Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[McFlash]

I think the ange outters have unrealistic optimism on what changing the manager will do for the club. At the start of the season if u said we had won a European cup and qualifyied for the champions league, everyone would have bitten your hand off. Yes it could be cheat mode but the way the players are behind ange and the confidence this would bring could step them all up a level next year. If he wins this sorry peeps but I'm firmly ange in.

I'm still undecided as to whether I think he should stay or go.
For a while, I was firmly in the mind-set that he has to go at the end of the season but this cup run has made me think again.
What if we stick with him? Is it a gamble worth taking?
Could it actually get better from here?
Has he learnt and is he willing to adapt?

He certainly has the vibes for what we want from a manager, he loves the game and understands what it's like to be a fan.
And how long have arsenal stuck but that insufferable scrote that is Arteta?
If we win the cup, is it worth one more chance?

Fuctifino at this stage.

 

[$hoguN]

I’ve been pretty clear on my thoughts on Ange for a long time but anyone criticising him because of the opposition we have faced in a European competition is being a dick for the sake of it.

 

[jolsnogross]

I can't understand why pragmatism is ok to win a cup game, but not ok to win a league game. I posted something similar a few days ago and some others insisted that the style isn't different, it's just the opposition is poorer. I don't think it's arguable that our europa knock out games have been based on a different tactical approach to our hopeless approach in the league.

I think Levy will have a hard time sacking him if we win the cup. And I'm not convinced either side of that argument has a much stronger position than the other side.

 

[rossdapep]

Y

My thoughts that no one cares about:

I suspect that Ange was told shortly after the ear cupping incident that he is being given until the end of the season and then they will part. That would explain why he has seemed so much more at ease since then.

I was Ange In up until the end of March. I thought we may see some tactical adjustments once the team got back to full strength but those didn't seem to come at which I became convinced that he can't do it in the Prem. I still believe Ange is a very good manager who would achieve success in every league. IMO his ceiling in the Prem is overperforming with a mid-lower level club with less match congestion (= Iraola). It's not like other leagues where you can take a break vs 60-70% of the clubs and coast to a win. It would be hard enough to deal with one of those things and play how he plays, but both? No easy opponents + fixture congestion = his playstyle is toast.

There is a part of me that wonders if he has finally learned something from the injury crisis (he says he has) + European success (jury out). It took Klopp 1 season to learn that you can't heavy metal football through the Prem and Europe and be successful. It is conceivable that it took Ange 2 seasons to learn that. Additionally, he clearly has not lost the dressing room through all of this. That plus the list of "real" manager options that fit the club's supposed newfound commitment to our history (front foot football) has me more Ange Agnostic at the moment.

Iraola - I think will run into the same scaling issues as Ange
RDZ - prick
Poch - never go back to an ex (and I have plenty of worries about his style of play)
Frank - don't think he fits the "front foot" MO
Seb HoeneB - the one that is most interesting to me.


I think he is gone regardless of the Europa final outcome, but am more open to seeing how a 3rd season would go at this point. I can see the argument for either decision.

Yeah I really don't like the idea of De Zerbi.

Picking a fight with Stellini for no reason, completely went off the boil at Brighton despite all the support he'd had, not exactly been amazing at Marseille, support of Greenwood.

 

[Snarfalicious]

Y

Yeah I really don't like the idea of De Zerbi.

Picking a fight with Stellini for no reason, completely went off the boil at Brighton despite all the support he'd had, not exactly been amazing at Marseille, support of Greenwood.

Fully agree. I’d also like to add beady eyes and looks like he could be the singer of a shitty group like Savage Garden.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Pochetino also had the likes of Kane, Son, Eriksen Vertonghen, Aderweirel, Lloris and Dele available to him, The gap in quality to what we have now is massive.

I was responding to an abrupt comment about Poch treating the cups with "apathy", not comparing Poch's achievements to Ange's.

 

[seasidespur]

Is it as simple as Ange changing to 2 number sixes and one number eight, rather than the other way around to solve most of our problems or to put it in other terms just not setting up as being bent over with our cheeks parted?

