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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,751
15,966
I think we are somewhat hampered by the fact we are a generally lightweight side with no one who wants to head the ball. Romero is half decent in the air, VDV is actively poor for such a big guy, we don't have a big centre forward to come back... There really ain't anyone to put their head on it

Dragusin maybe? But yes I agree with you.

As a general point, I think sometimes it’s easy to forget that vdV is still very young for a CB, and it’s his first season in England, let alone the Premier League. Same as Udogie.

Sometimes we talk as if the defence is the finished article and we forget how young and inexperienced they are. Out of vdV, Udogie, Porro and Romero, I think Romero is the only one who has played a full season in England? Dragusin has been here just a few months. I think Romero is the only one 25 or older out of the bunch too.

We have more experience with Davies and Emerson but they lack a bit of quality and are not good fits for the system.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,751
15,966
Yes it’s a season in transition and we are outperforming expectations.
However my worry is that we’re on the wrong trajectory. First 10 games great, next 12ish managing lots of injuries, next phase we’ve got everyone back and we seem to have stalled.

Defensively we seem more vulnerable than ever (particularly Fulham & yesterday) and we’ve lost some of our attacking verve at the same time.

I was expecting first half of the season to be teething problems whilst the players adapt but we seem to be the reserve of that right now. Maybe oppo managers have worked out how to stop us?

I don’t think trajectory necessarily has to be a straight line upwards. There can be ups and downs. If we finish this season 5th that will be an improvement on last season, especially since we went through the pain of losing Kane which most people were dreading.

Obviously if we carry this form into next season, then that will be a problem. But a lot will happen between now and then. We’ll have another transfer window and hopefully three or four new first team players. Ange will have another preseason to work with the players, albeit it will be a short one due to the Euros. Hopefully next season won’t be so disrupted by injuries and we can build some momentum which we carry on through the season.
 

carpediem991

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2011
8,842
20,320
Obviously Ange needs time...ans patience. His idea of football suits us and the modern game.

I can not deny that in the last weeks and months I have seen some decisions, that i think are a bit worrying and wonder if they can be addressed by Ange:

- Plan B. It is so obvious what to do against us and we find ourselves in bad positions after 60 minutes. We seem to never really mix things up strategically.

- always the same players starting. Ange has about 13-14 players he gives a start. Its like they have their safe spot and don't need to work for it. On the other side you have players who must feel they will never get a serious chance. Like Lo Celso.

- ignorance of the U21s. Not demanding that they should start games or get regulary time. But why not give them spots on the bench and use them here and there to boost their confidence and see if they can do a job. I never want Sherwood back but he was really good at that. Klopp is good at that.
You simply won't get the best talents for the youth department if you do not intend to use them. Players like Lankshear should get a shot in the absence of Richy. Not expecting him to be the solution, but as a deserving reward in the process.

Hope Ange gets it right and the players confidence back. Really want him to success here...
 

Hazelton

Unknown Member
Jul 11, 2011
5,948
20,956
Genuinely not sure what some people expected. For those even contemplating the idea of Ange out, who do we bring in? What happens the moment they begin to struggle? Keep bringing in manager after manager?

We're slowly putting pieces together, finally looking to establish a long term plan rather than quick fix managers and throwing money at players we can't offload if they fail, trying to move away from multiple years of desperation and chaos. I get that you're sick of waiting, we all are, but we still need to be patient whether we like it or not and the most important part of any project are the people leading it.

Ange has done a good job considering the mess he inherited, maybe not in terms of playing staff but definitely as a club and the mentality around it. Mourinho didn't work, Conte didn't work. Both have created a toxic environment because we needed someone to come in and nurture the club, create a new mentality and a calmness. Don't underestimate the "Spursy" title and the lack of trophies, that will run deep within the club until it's broken but the more desperate we are to win, the worse our chances get.

Judge Ange on next season because he'll be here either way and rightly so. Get angry when we have bad results, get excited when we have good ones. Above all else remember that we're building something and it won't be smooth the entire way but we're still getting there.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
34,926
86,703
Genuinely not sure what some people expected. For those even contemplating the idea of Ange out, who do we bring in? What happens the moment they begin to struggle? Keep bringing in manager after manager?

