that VdV had a complete nightmare. He let him run off him when he had total responsibility and visibility of him. As soon as the ball was being played he should have already been with Isak and tracking him. Had he done this he’d have stopped the counter in its tracks and given our other players time to recover.
I think the main issue is in a high quality pressing team, players with an ability to execute a long accurate pass to an Isak don't have the time to actually get their head up and get an accurate pass away. We're allowing that at the moment and it's devastating. It will change though IMHO.
 
Top