What's new

Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

FrankSpencer

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2007
1,362
4,488
Plus of the three you're missing, two have played for their countries (Spain and Brazil) and the other was our best player last night and is arguably our best player so far this season.
I was talking more about starters for their country, Vicario, Emerson and PP aren’t there yet.
 

The Long Suffering One

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2014
850
4,110
I remember being shocked when we sold Sanchez late on with no one coming in.

I thought we'll pay for that.

Now I know Sanchez was far from the complete CB, but he did have some bright spells....and he's a lot better than the current options
Especially when you also take into account the other backup CB in Dier is unwanted as well.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,844
49,662
Ange continues to do better with a limited squad than his predecessors but there is soooo much dross in the squad right now that he's hamstrung as soon as we get any injuries, let alone a lot at once.

Dier
Emerson (as a CB)
Sessegnon
Skipp
Hojberg
Lo Celso
Gil

All need to go IMO (or not play again at CB in Emersons case) plus the 5 that are still out on loan.

Ange is our best shot since Poch in getting some success whilst playing well, but Levy still needs to do a lot of work to support him.
 

HW61

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
685
3,644
I completely trust Ange’s judgement in who he starts with given injuries and suspensions.

Also believe that him stating the players are tired when most are second string, hardly played any games and we’ve not had cup games is merely him taking the flack in front of the media. I’m sure that’s him just protecting players he can see won’t be part of the medium term but needs them now.

This is the start of the journey not the end.
 

Sp3akerboxxx

Adoption: Nabil Bentaleb
Apr 4, 2006
5,428
8,184
Ange continues to do better with a limited squad than his predecessors but there is soooo much dross in the squad right now that he's hamstrung as soon as we get any injuries, let alone a lot at once.

Dier
Emerson (as a CB)
Sessegnon
Skipp
Hojberg
Lo Celso
Gil

All need to go IMO (or not play again at CB in Emersons case) plus the 5 that are still out on loan.

Ange is our best shot since Poch in getting some success whilst playing well, but Levy still needs to do a lot of work to support him.

Would like if he took the Poch strategy of his first season.

That is, bin off the players that aren't in our long term future and play some youth.

At the moment he has one foot in short-term (playing PEH, and starting Emerson at CB), and one foot in long-term (playing a tactic that those players are ill-suited for).
 

For the love of Spurs

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
3,516
11,496
Ange continues to do better with a limited squad than his predecessors but there is soooo much dross in the squad right now that he's hamstrung as soon as we get any injuries, let alone a lot at once.

Dier
Emerson (as a CB)
Sessegnon
Skipp
Hojberg
Lo Celso
Gil

All need to go IMO (or not play again at CB in Emersons case) plus the 5 that are still out on loan.

Ange is our best shot since Poch in getting some success whilst playing well, but Levy still needs to do a lot of work to support him.

thankfully our scouting seems to be better now and most of those players have 1-2 years left on their contracts so by the end of next summer I’d imagine not many will be left.
 

Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Sep 2, 2004
9,727
15,015
Both Phillips and Dorrington are better on the ball than Emerson especially Dorrington imo although Phillips has other attributes.

As I said earlier if the plan is to cement this formula into the players brains so it becomes second nature, what's the point of doing that to a back up right back who has no long term future in that role. Of he were doing an adequate job right now I'd understand, but he isn't.

As I say I don't know if Alfie is the answer. I do know 100% that Emerson is not.
This is the thing.

Year after year, manager after manager, youth prospect after youth prospect we have people on this forum who state the opinion that X manager should play X prospect because he's better than X senior player as an option.

But each year we don't see the manager put the youth prospect in. What is it that we fans on here see that every manager doesn't see. Or is it that we have an overinflated opinion on the quality of these prospects because of how they are performing in youth football? I just can't believe that we have a more informed opinion on this than the coaching staff. Aside from not being good enough the only other reason not to play the youth prospect would be strategic/political in order to bring in more senior options but I can't imagine every manager would do the same thing if there was a player there that was good enough.

Personally, I'd love to see Phillips get a go over Emerson at CB because even if he's not a better player right now last night for me was a free hit due to our injuries and Brighton are a good team (who may have injuries but still have options in every position). I would have liked to test out our defensive options.

By the way, this isn't directed at you Trix, yours was the last post on this I read.
 

Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Sep 2, 2004
9,727
15,015
Would like if he took the Poch strategy of his first season.

That is, bin off the players that aren't in our long term future and play some youth.

At the moment he has one foot in short-term (playing PEH, and starting Emerson at CB), and one foot in long-term (playing a tactic that those players are ill-suited for).
To be fair, I think he's already doing that with Dier, Lloris and some of the players that we know will probably leave but the injury list is making things more complex.

Having said that, Poch didn't do that until after about 6 months of seeing them perform mediocre and he also had the excuse of the players undermining his decisions.

By all accounts everyone has respected Ange's decisions so I don't think he's really in a position to expel players from an already depleted squad
 

TommyW

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2005
574
1,004
I can't believe people are knocking Ang for selling Sanchez! Our fans absolutely destroyed him! The poor lad was practically sobbing on the bench after being booed and jeered off at one point. There was no way back for that guy and that's on us.
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
23,829
94,561
Finally he calls the officials out,got pelters early in the season when I suggested he went on the attack and had a few rants,look where the Mr Nice Guy mode has got us,Dunk last night and Cash previously getting away with it yet reds for Romero Udogie,Bisssoma and another ban on totting up last night,plenty of other instances too,might not be very palatable for some but it works,look at Klopp and Liverpool,all the way back to Ferguson.
I didn’t see this, what was said?
I turned off straight after the whistle and ransacked the fridge.
 

carpediem1906

COYS singapore spurs
Sep 3, 2011
821
2,389
I’m not sure I understand all the whining over Emerson vs Dorrington/Phillips. That to me seems to miss the point entirely. None of the goals we gave up were on Emerson or Davies. We gave up two pens because attackers made braindead tackles. We gave up a worldie where Kulu and Johnson didn’t close down. The first goal was probably on Udogie or maybe Son for failing to track back. I’m deeply skeptical that throwing in an 18 year old cb for their debut away at Brighton would have changed things. Dier would have been shredded by Joao Pedro for lack of pace.

I totally agree our play out of the back was worse with the davies - emerson - peh triangle back there. We struggled with Brighton’s press, and we were unable to impose ourselves on the game until the structure of the game fell apart at the end. But frankly our attacking players let us down today. Kulu was awful. Johnson has been playing extremely timid since he came back with stitches. Son was off the plot, and Richy couldn’t stay onsides.

What should Ange have done differently? We’re not going to change formation or drop the line deeper. It’s better in the long run for the players to learn the system and part of what endears us to Ange is that he plays the game his way. I’m deeply skeptical that throwing in an 18 year old cb for their debut away at Brighton would have changed things. And Dier would have been shredded by Joao Pedro for lack of pace. You could argue the Gio should start either in the 6 or 10, but Gio was a defensive liability and cost us with the penalty.

We lack depth and are paying for poor squad construction and bad luck. Ange isn’t perfect, but folks are drastically over reacting. Despite giving up two awfully stupid pens, we could have still won that game today with better finishing. For me the only thing that is worrying about Ange’s tenure is our discipline record. The red cards have been a problem and the penalties today were a problem.
This is the most balanced view of the game imo and I agree with everything you said

Ange didn’t get the tactics or personnel wrong, it was more about the players not turning up

we can usually get away with 2/3 players underperforming in a match but ytd, everyone was poor bar Davies n Vicario.

Sonny Johnson Deki were very poor, Sarr n Richie poor by their standards

And so we lose.

I’d even bet that had Skipp been fit, he’d start over PEH (and that Ange wouldn’t play GLC or Sarr as #6 so no point arguing that GLC should have started)
 

For the love of Spurs

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
3,516
11,496
This is the thing.

Year after year, manager after manager, youth prospect after youth prospect we have people on this forum who state the opinion that X manager should play X prospect because he's better than X senior player as an option.

But each year we don't see the manager put the youth prospect in. What is it that we fans on here see that every manager doesn't see. Or is it that we have an overinflated opinion on the quality of these prospects because of how they are performing in youth football? I just can't believe that we have a more informed opinion on this than the coaching staff. Aside from not being good enough the only other reason not to play the youth prospect would be strategic/political in order to bring in more senior options but I can't imagine every manager would do the same thing if there was a player there that was good enough.

