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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

-Afri-Coy-

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2012
5,818
18,523
No, you misunderstand me. We can point out issues, but the way that some are doing it, seemingly to take great glee in being able to jump back on their favourite past-time of bashing Spurs. There are huge glaring issues in the squad that have been exposed. No-one when the injuries and suspensions happened was predicting much more than losses in the forthcoming games, and yet, when it happens and we actually play quite well, we get some of the most ridiculous nonsense I've ever read.

As for what helps me sleep at night, my antidepressants, magnesium, and some sleep patches that have melatonin and lavender oil in, ideally also a diffuser on with some good oils.

I prefer a good fat Bob Marley to help me sleep but different strokes for different folks.

PS. Thank you for clarifying, I understand your perspective better now
 

glacierSpurs

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2013
16,163
25,472
Lol that when we were unbeaten and top of the table some of our fans said nah, not gonna get carried away until Christmas. When the reverse happened, some of our fans are not even looking to Christmas as time to gauge Ange's pragmatism, if any, and bravery.

Talking about bravery, he's the fucker who played at half way line against chelscum with 9 men which we could have taken the lead at 2-1 or probably equalised at 2-2. If that's not bravery I don't know what is. Idiotic pundits were no doubt holding their breaths when we almost did the impossible and likely heaved a sigh of relief at full time because that's when they could finally dust off their guns and fire away. I don't wanna say our fans are the doing the same, but I'm sure it won't take long before some do. Just when I thought the stars are aligning and pieces falling together, we are back to some unbelievable cursed rotten luck in injuries and decisions because we were in no way losing the last 3 games with a full stength starting XI.

Ange is doing the best he could because he hates losing than anyone of us. He will continue to grind into the lads to win any game and every game, whatever the outcome, because that's the only way to get out of the mentality that gripped some fans where 'City is a write off, we should concentrate on West Ham.'
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,599
98,956
All I read on here for months was that people didn't care about results and they just wanted to watch good football. I always knew that was nonsense but didn't think some would buckle so quickly.

If anything the Villa game has given me more confidence. If he can get that performance out of a mainly second string - with a squad that isn't full of his own players then great things are coming.

Mate, im buzzing lol.

Fuck a few lost points in the interim, if this is the aim of our football long term under Agne.

The points will follow.

Exciting attacking football will yeild more points long term when Agne finalises squad building/shaping.

But you start changing the DNA now and laying new foundations.

How do some people not see this....
 

13VanDerBale13

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2011
14,228
33,585
Unfortunately for him & us, our quality of depth in defence will let us down, until we finally recruit sufficiently, like we should have done in the summer.
 

JW72

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2011
704
3,204
I said this exact point at the time. All competitive sport is first and foremost about winning and losing for me. Do I want to be entertained? Of course I want to win pretty, but being pretty is not my priority, that would just be a very welcome biproduct.

I'm getting a fair number of disagrees with some of my posts right now because I am daring to question some of Ange's decisions, and that is fair enough, I understand not everyone has the same competitive nature I do, and I know some of you prioritise entertainment over results.

It doesn't mean however I don't see what Ange is trying to achieve, nor does it mean for one second I think he is not the right man for the job. I very much do. I am very willing to give him plenty of time to achieve that, and I accept in order to get there we will almost certainly lose a number of games whilst we are working towards that. I will however continue to be critical if I think he has made mistakes, and he has and will continue to do so, just like Klopp, and Pep do from time to time.
I don't think disagrees are because you are "daring" to question some of Ange's decisions (why is that daring by the way? What risk is there associated with questioning Ange's decisions on an internet forum - other than getting some red crosses from random strangers?). I think it's because there is a large section of the fanbase, particularly those of a certain age, who fundamentally disagree that attractive football is merely a welcome biproduct of winning. That doesn't immediately mean those who hold that view are happy with mediocrity or don't have a "competitive nature", or don't desperately want to see us winning trophies.
But, as someone who knew a bit about winning once said: "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It’s nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It is about doing things in style, with a flourish...”
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,179
57,174
The disappointments and dropped points are so much easier to stomach with Ange and his philosophy. Nobody who's taken points off us so far will be thinking it was easy. The last 3 games with zero points had us tearing the opponents to shreds at various points. It's brave stuff and it will take longer than a few months for it to become engrained in all of the players. Hopefully the ones who show a tendency to withdraw when the going gets tough will be shifted on promptly - we know who they are, and will be replaced with others who can get with the programme a bit more. We knew there would be bumps in the road.
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
8,847
24,557
Unfortunately for him & us, our quality of depth in defence will let us down, until we finally recruit sufficiently, like we should have done in the summer.
I don't disagree and think most would agree that the squad is unbalanced. I think we can also mostly agree that Levy has previously left us short in the past and so may well do in the future.