We're slowly putting pieces together, finally looking to establish a long term plan rather than quick fix managers and throwing money at players we can't offload if they fail, trying to move away from multiple years of desperation and chaos. I get that you're sick of waiting, we all are, but we still need to be patient whether we like it or not and the most important part of any project are the people leading it.

Ange has done a good job considering the mess he inherited, maybe not in terms of playing staff but definitely as a club and the mentality around it. Mourinho didn't work, Conte didn't work. Both have created a toxic environment because we needed someone to come in and nurture the club, create a new mentality and a calmness. Don't underestimate the "Spursy" title and the lack of trophies, that will run deep within the club until it's broken but the more desperate we are to win, the worse our chances get.

Judge Ange on next season because he'll be here either way and rightly so. Get angry when we have bad results, get excited when we have good ones. Above all else remember that we're building something and it won't be smooth the entire way but we're still getting there.
It's simple. We hire a manager who manages us with no down periods.
 

Now it's Spursonal

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2012
1,824
15,079
1. Set Pieces.
Finally we could improve here by adding an aerially strong striker to our team along with an aerially strong 6.
Think this is a very good point that has gone very under appreciated when it comes to our drop off on set pieces.

Harry Kane was an absolute monster when it came to defensive set-pieces. I dont know what percentage of corners it was that he cleared out, but I bet it was very high.

That said though, I’m still firmly in the camp that it is absolutely mandatory to bring in a set piece coach in the summer.
 

elfy

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2013
1,692
7,510
Completely agree, but a lot has to do with aggressively attacking the ball from corners. I think at one ppint they were first to the ball from 9 out of 10 corners. Some of that is coaching no doubt, but a lot is having balls and playing with aggression.
I watched the game yesterday from a beach in Benidorm (I know, poor me!) so had to watch via a stream.

One thing they said in commentary that I hadn't noticed before is when defending corners we seem to go zonal at the near post, man to man at the rear.

I'm tactically ignorant, but if this is true doesn't this lead to confusion amongst the defence as to who is responsible for what? If a player who was man marked runs to the zonal area, does the marker go with them or leave it to the zonal defender? (Or vice versa)

It just looked yesterday at every corner noone seemed to know who was picking up who and who was responsible for what.
 

Joe Bjorn Hotspur

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2023
753
1,843
Genuinely not sure what some people expected. For those even contemplating the idea of Ange out, who do we bring in? What happens the moment they begin to struggle? Keep bringing in manager after manager?

We're slowly putting pieces together, finally looking to establish a long term plan rather than quick fix managers and throwing money at players we can't offload if they fail, trying to move away from multiple years of desperation and chaos. I get that you're sick of waiting, we all are, but we still need to be patient whether we like it or not and the most important part of any project are the people leading it.

Ange has done a good job considering the mess he inherited, maybe not in terms of playing staff but definitely as a club and the mentality around it. Mourinho didn't work, Conte didn't work. Both have created a toxic environment because we needed someone to come in and nurture the club, create a new mentality and a calmness. Don't underestimate the "Spursy" title and the lack of trophies, that will run deep within the club until it's broken but the more desperate we are to win, the worse our chances get.

Judge Ange on next season because he'll be here either way and rightly so. Get angry when we have bad results, get excited when we have good ones. Above all else remember that we're building something and it won't be smooth the entire way but we're still getting there.
Spot on. What’s concerning about modern day fandom, exacerbated by the various social media sites and podcasts, is the impatience. I know every fanbase goes through this but in 5 years we’ve had (including caretakers) 8 managers (Poch, Jose, Mason, Nuno, Conte, Stellini, Mason and Ange)

Don’t want people to get me wrong, various aspects such as individual errors, tactical mistakes, set pieces, zonal marking etc warrant criticism.

However, this is expected in a manager’s first season who was dealt with cards such as Kane’s exit, after surprising everyone after the first 10 PL games faced an injury/ suspension list that curtailed momentum: ever since we’ve stuttered and it’s been very inconsistent.