Personally, I'd love to see Phillips get a go over Emerson at CB because even if he's not a better player right now last night for me was a free hit due to our injuries and Brighton are a good team (who may have injuries but still have options in every position). I would have liked to test out our defensive options.

By the way, this isn't directed at you Trix, yours was the last post on this I read.

good question. What if our youth prospects are not that great or not great comparative to other prem teams?

do we throw them in to drown. Clearly if they where ready Ange would play them, as is he is playing full backs at centre back.
 

parj

NDombelly ate all the pies
Jul 27, 2003
3,773
6,228
The problem we have giving youth a chance is they won't get a run of games. If Dorrington plays, had a good game and then got dropped for 11 games, what would that do for his confidence? At the moment, a lot of our subs get 2 to 15 minutes at the end of a match so again, no point.

Better off going out on loan. I was hoping Ange wouldn't play players because they were big earners but actually play players that deserve a chance because they fit in with his philosophy.
 

Impspur1

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2014
2,564
6,285
The problem we have giving youth a chance is they won't get a run of games. If Dorrington plays, had a good game and then got dropped for 11 games, what would that do for his confidence? At the moment, a lot of our subs get 2 to 15 minutes at the end of a match so again, no point.

Better off going out on loan. I was hoping Ange wouldn't play players because they were big earners but actually play players that deserve a chance because they fit in with his philosophy.
Or…: if he comes in and is brilliant he gets a run of games because he deserves to keep his place? Competition for places is what happens sat successfully run clubs
 

Nebby

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2013
3,363
6,377
how would we even know this?
We don't. But when has that ever mattered on a football forum? Ange might make some odd decisions with his lineups, but he's no idiot. The jump from under 21 football to the PL is huge, and they are clearly not yet ready to start.
 

carpediem1906

COYS singapore spurs
Sep 3, 2011
821
2,389
Agreed. And it was daft not to start Dier last night.
I disagree. Like @Hotspur_Hero said.. Pedro would have skinned Dier alive

I counted at least 4 times where Brighton played the ball through to him and Royal was fast enough to recover and contain n prevent him from running at goal.

If it was Dier, I think Pedro would have had many more chances to bury us
 

Dzejkob

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
787
3,218
Good discussion here about our defensive options. I agree that it is probably time to give a chance to Philliips or Dorrington but I also see why Ange went with Emerson. However! I would like to point out that our forward players look equally bad as defensive players. And we probably have even worse options to rotate in there. We don't have enough quality in attack. Johnson have flashes here and there but he is not looking like Champions League level player at the moment, Son can score but thats basically it, he is pretty much useless in build up, Richarlison is not really better and he wastes so many chances. Only Kulusevski is looking like a player who can do something but he will not win matches alone. He is not Salah, Bale, Messi or Kane. Even yesterday in first 20 minutes there were multiple times where we were in the final third/penalty area with the ball and had no idea what to do next.

So in short term we need to somehow sort out defensive issues but at least we can hope for Romero and VDV to be back and they already proved this season that they are very good CB partnership. But in long term I'm more worried about our attack. We need reinforcements there. I know Maddison will be back but that's not enough, we need more quality in there.
 

JoaoPereira

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2020
698
991
Brighton were missing 9 themselves last night. I can't remember going to Brighton and not being very hopeful of a win.
the problem with Spurs is not the number of absentees per se: it's the importance of the players missing and the lack of proper alternatives. this is the manifestation of years of poor recruiting/development and inability to off load under performing players.

(unrelated to the quoted post now) anyways, more than that, I felt like this game was a reflection of the absolute piss poor composure and courageousness that has been instilled in this club for roughly half a decade. we have started the season off superbly, by being on the front foot, pressing with quality, playing through congested areas with composure. yea, we have been a bit lackluster in the last 3rd of the pitch all season long but at least we controlled the game, we dictated play, we consistently kept the game on the offensive side of the field. while some of these shortcomings derive from the first point I alluded in this comment (poor recruitment throughout the years that led to subpar secondary options), not all of them can be classified as so.