Just not sure the point needs to be made repeatedly in pretty much every single topic.
 

Nick-TopSpursMan

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2005
3,977
18,761
All I read on here for months was that people didn't care about results and they just wanted to watch good football. I always knew that was nonsense but didn't think some would buckle so quickly.

If anything the Villa game has given me more confidence. If he can get that performance out of a mainly second string - with a squad that isn't full of his own players then great things are coming.

Amen. I've seen enough to know Ange is an unbelievable coach and can lead us to great things if we are patient.

That doesn't mean he isn't going to make mistakes, that doesn't mean he is perfect but my God this man just gets us and he has Spurs DNA. He actually believes in our club motto.

It's absolutely vital that the fans stay behind the manager and team and appreciate the circumstances. The only reason we have lost 3 games in a row is because we have been obliterated by an unprecedented amount of injuries. I'm not aiming this at anyone criticising him btw, I mean generally as fans in the ground we need to stick with him and believe in him.

The first 10 matches showed how good Ange is. He lost Kane and yet completely transformed our style of play in a matter of weeks to produce our best league start since 60/61, playing beautiful, attacking football.

He gets what Spurs are all about and he shares our beliefs over how the game should be played.

If we give up on him during this bad run (which will continue for a while imo) then I actually think I may give up on our club. I strongly believe Ange has already shown that he can bring us a lot of joy and success. What that success looks like, I don't know as football is brutal and it's hard to win trophies. What I do know though is Ange will give it a very good go!

After 4 years of utter shit and darkness with Mourinho, Nuno and Conte, it feels good to have Spurs back playing the football our club should always play.

And I tell you this much, we sure as shit have more chance of winning major trophies playing this style of football than the murderball we've endured since November 2019.

COYS!!!!
 
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13VanDerBale13

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2011
14,228
33,585
I don't disagree and think most would agree that the squad is unbalanced. I think we can also mostly agree that Levy has previously left us short in the past and so may well do in the future.

Just not sure the point needs to be made repeatedly in pretty much every single topic.

Im just emphasising that there’s not much Ange can do, with the tools at his disposal.

This is what he’s been handed & we just have to hope we out score teams until Jan.

He could do with another forward too, as we don’t have many consistent goal scorers.
 

ReadieSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2011
821
2,593
Unfortunately for him & us, our quality of depth in defence will let us down, until we finally recruit sufficiently, like we should have done in the summer.
CB aside, i think our squad is pretty good. The trouble is, we've had to play all of them together at the same time. If you only sub in 1 or 2 at a time due to injuries, they are absolutely fine. we've just been f*'d over by the amount of injuries/suspensions all at the same time.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,205
77,110
We hounded out a proven winner at the top level in the Prem and Italy becuase the fans didn't like the style of football and could not take him openly calling out the players for letting a 3-1 lead slip against a club doomed to relelgation.

Top 4 wasn't good enough for many Tottenham supporters, with a squad that was inferior to what Ange has now (and most will tell you that Ange still needs 4 or 5 upgrades). That's our fan base for you.
Sorry but that is complete nonsense. Fans were not complaining about our league position last season. They were complaining about our style of play. It's the style if play you can only accept if winning things. If you're challenging top 4 then you have to at least enjoy watching the team play and be proud. It's as if you're detached from the clubs dna that our fans are connected too.
 

-Afri-Coy-

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2012
5,818
18,523
Sorry but that is complete nonsense. Fans were not complaining about our league position last season. They were complaining about our style of play. It's the style if play you can only accept if winning things. If you're challenging top 4 then you have to at least enjoy watching the team play and be proud. It's as if you're detached from the clubs dna that our fans are connected too.

I don’t recall many fans complaining about the style of play during that first half of a season either. Top 4 and we were playing decent football, close to what Conte would expect but not perfect. Majority of fans were happy with the finish given how we started the season, and were excited to see what we would do with the right additions and a pre-season under him.

The problems and therefore complaints came 10 or so games into the new season.
 

PLTuck

Eternal Optimist
Aug 22, 2006
15,743
32,707
I'm not even slightly worried. On another day Son starts his runs 1,000ths of a second later, gets a hat trick and we win comfortably.

It was always going to be a roller coaster season.
 

-Afri-Coy-

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2012
5,818
18,523
And some of us want more than just that.

I want us to win, over and above anything else. How we get there is secondary too me.