 

[Styopa]

Winning the Europa League should be seen as a success in its own right. Whether it leads to something more is another question entirely. I wouldn’t take a Manchester United win as evidence that they’ve turned a corner—they could still be a mess next season, even if they beat us in the final.

Whatever the outcome, I just hope the club has a proper plan. If we win and decide to stick with Ange, then we need to back him fully—not just with a half-hearted “let’s see how it goes.” This season, we were clearly underprepared to handle both the league and European competition. If we’re serious about challenging teams like Liverpool and Arsenal—and there’s no reason we shouldn’t be—we have to show more ambition this summer.

 

[Smokinhotspur]

Basically no one is doing that for financial reasons alone

Depends. He has had to put up with a lot both personally and professionally so may not end up being all about money. He could be totally fed up with the weird workings of TH, mole in the camp, lack of support/help from the top in the midst of the injury crisis, chopping and changing of structure and set up, lack of fully up and running medical team, personal abuse (Postenoclue etc), the list goes on.

Even from a financial perspective it's not like he has been scraping a living the last few years and you can be sure that if he added EL winner to his profile of successes everywhere else he has been, he would suddenly be able to access a higher calibre level of job that he couldn't previously. Whilst he would forego compensation by walking, also means any club that wanted to take him doesn't have to pay a release fee which then allows him to negotiate a better package in the same way that a player on a free transfer would. As he would likely secure a job fairly quickly in the usual summer manager merry go round, he'd end up worst case net neutral from a financial perspective or likely even better off.

 

[Styopa]

I can't understand why pragmatism is ok to win a cup game, but not ok to win a league game. I posted something similar a few days ago and some others insisted that the style isn't different, it's just the opposition is poorer. I don't think it's arguable that our europa knock out games have been based on a different tactical approach to our hopeless approach in the league.

I think Levy will have a hard time sacking him if we win the cup. And I'm not convinced either side of that argument has a much stronger position than the other side.

I’m not sure Levy will have that hard of a time sacking him if we win it. He sacked Poch a few months after the Champions League final and finishing in the top four; he sacked Redknapp after finishing in the top four; he sold Kane the weekend of the start of a new season; he was serious about moving the club to Stratford; he was part of the Super League plan. And on it goes.

It’s not like there would be no logic in sacking Ange either. I think even Ange’s biggest fans could foresee a situation where we win the Europa League but pick up where we left off in the league next season.

But I would be worried if the decision whether or not to keep him does come down to the final. The result of that match could come down to a dodgy last minute penalty or a sending off which changes the course of the game.

If the club thinks Ange is the right person to lead us it has to be based on more than the outcome of a single match.

 

[Shanks]

We moan about other fans diminishing the little success we get, there is always something wrong with the way we do things.

I remember watching west ham winning the conference league and being massively jealous it wasn't us.

Winning this cup would be huge, for many reasons.

Firstly, we win something, am actual trophy - not seen us come close to that for a long long time.

Secondly, gets that 'don't win amything'monkey off our back and thr list goes on, and whilst we moan about other fans 'bantering' us constantly over shit, we do it to ourselves the most.

It's not our issue who we get to play in a cup run, we just have to beat them, and winning this would be a huge success on its own right.

That doesn't make what happened in the league any better either and I am on the side that no matter what happens in this comp, Ange needs replacing because the league form has been really, really bad.

But enjoy the cup and its potential success too without belittling it anymore than everyone else will do.

 

[rambu]

 

[spurs9]

Yep, 3 league finishes outside the top 10 in 4 seasons isn't good enough.

He took over a team that had finished 4th the season before and had won 2 FA Cups in 4 years.

He also had lucky draws. Only 1 team from the top division on the way to the final, it took a reply to beat 2nd Division Oldham in the semi final. We also got taken to a reply in the final by 15th place Crystal Palace, only the 2nd top division team we've had to play!!

We should get rid despite winning the FA Cup.

Edit: Oops, thought I was on Red Cafe and it was 1990.

Obviously I'm not comparing Ande to Sir Alex, just wanted to show how ridiculous some of you sound.

Also, we haven't won anything yet, so let's calm our tits.