our press has become one disjointed mess. it's usually Richarlison initiating, Deki is usually on phase with him but Son and Brennan are almost never ready to join it and as a result it becomes this sort of "start/stop" closeout exercise on the CBs (some poor closeout angles to go with as well) that barely does anything against sharper sides. midfield suffers from this at times too, not conditioning key outlets and allowing teams to break the press in central areas. with Hojberg in, we have been able to recover more balls in the last third but it also leaves us more exposed due to the inability of the 2 current CBs to step up and take the half space he leaves in behind. then there's a conceptual idea I can't get my head around. we employ this full court press yet the full backs sit narrow in line with the centerbacks. we break out of that behavior here and there but when we do not, it's a struggle. time and time again teams find cross court balls or drop the wingers/fill with a midfielder on the half space above them that put a lot of strain on the defense whilst the other 2 phases are further up the pitch. one could argue that they are trying to protect this makeshift CB duo (which in retrospect they needed. Brighton started bombing long balls towards Welbeck and Joao Pedro in between the CB and the FB and they came out of it successful often) but this has been part of the identity wíth Micky and Romero available. then there's this ultra passive 1v1 technique our full backs employ when wingers face them towards the goal. a good example of this is the first goal. in that case it was actually Emerson that found himself in that position but what kind of defensive technique is that against a right footed player on the edge of the area in the left attacking flank?

not going to talk about our offensive process much, lot has been said in that regard. just going to say that the same apathy (which isn't exactly apathy, they do things, just not with the correct timing) that is shown in the defensive process, also manifests itself in possession. Brennan is a soft footballer with no interest in challenging anything that might involve contact, doesn't force 1v1s nearly as much as he should, is sloppy on the ball, misses reads all the time. Son will alternate between looking like the best Premier League footballer and a guy that looks like he hasn't played football in 10 years. yesterday he was sloppy, tentative, and unassertive. this is not a one time off either. for us to have to consistent success, he needs to find ways to impact games even when things aren't going his way. simplify play, find the easy progression. chances are that will help him engage in the game. Deki more or less the same but that's who he is. he plays at his own tempo and there are games in which teams manage to match it and his impact is greatly diminished. not going to blame Richarlison much today. for better or worse, yesterday's game reflects who he is. erratic in between lines but tremendous effort on both sides of the ball. found himself offside a couple of times but at least he showed intent on trying to break Brighton's line. other phases of play have their problems as well, but the last third has been the common denominator throughout the season and it is the one sector that has managed to avoid absences so far (fair to say Madders impacts their job massively though).

I've rambled enough already. this is the Ange thread so let's get to it. more than likely he was sugarcoating it for the press but he blamed the poor first half on lack of sharpness. if interpreting it ipsis verbis, I cannot accept that justification, not to the whole extent. if we started on the front foot, with the performance decaying as things moved into more advanced states of the game, then sure. that's exactly what happened to Brighton. furthermore, he didn't feel the need to make changes at the half which indicates that he had faith in the initial XI to turn things around. which to be fair, despite conceding two goals before really going for it, happened. the start to the second half was vastly better and the intent was there, not the materialization (reference to my front 3 evaluation). now, do I blame Ange for this sluggishness? too soon to say. some of the players have been here for several years and have displayed these same traits under multiple other leaderships so there's certainly a personell ringtone to it but there are things coaching can correct or compensate. as he manages to mould the squad at his liking these need to become less frequent. I think we're in on him for the long haul and I'm happy that's the case but in the meanwhile I hope he doesn't take the current season solely as a transition one. certain aspects need to addressed as soon as possible or else he'll quickly lose his groove.

on to Bournemouth. going to be a tough outing defensively for the full backs again, I feel like. hopefully we see improvement on that regard, both tactically and technically.
 
Last edited:

yido_number1

He'll always be magic
Jun 8, 2004
8,878
17,396
Agreed. And it was daft not to start Dier last night.
Daft would be ever playing him again, he is an atrocious defender at the best of times and in this system if possible he's even worse.

Two of the best things Ange has done is marginalise dier and hojbjerg. Clearly seen they don't fit the team and tried to use them as little as possible.

We'll be a better club when they are gone. Nothing personal against either and I actually like Dier and appreciate his previous exploits with us but neither suit this team and I hope they both find clubs in January.
 

Sp3akerboxxx

Adoption: Nabil Bentaleb
Apr 4, 2006
5,428
8,184
We don't. But when has that ever mattered on a football forum? Ange might make some odd decisions with his lineups, but he's no idiot. The jump from under 21 football to the PL is huge, and they are clearly not yet ready to start.
"Clearly" is doing a lot of work.
 
Top