It’s glory glory Tottenham Hotspur, not entertaining entertaining Tottenham Hotspur.

We need wins and inevitably trophies to justify that chant, that’s what glory entails at the end of the day.

FWIW I’m happy with Ange, but as always bitterly disappointed that we’ve once again been left short after a few injuries and suspensions. Is adequate squad depth too much to ask after not having any for like 5-6 seasons now? I don’t think so.
 

arnoldlayne

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2007
1,107
1,173
Taking off an attacking player for a defensive one when we were losing with 15 minutes to go.
Nothing to do with the player being tired on 71 minutes having not started previously this season?
We already had a team that had 4 FB's and 4 wingers and no defensive MF starting - due to our injury & suspension problems

The options available from the subs still available were:
Skipp, Dier, Forster (GK), Veliz, Austin (GK), Donley, Dorrington (Hjoberg already replaced Bentancur)

Who do you think should have been put on instead?

It's all very well criticising when there is a full squad with long term injuries or suspensions but these games have been in very trying circumstances - not to mention building a team without Harry Kane for the first time in nearly a decade.

I've noticed you, Hercules & Grey Fox have disliked several of the posts defending Ange - not really sure why?

I don't think disagrees are because you are "daring" to question some of Ange's decisions (why is that daring by the way? What risk is there associated with questioning Ange's decisions on an internet forum - other than getting some red crosses from random strangers?). I think it's because there is a large section of the fanbase, particularly those of a certain age, who fundamentally disagree that attractive football is merely a welcome biproduct of winning. That doesn't immediately mean those who hold that view are happy with mediocrity or don't have a "competitive nature", or don't desperately want to see us winning trophies.
But, as someone who knew a bit about winning once said: "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It’s nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It is about doing things in style, with a flourish...”
Great post
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
19,182
327,907
Nothing to do with the player being tired on 71 minutes having not started previously this season?
We already had a team that had 4 FB's and 4 wingers and no defensive MF starting - due to our injury & suspension problems

The options available from the subs still available were:
Skipp, Dier, Forster (GK), Veliz, Austin (GK), Donley, Dorrington (Hjoberg already replaced Bentancur)

Who do you think should have been put on instead?

It's all very well criticising when there is a full squad with long term injuries or suspensions but these games have been in very trying circumstances - not to mention building a team without Harry Kane for the first time in nearly a decade.

I've noticed you, Hercules & Grey Fox have disliked several of the posts defending Ange - not really sure why?


Great post
Donley 100%! He literally can't do any more For England, in PL2, or in training.

As for why have we disliked the posts defending Ange? The youth issue is a big one, and what I will say is that there are some fairly unhappy people at the club that they aren't seeing any minutes at all, when we are thread bare and up against it. The thought is if they can't get minutes now then maybe they never will. If Ange would rather play numerous back up players out of position than give them game time then it's a concern. Especially as some of these players could look elsewhere because they will have choices, and they 100% have admirers that would take them in a heart beat.

There has to be a pathway even if it's just 1 or 2 breaking in because if there isn't all of Paratici's excellent work with the academy will be ruined.

There are certainly many many positives right now with what he is doing but there are negatives too, and they have to be acknowledged imo or it could cost us down the line.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
I said this exact point at the time. All competitive sport is first and foremost about winning and losing for me. Do I want to be entertained? Of course I want to win pretty, but being pretty is not my priority, that would just be a very welcome biproduct.

I'm getting a fair number of disagrees with some of my posts right now because I am daring to question some of Ange's decisions, and that is fair enough, I understand not everyone has the same competitive nature I do, and I know some of you prioritise entertainment over results.

It doesn't mean however I don't see what Ange is trying to achieve, nor does it mean for one second I think he is not the right man for the job. I very much do. I am very willing to give him plenty of time to achieve that, and I accept in order to get there we will almost certainly lose a number of games whilst we are working towards that. I will however continue to be critical if I think he has made mistakes, and he has and will continue to do so, just like Klopp, and Pep do from time to time.

I think there's an argument to say that the competitive nature's may be equal but as your last paragraph reflects, it's a different opinion on results short term vs long term. I see some necessary suffering in the short term for hopefully the ultimate prizes and so seeing Ange get the tune he did with the players he has available is far more important to me than the result vs Villa, though admittedly with City dropping points like they are, I am somewhat feeling like there's something there this season and it's been challenging to keep my head in the stay the course mindset. Where me and you agree most I think is that again, If we going to drop points, I'd rather have lost with Phillips on the pitch and really commit to those long term goals.
 
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