Getting fed up of some saying this isn’t Scotland, Japan or Australia Ange. I’m sure he’s fully aware of this and it’s embarrassing with those that have huge followings on podcasts saying this. This is why for long periods of time I stay away from it all as rationality goes out of the window.

The optimist in me is looking forward to going to the NLD and cheering the mighty Spurs on seeing how Ange reacts to that shite display yesterday.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
9,402
29,404
Reading some of the posts in here is a genuinely depressing experience. This is clearly a season of transition and the main target for Ange (as he has said over and over again) is to imbed a new system and way of playing into the club. That is his priority. Some of you are unwilling or unable to show patience to support the guy in him doing what needs to be done and that is really annoying. Supporters who express this view will never be happy and will always be first to call for a manager to get sacked and in my view are really crap supporters. In fact to use the term 'supporters' to describe them is a stretch.
 

Hazelton

Unknown Member
Jul 11, 2011
5,948
20,956
Last thing I'll say but I honestly believe a second pre-season will work wonders, that's where the real tactical work and fine tuning happens and where we should have a squad that Ange can call his own after a few windows.

We've gone from a very defensive minded, counter attacking mindset to a possession based, almost gung-ho one and a lot of the players experienced both styles. I think a lot of the pre-season work was probably focused on how to attack and undoing the negative tactics and it shows in our defending, but another pre-season will fix that and we should see a more balanced, long term style of play next season.

I'm genuinely excited to see how we look after another transfer window and summer work. For the first time in a long time I trust the recruitment and we've seen it all before but we have some genuinely special players and characters. If we trim the fat, add the right supplementary pieces and it clicks then the future is very exciting.
 

Sp3akerboxxx

Adoption: Nabil Bentaleb
Apr 4, 2006
5,428
8,184
Apparently, since the Chelsea game we have taken less points than Man Utd, and only two more points than Chelsea.

Two clubs that are supposed to be in complete disarray.
 

Whazam

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
583
2,152
I don’t dislike him at all, I just feel he is getting a bit of a free ride and has been badly out of form for sometime. I do have an irrational view that GLC is not getting anything like the game time his cameos have warranted and what seems a much better fit Tactically. Sorry to bore you.
You don't bore me, mate. But when you question a player for what he does best, or for just getting a few minutes in a game where little worked without him, it gets a lot harder to take the rest of your points onboard.

If you still think your are fair on him, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
34,926
86,703
Last thing I'll say but I honestly believe a second pre-season will work wonders, that's where the real tactical work and fine tuning happens and where we should have a squad that Ange can call his own after a few windows.

We've gone from a very defensive minded, counter attacking mindset to a possession based, almost gung-ho one and a lot of the players experienced both styles. I think a lot of the pre-season work was probably focused on how to attack and undoing the negative tactics and it shows in our defending, but another pre-season will fix that and we should see a more balanced, long term style of play next season.

I'm genuinely excited to see how we look after another transfer window and summer work. For the first time in a long time I trust the recruitment and we've seen it all before but we have some genuinely special players and characters. If we trim the fat, add the right supplementary pieces and it clicks then the future is very exciting.
Agree. Early in the season we saw excellent performances from Vicario, Porro, VDV, Romero, Udogie, Sarr and Maddison. Several have had down periods since. Though we've seen improved performances from Johnson later in the season.

A preseason and some new signings is very welcome. I'm certainly confident that we're moving in the right direction.
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,169
5,145
Reading some of the posts in here is a genuinely depressing experience. This is clearly a season of transition and
Ok, I've got it now. We lose 4-0 (Only luck preventing much worse) and can't complain as it depresses you.

If you step outside the Spurs bubble you'll find comments here are in line with commentator/neutral observers/match reviewers.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,893
49,683
There are still some glaring gaps in the squad which, if we sort it out, will massively help Ange next season.

We need a striker.

We need better wide-man options.

We need more strength in depth in key areas such as full-back and attacking midfield.

And I don't even know what we need to do with the midfield. We have some good players in midfield but I'm not sure any of them are consistent enough to be the long term answer.

