What's new

Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
22,525
81,374
That’s clearly the exception to the trend of his performances. He’s been awful since he got sent off against Luton. Even the Villa game he wasn’t as good as we know he can play. He was just ok.

Bissouma shouldn’t be starting.
Malaria?
 

TEESSIDE1

Married, new job and Spurs on the up!
Jul 3, 2006
15,370
19,251
Shit results and performances are going to happen, whatever. I find it more concerning though that there's times when opponents really look like they either figured us out or have just set up in way that totally negates our play style.

We're not having problems with one player here or there having a stinker and costing us a game. We're having a problem where the entire team performs badly for periods of games after being World beaters the previous game/half/ten-minutes.

Edit:

It's either something to do with our system/style or something that enables it, or it's to do with the tactical approach (whether intentional or not) of the opposition.

Do you remember under Conte when we played 343 with Kane, Son and Kulusevski up top? but due to Conte’s negative football, a front 3 that should make the opposition shit the bed were left to feed on scraps and spent most games with their back to goal and helping out the defence instead.

Whereas with Ange not just wanting his team to defend on the half way line, he also over commits his full backs leaving us wide open on the flanks. It doesn’t matter if the opposition have a Son, Kane or Kulusevski… 3 average Joe’s would and ‘have’ had a field day against our defence when their coach ‘allows’ his team to play progressive football and exploit the vast acres of space in behind our full backs. Without us having a DM who will bust his balls to get back we have on more occasions than we would like paid the price for our kamikaze approach.

Ange’s approach is a take all or nothing… it’s madness and needs reigning in. Look at Arsenal, they play 4 centre backs across the back four yet they still dominate possession, create chances for fun, clinical in front of goal and are solid in defence.
 

Stamford

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2015
4,221
20,193
The most disappointing thing about the result is we've seen this under so many different managers.

the real job Ange has is changing the mentality of the entire club, including the board. Arsenal got it back but then the owners are winners in other sports. We need to start demanding more of the club imo, finishing fourth given what we pay and the finances involved isn't enough anymore.
 

idontgetit

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2011
14,652
31,444
Do you remember under Conte when we played 343 with Kane, Son and Kulusevski up top? but due to Conte’s negative football, a front 3 that should make the opposition shit the bed were left to feed on scraps and spent most games with their back to goal and helping out the defence instead.

Whereas with Ange not just wanting his team to defend on the half way line, he also over commits his full backs leaving us wide open on the flanks. It doesn’t matter if the opposition have a Son, Kane or Kulusevski… 3 average Joe’s would and ‘have’ had a field day against our defence when their coach ‘allows’ his team to play progressive football and exploit the vast acres of space in behind our full backs. Without us having a DM who will bust his balls to get back we have on more occasions than we would like paid the price for our kamikaze approach.

Ange’s approach is a take all or nothing… it’s madness and needs reigning in. Look at Arsenal, they play 4 centre backs across the back four yet they still dominate possession, create chances for fun, clinical in front of goal and are solid in defence.

Overcommitting the fullbacks isn't always going against us though, we've had a really good defensive record until Fulham. It's more of a question of why does Ange's approach work against Villa but completely flops against Fulham?

Why were Fulham always getting behind us and between the fullbacks and CB's? Why couldn't we play one touch pass and move footy that opens them up?

I don't thinks it's anything as simple as 'kamikaze' football.
 
Last edited:

Stamford

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2015
4,221
20,193
I don't think it's about us being gun-ho though, our defensive record was pretty good before Fulham. We have played some excellent teams this year and been solid but Fulham from the first minutes had us on toast. Always getting in space between the fullbacks and CB's, getting behind the defence and shutting out our attacking play.

our defensive record is horrible. We've conceded a crazy amount of goals
 

allatsea

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
9,045
16,349
And also, the players shit the bed collectively yesterday. That's the reason we got humbled IMO.

Same exact lot took Villa apart methodically the week before. Unless Ange instructed and trained them to do the exact opposite of what he told them the week before then I'm not sure what we're discussing.
Plus against Villa our passing to our teammates was more than decent. Against Fulham it was very often poor or plain bad. Son is as guilty of this as anyone.
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,156
5,125
And also, the players shit the bed collectively yesterday. That's the reason we got humbled IMO.