 

[Styopa]

Whilst he would forego compensation by walking, also means any club that wanted to take him doesn't have to pay a release fee which then allows him to negotiate a better package in the same way that a player on a free transfer would. As he would likely secure a job fairly quickly in the usual summer manager merry go round, he'd end up worst case net neutral from a financial perspective or likely even better off.

I'm not so sure about this. There can't be many managers in the league earning more than Ange—he's likely among the top six or seven highest paid. Even if he wins the Europa League, I doubt he walks straight into another top-six or top-seven job.

He might get a comparable salary at clubs like Brentford or Brighton, but there's no guarantee he'd be offered those roles either. After all, he's taken us to 15th or 16th this season. For smaller Premier League clubs, appointing him would be a real gamble—one poor season could mean relegation.

And realistically, I can't see any of those clubs offering to pay him £10 million more than his current deal, which is roughly what he'd be giving up if he walked away.

 

[Shanks]

Wasn't it only a 2 year contract anyway?

Edit - searched and it says a 4 year contract.

 

[animalmom]

If he does manage to win the Europa League, this will go down as one of football's greatest ever quotes. Imagine joining world renowned trophy dodgers Tottenham Hotspur, being continuously mocked and belittled because your experience is in "lesser" leagues, dropping a line like that and backing it up by winning a European trophy. Legendary stuff.

the smartest first question in the presser would be “ange you have won a European final in your second year, is this something you thought possible?” With a grin.

 

[Styopa]

Yep, 3 league finishes outside the top 10 in 4 seasons isn't good enough.

He took over a team that had finished 4th the season before and had won 2 FA Cups in 4 years.

He also had lucky draws. Only 1 team from the top division on the way to the final, it took a reply to beat 2nd Division Oldham in the semi final. We also got taken to a reply in the final by 15th place Crystal Palace, only the 2nd top division team we've had to play!!

We should get rid despite winning the FA Cup.

Edit: Oops, thought I was on Red Cafe and it was 1990.

Obviously I'm not comparing Ande to Sir Alex, just wanted to show how ridiculous some of you sound.

Also, we haven't won anything yet, so let's calm our tits.

But you are comparing the two situations—otherwise, why make the analogy?

Yes, in hindsight, sacking Ferguson would have been a terrible decision. But that has little relevance to the current situation with Ange. For one thing, it was 35 years ago—football has changed dramatically since then.

More importantly, as Kierkegaard put it, "life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards." We only know now that sticking with Ferguson was the right call because we’ve seen how it turned out. At the time, that wasn’t clear at all. And by the same logic, how many other managers might have succeeded if only they’d been given more time? Who’s to say what Graham, Ramos, AVB, Mourinho, or Conte could have achieved here given a few more seasons? Graham and Ramos both won trophies here. We were in a final with Mourinho.

In some alternate universe, maybe we stuck with AVB, and Pochettino ended up at Manchester United instead. Maybe we would all be talking about what a great call that was, or maybe not.

 

[animalmom]

I can't believe there are people with so much hatred for a man they'll never meet that they are letting it rob themselves of the joy of potentially winning our first trophy in 17 years.

Life's too short, and Spurs are too shit. Enjoy it.

Are you new to this internet thing ?

 

[Styopa]

Wasn't it only a 2 year contract anyway?

Edit - searched and it says a 4 year contract.

Yes, he reportedly has two years left on his contract at £5 million a year. There might be clauses that reduce the payout if he fails to meet certain targets, but even so—why would he willingly walk away from £10 million?

Sure, there are people out there who would forgo that kind of money, but they’re likely the exception, not the rule. Until he actually does it, it's safer to assume he's among the 99% who aren’t exactly keen to forfeit millions of pounds—especially considering that, at 60, he might not get another crack at a top Premier League job.

 

[Shanks]

Yes, he reportedly has two years left on his contract at £5 million a year. There might be clauses that reduce the payout if he fails to meet certain targets, but even so—why would he willingly walk away from £10 million?

Sure, there are people out there who would forgo that kind of money, but they’re likely the exception, not the rule. Until he actually does it, it's safer to assume he's among the 99% who aren’t exactly keen to forfeit millions of pounds—especially considering that, at 60, he might not get another crack at a top Premier League job.

He won't walk away from it and nor should he be expected to either, surprised that's even a thing being discussed