But Ange also needs to add some other strings to his bow.

He had absolutely no answers to the poor performance yesterday and that HAS to come from the manager.

I think 5th is all we can hope for this season and whilst that feels like a disappointment, it's fine considering what Ange took over.

But he needs to learn. This isn't Scotland and he doesn't have the best squad in the country by far. So that means he has to change the approach, if only sometimes.
Great points
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,893
49,683
I’ve already defended Ange and said that we need to have patience so I’m going to post the tactical areas I feel we are really struggling and what we need to do to improve them imo, both through new personnel and tweaks to our tactics.

1. Set Pieces. Simply put we are shocking on them, especially defensively. Part of the problem comes from the fact we simply don’t have any true aerial beasts in our team. Romero is ok but not amazing and VdV, despite his height is actually poor in the air.

To improve here we need VdV to develop this part of his game significantly, we need more coaching on set pieces and we need Vicario to become much more aggressive dealing with them.

Finally we could improve here by adding an aerially strong striker to our team along with an aerially strong 6.

2. Attacking Play. This is a mix of improving our movement in the final third but very importantly improving our personnel. Simply put we don’t have enough technical ability and connectivity in the attacking 3.

We need a striker who can link play more consistently and wide players who combine pace with technical ability, 1v1 skill and combination play.

Currently our attack fails to sustain attacks long enough which leads to regular counter attacks against us. With a better profiled attack we can sustain attacks longer and minimise the amount of counters we face.

3. Rest Defence. We currently build up in a 2-3 shape. At times this really allows us to dominate opponents but more and more teams are starting to exploit the 2 and counter us in the space too easily.

Now as a team who want to play front foot football and dominate possession, we are always going to be open to counter attacks. That’s just the way it is for top teams. Look at City, Scum, Pool etc, they concede chances on the counter. We concede too many though and need to control it better.

We have two ways of improving this. Firstly we need to add a number 6 who is a huge defensive presence on the pitch, who covers a lot of ground, reads the game proactively defensively but who also still has good ability in build up play. This position will make a massive difference to us.

Secondly I really think Ange needs to tweak the shape, certainly for at least some games, to a 3-2 rest defence. This could either be one of Udogie or Porro inverting to midfield while the other forms a back 3 with Romero and VdV. Alternatively the 6 would drop in to the middle of Romero and VdV and the fullbacks would both invert to midfield, with 2 from either of them or the 8s becoming the shield for the 3 man defence.

These are things that can be done both with coaching, tweaks and adding new personnel. I think all of this is achievable for next season once the players have fully bought in to Ange philosophy this season.

If we make these changes, added to our current way of playing, I think it will see us improve significantly. I see no reason Ange can’t work on this over the summer for next season.
Spot on
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,893
49,683
Spot on. What’s concerning about modern day fandom, exacerbated by the various social media sites and podcasts, is the impatience. I know every fanbase goes through this but in 5 years we’ve had (including caretakers) 8 managers (Poch, Jose, Mason, Nuno, Conte, Stellini, Mason and Ange)

Don’t want people to get me wrong, various aspects such as individual errors, tactical mistakes, set pieces, zonal marking etc warrant criticism.

However, this is expected in a manager’s first season who was dealt with cards such as Kane’s exit, after surprising everyone after the first 10 PL games faced an injury/ suspension list that curtailed momentum: ever since we’ve stuttered and it’s been very inconsistent.

Getting fed up of some saying this isn’t Scotland, Japan or Australia Ange. I’m sure he’s fully aware of this and it’s embarrassing with those that have huge followings on podcasts saying this. This is why for long periods of time I stay away from it all as rationality goes out of the window.

The optimist in me is looking forward to going to the NLD and cheering the mighty Spurs on seeing how Ange reacts to that shite display yesterday.
Yea a lot of podcasters speak a load of drivel. You go to those same podcasts after 10 games into the season and Ange is a genius and his background league experience is irrelevant and it’s a master stroke us having hired him, fast forward to a few losses and he’s a useless joker with no top level league experience, just ignore all the noise, the reality is Ange has done a fantastic job so far especially after losing Kane but of course there are areas he and the team need to improve and that will be done mostly this summer with a pre season and with hopefully some significant new signings.
 

