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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

FinnYid

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2006
5,319
5,656
He didn’t buy the players is what I mean in regards to leaders - yes he selects the captains etc
Which had to be done while new in job as previous captains moved on. Now don't see Romero, Son or Madders as much of a leaders, but we were lacking in that department and reckon choice of captains were limited to ones that he saw playing constantly. That left few potential ones out at that point.
 

JJetset

Lurking in the shadows of threads...
Oct 4, 2004
3,143
32,390
Always appreciate your posts mate, but 15 minutes!? Try 18 months!

A relegation battle puts a different light on things too, doesn't it!?
Do you know how long it takes to change a culture in an organisation ? Overnight or a year ? Look how many players have been let go since he’s been there, change takes a very long time and football isn’t as easy as business either. I would say to impart his winning mentality ( which he is) on this club will take 3 years. Now has he been supported with winning purchases in the market or has he been given young players that have better potential and value ? I mean Odobert ffs sums it up. It’s been the same the last 15 years under DL and I know for a fact that he has let down his managers and they haven’t got who they wanted or who we went for and all the excuses come out but they are facts.
 

Thenewcat

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
3,866
13,215
Wages to turnover can appear misleading. Our turnover is higher than a lot of those above us in that table, so the ratio is likley to be lower. Our wage bill is only 3M lower than Villas, but becuase our turnover is so much higher it paints a skewed picture in terms of ratio. It also fails to take into account other running costs - for example does it cost more to run our stadium and training ground than it does Villas for example?

Not making excusues for ENIC, I beleive they could do more if they were minded to, just think it is not as clear cut as it looks.
Mate that’s what a ratio is, it’s not skewed at all. We make far more revenue but pay the same wages as Villa. There’s nothing misleading about it. We’re a club that prioritises making money over success on the pitch
 
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mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
46,111
92,544
As an aside, what a pro Ben Davies is. Great head to have in the dressing room.
He's outlasted so many managers. It's just a matter of time before he is our next manager. He's taken the best of Poch, Jose, Conte and Ange to form some sort of super manager.
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
9,684
39,657
Do you know how long it takes to change a culture in an organisation ? Overnight or a year ? Look how many players have been let go since he’s been there, change takes a very long time and football isn’t as easy as business either. I would say to impart his winning mentality ( which he is) on this club will take 3 years. Now has he been supported with winning purchases in the market or has he been given young players that have better potential and value ? I mean Odobert ffs sums it up. It’s been the same the last 15 years under DL and I know for a fact that he has let down his managers and they haven’t got who they wanted or who we went for and all the excuses come out but they are facts.

My simple question is, what convinces us that Ange is that man to change the culture or he is that man to takes us on the right path. Honest answer is, he hasnt shown us. Opposition has worked us out for a long time, but we play the exact way giving chance after chance....merely depending on a fit Van de Ven to sprint 5 times in a game to save us (including in those first 10 games of his reign).

Question of what Levy is doing at top should be viewed different to whether Ange is the right man for the job.
 

Led Revolver

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2012
1,088
3,964
Do you know how long it takes to change a culture in an organisation ? Overnight or a year ? Look how many players have been let go since he’s been there, change takes a very long time and football isn’t as easy as business either. I would say to impart his winning mentality ( which he is) on this club will take 3 years. Now has he been supported with winning purchases in the market or has he been given young players that have better potential and value ? I mean Odobert ffs sums it up. It’s been the same the last 15 years under DL and I know for a fact that he has let down his managers and they haven’t got who they wanted or who we went for and all the excuses come out but they are facts.

Any thoughts on the fact that his methods are breaking all of our players? And there has been next to no signs of progression in the 18 or so months he’s been here, this pre dates the need to fit out a waiting room in our medical department!

What will it take for some people to realise that we are crashing and burning at such a fast rate. It feels like the only thing left for him to do is to set fire to the training ground to completely destroy everything!?
 

Lifelong

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
887
2,179
Disagree that Ange has no responsibility for this. He strikes me as someone with excellent understanding of leadership and the process of identifying and creating leaders in a group. He chose Maddison and Son to fill these roles, which was daft. He has chosen to ignore prioritizing on field leadership. And if he doesn't address this Pronto along with the recruitment team, then this will be a major reason he'll fail here and be sacked.

I'm hoping for a turn around. But allowing flaky characters to dominate the team and leadership roles is an error of his since the start.
The thing with leadership on the pitch I feel is that true leaders take it upon themselves, it’s not a badge to be dished out. And it’s clear as day we don’t have any…and haven’t done for years. The signs are there with Gray and particularly Bergvall but their age is probably holding them back…it shouldn’t.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
48,040
109,630
I'd take Mbeumo from Brentford though. In a heart beat.

I would assume if it was Frank he’d want him and be wise to make it a condition of his appointment. Mind you know us we’d tell him we will sign him just to get Frank to sign on the dotted line with no real intention of following through on the promise.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
22,578
372,191
Daniel is standing firm on Ange despite some of those around him losing faith.

I have to say it is a pleasant surprise to see him go against the grain and back a manager rather than take the easy way out, but he is adamant he doesn't want another interim guy in charge and would rather see if Ange can dig himself out of this hole.

Saying all that we have been sounding out other options, but I guess that is just par for the course when we are in the situation we are. And of course he needs to put his hand in his pocket and help him out if he really believes that strongly in the guy.