Same exact lot took Villa apart methodically the week before. Unless Ange instructed and trained them to do the exact opposite of what he told them the week before then I'm not sure what we're discussing.
I think its important to remember that it was 2nd half we took them apart and that they'd had a Euro match a few days prior. As Ange told the dressing room at HT 'They're tiring'
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,593
15,577
our defensive record is horrible. We've conceded a crazy amount of goals

We have conceded a “crazy” amount of goals only if we say 95% of the teams in this league have conceded a “crazy” amount of goals.

I mean that’s possible, but then let’s not make out it’s an Ange problem, let’s just say it’s a problem for every team in the Premier League other than Arsenal and Liverpool.

We have to say that everyone from fourth down (Villa have conceded one goal less than us) have a “horrible” defensive record.
 

Misfit

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub
May 7, 2006
21,425
35,649
I think its important to remember that it was 2nd half we took them apart and that they'd had a Euro match a few days prior. As Ange told the dressing room at HT 'They're tiring'
Right. but we controlled the game largely, crisp passing etc. And no doubt they were fatigued which helped.

I'm not even mad we lost the game yesterday. It was the manner. There was no excuse or tactical cause of their sloppiness and comparative piss poor touch, passing, movement etc.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,593
15,577
hes got to go simple as

I think our “suicide” defending is not “sustainable” and we have been “found out” and “we’ll never win anything” playing this way and we are so “naive” although Ange is a “lovely bloke” and maybe “he’ll learn” and a every other cliche we can think of.
 

Tarricko

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2022
561
1,607
I can't accept that this system can only work with VDV or some other cb with freakish pace. There's no way that Ange would knowingly set us up like that?

How did this high line work at Celtic? I know the quality is way lower but they must have been caught out a fair bit too?

Only 1 clean sheet in 19 or something? That's absolutely woeful for a top 4 chasing team.

Obligatory "I 💯 back Ange" before anyone starts.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,593
15,577
Only 1 clean sheet in 19 or something? That's absolutely woeful for a top 4 chasing team.

Yet we still have one of the best defensive records in the league.

So let’s also say Villa’s defensive record is “woeful” and Man U, and Brighton’s and West Ham’s. If words mean anything then we have to say all of these other top four chasing teams have equally woeful records.
 

-Afri-Coy-

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2012
5,886
18,773
When talking about other managers I think as much as we all love to hate him, Arteta is a prime example of giving someone time. He was a laughing stock early on and (I know it's hard for some here to admit) now he has Arsenal flying and has improved them year on year. Plenty were asking for him to be sacked, Arsenal stuck by him and now they're the best they have been since Wenger left.

This is honestly the best post I've seen since the result yesterday.

It will take time, there will be embarrassing losses along the way but we need to stick to the plan and make progress each season. Eventually we could find ourselves in a similar position.

Ange has honestly over achieved this season, all things considered.

There will be the odd kneejerk reaction here and there and that's to be expected but being patient is the most important thing we need to do here.

COYS
 

-Afri-Coy-

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2012
5,886
18,773
The most disappointing thing about the result is we've seen this under so many different managers.

the real job Ange has is changing the mentality of the entire club, including the board. Arsenal got it back but then the owners are winners in other sports. We need to start demanding more of the club imo, finishing fourth given what we pay and the finances involved isn't enough anymore.

Honestly, I'd rather we qualify for Europa or the Conference league for next season.

We aren't winning the UCL anytime soon with the other super clubs in the form and with Madrid getting so much stronger in the summer.

Have a proper crack at actually winning something obtainable, build from there. It's all a part of the process.
 

Misfit

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub
May 7, 2006
21,425
35,649
I think the system will always give up more goals than a more defensively rigid one will. It's baked in, a feature not a bug. Not catastrophic etc but just more than others.

The strength of this system is the midfield and attack. The latter area especially needs a real injection of quality to make the system work more effectively. But then isn't that true of every single system? Hardly a unique problem to solve.
 

Keith Morris

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2012
649
1,888
Some of the comments in here are unacceptable. It’s a loss and a game we should have been more competitive in and taken 3 points. Let it go and move on
 
Top