Joe Bjorn Hotspur

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2023
753
1,843
Yea a lot of podcasters speak a load of drivel. You go to those same podcasts after 10 games into the season and Ange is a genius and his background league experience is irrelevant and it’s a master stroke us having hired him, fast forward to a few losses and he’s a useless joker with no top level league experience, just ignore all the noise, the reality is Ange has done a fantastic job so far especially after losing Kane but of course there are areas he and the team need to improve and that will be done mostly this summer with a pre season and with hopefully some significant new signings.
Most definitely @fishandricecake. With the home games I’ve managed to go to on my ST this year (the majority) this mentality/ impatience has also filtered through to the section I’m in South block 256.

I know our fans are a hard lot to please but this year the two extremes have most definitely filtered through it’s either jumping around to Freed from Desire or a complete meltdown as the season has gone on.

Perhaps this just highlights the cabin fever like symptoms that seem to be on display being a Spurs fan over the past 5 years especially.
 

Danny1

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
5,758
17,932
Ange and the players are victims of their early success at the start of the season.

The fact that we are quite a few players short of really challenging for honours and we are also a team in the first season of playing a completely different style.

Bissouma, Werner, Son (at striker) are all decent players but can be upgraded in their positions.

Sarr, Johnson, Udogie and VDV are all very young and in the infancy of their careers at the top level and will make mistakes.

Add to the fact that our best midfielder (Bentancur) has been decimated with injuries over the last year and is struggling to get back to his best, and our Talisman in Kane left the club has meant there has been a huge amount of change in one year.

Criticism of Ange is totally fine and I accept it, I cannot accept some of the comments I’m seeing though questioning his credentials etc etc. Early in the season we were absolutely fantastic and yes teams have changed their approach to playing us but we have also had some fantastic performances in general, like when we smashed Villa 4-0.

It’s going to take time, it’s going to take recruitment but I think we have as much chance, and more in my opinion, of winning something with Ange than we would if we continue to chop and change managers. That never worked before and it certainly won’t again.

Get a top level striker, move Son to left wing, and bring in a top level DM and it strengthens us no end. Let the players have another pre season with Ange and I believe we will be better next season than we are this one.
 

vinsomer

Well-Known Member
Sep 13, 2020
203
1,232
I see many faults in Ange recently, playing the suicidal high line, having players starting based on name and not form, sticking to his only formation albeit not working anymore (something Conte did and it made me mad), but for me there is one huge factor that most of our fanbase does not realize. Our attack is weak, to not say shit.

let me repeat again: we have the weakest attack options in all of the big 6. And I would go as far as to say that Villa, West Ham and Newcastle all have better players and options for attack than us. If you take out Sonny (who is not in his prime anymore) we don’t have ONE elite player upfront. Werner is shit, Johnson could become one in the future, but it’s not one right now, Kulu is not a winger and Richy is a decent striker, but nothing more. We desperately need elite players upfront for Ange’s system to work. Yesterday was a perfect example of how right now we have all the downside of his system (the defense completely exposed) without any of the upside, as our attack was completely absent. This is so true for me that if Kane had stayed, I’m 100% sure we would be fighting for the title. He is that good that having a functional, attacking team working around him would transform us into title contenders. Kane’s exit, and without a replacement, can never be understated enough

also, I think we massively overrated our midfield. Sarr will be a future star, but is not ready yet. Benta cur is still regaining form, Maddison recently is doing his best Holtby cosplay and Bissouma fooled us in the first 8 games just to return to his inconsistent, lazy self that Conte couldn’t trust, and rightfully so I would say. A functional and trustful 6 is a must for this style of play, as Rodri and Rice show for City and the Scum.

this change of personal is paramount to judge Ange’s work. Klopp and Arteta could only manage good teams when that happened for them. And although Ange is taking some very wrong decisions lately, we can’t judge him until he also have that.
 
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