My personal view throughout was he was the wrong man for the job, mainly because his way and Enic's way could never work together(I do have other concerns). What I will say is if Levy does persevere with this, and actually backs him with more than just words, I might have to re-evaluate my view of whether he should go now or be given the season. Perhaps (and it is only perhaps), levy might just have learnt something from what he's done with previous managers, and that would be something I'd like to see play out.
 

JJetset

Lurking in the shadows of threads...
Oct 4, 2004
3,143
32,390
My simple question is, what convinces us that Ange is that man to change the culture or he is that man to takes us on the right path. Honest answer is, he hasnt shown us. Opposition has worked us out for a long time, but we play the exact way giving chance after chance....merely depending on a fit Van de Ven to sprint 5 times in a game to save us (including in those first 10 games of his reign).

Question of what Levy is doing at top should be viewed different to whether Ange is the right man for the job.
Not if Levy is the one that approves the player purchases
To be successful with players you have to scratch backs and pay too much and pay agents and pay high wages but you HAVE to do that if you want to compete with the others who we want to.
He is a fantastic and ethical businessman and he genuinely loves the club And wants the success but dealing in football you can be the smartest businessman and best deal maker but you cannot beat the system when it comes to buying top players and all the shenanigans that come with that. We won’t do that and that’s great and we will buy younger players but we will never compete with the best for the ready made items as we won’t play the game. He’s been burnt a few times so won’t do it.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
19,549
39,335
Kinda feels like we’ve never many leaders. Even in Poch team I didn’t think we had any. This team is pretty weak on that front though. Should’ve made Davies captain.
 

Martin91

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2014
691
1,716
Daniel is standing firm on Ange despite some of those around him losing faith.

I have to say it is a pleasant surprise to see him go against the grain and back a manager rather than take the easy way out, but he is adamant he doesn't want another interim guy in charge and would rather see if Ange can dig himself out of this hole.

Saying all that we have been sounding out other options, but I guess that is just par for the course when we are in the situation we are. And of course he needs to put his hand in his pocket and help him out if he really believes that strongly in the guy.

My personal view throughout was he was the wrong man for the job, mainly because his way and Enic's way could never work together(I do have other concerns). What I will say is if Levy does persevere with this, and actually backs him with more than just words, I might have to re-evaluate my view of whether he should go now or be given the season. Perhaps (and it is only perhaps), levy might just have learnt something from what he's done with previous managers, and that would be something I'd like to see play out.
Or is that just levy not wanting to spend money to sack him….
 

shelfstandspur

Thinking about procrastinating
Dec 13, 2006
77
147
Do you know how long it takes to change a culture in an organisation ? Overnight or a year ? Look how many players have been let go since he’s been there, change takes a very long time and football isn’t as easy as business either. I would say to impart his winning mentality ( which he is) on this club will take 3 years. Now has he been supported with winning purchases in the market or has he been given young players that have better potential and value ? I mean Odobert ffs sums it up. It’s been the same the last 15 years under DL and I know for a fact that he has let down his managers and they haven’t got who they wanted or who we went for and all the excuses come out but they are facts.
Great to see you posting and giving your perspective.

I agree with everything you say here. Add in the injuries there is a whole lot of reasons to give him time; and to see some further change in the clubs culture.

There is just this frustration that he hasn't been pragmatic/flexible/etc. enough to deal with this period of injuries/the tactics that the other managers are clearly applying to us/his approach in probably the hardest league in the world.

And that is why it could be the end for him. And I will be sad for him and also as we start with another manager yet again while the culture behind the manager hasn't changed enough.....
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
58,637
114,086
Do you know how long it takes to change a culture in an organisation ? Overnight or a year ? Look how many players have been let go since he’s been there, change takes a very long time and football isn’t as easy as business either. I would say to impart his winning mentality ( which he is) on this club will take 3 years. Now has he been supported with winning purchases in the market or has he been given young players that have better potential and value ? I mean Odobert ffs sums it up. It’s been the same the last 15 years under DL and I know for a fact that he has let down his managers and they haven’t got who they wanted or who we went for and all the excuses come out but they are facts.

No manager can change the culture here. Levy sets the culture and that filters right down through the Club.

A manager coming in cant change the culture which is set by his employer.

What we need is a manager who can work under him and get the best out of what he's given.

Until Levy goes that's the best we can hope for.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
48,040
109,630
I hate it. It is so nasty to undermine the manager whatever you think of him that way. It happens almost every time, can you even imagine the snakes in our boardroom. If I take my Spurs hat off not in a million years would I want to play or manage at this club.

I’m pretty confident he’s done now that story has been released and you’re right, why would you want to manage us now?

Sure there are a lot of pros but the cons are massive too. Probably explains why we’ve buggered up the last couple of manager searches. Anyone decent or with a brain turns us down. Those that don’t have no understanding of the club or are just looking for a pay day once they are sacked a year and a half later with little damage to their reputation (we are the Aldi Chelsea).
 

FinnYid

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2006
5,319
5,656
Daniel is standing firm on Ange despite some of those around him losing faith.

I have to say it is a pleasant surprise to see him go against the grain and back a manager rather than take the easy way out, but he is adamant he doesn't want another interim guy in charge and would rather see if Ange can dig himself out of this hole.

I have image in my mind on Ange being on hole and Daniel watching wether he can come out of it himself instead of giving a rope to help it out.
 
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