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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Ange In or Ange Out?

  • Ange In

  • Ange Out


Results are only viewable after voting.

carpediem1906

COYS singapore spurs
Sep 3, 2011
953
3,108
I don’t agree with this at all.

We have got a lot of top quality players that many clubs would love to have. This isn’t a knock on Ange but look what happens at other clubs when a good manager comes in and gets them playing.

All of a sudden Forest have got an amazing squad, Bournemouth, Brighton etc etc. We and others weren’t saying this a year or two ago! The manager has found a rhythm and got everyone singing his tune is all.

It was the same with us under Poch. Yes we need a couple of top quality additions but the squad as a whole has a lot of talent in there.
So are you saying we have a squad that should have the following record in last 49 league games:
W19
D7
L23

So 64 points with a 39% win rate and 1.3points per game?

If that's what you think is par or even close to par for this squad then fair enough. If you don't then ask yourself why those are the stats. Why are we 14th in mid January and likely 15th before we next play? Could no one do better?
Squad on paper vs reality is quite different.

Take these points

1. Sonny. He was top scorer in Conte’s full season. Tactics suit him to a tee. And Kane was KDB-ish that year. But he can’t seem to make those outside the box shots or crosses anymore, not forgetting his loss of pace and poor backs to goal hold up play.

Is it tactics / managerial or player declining?

2. Injuries & “luck”. Odobert, new signing, played 3-5 games? Richie same. Moore got virus just when he was getting a run. Bentacur never could play 5 matches in a row. Vicario’s also very unlucky. Even Cuti’s recent quad injury isn’t the hamstring one that afflicts Davies Destiny VdV

These are all important squad or first xi players that never got to contribute.

3. Form. Deki n Porro are the biggest victims of no rest here. Biss also to a certain extent.

Johnson Timo Son Madders form very much dependent on results, they play well when we are winning, they hardly do when we are losing.

Maybe I should have phrased it better, I meant in my post that we are suffering results wise because we don’t have the squad to cope.

of cos I agree that this squad should be doing better, and if it’s just the 3 hamstring of Destiny Davies n VDV only, I think we would be much higher up.

but it’s like context and circumstance don’t matter to a lot of you, just results.

4. with better squad depth and quality - left back and right winger - just these 2 plus allowing Gray to play CDM to see if he’s the answer there - and recoveries from injuries, then yes we have a squad that can compete for top 4-6.

right now tho? Squad is 6-8th and with these injuries and circumstances, squad is 8-10th level. IMO of course
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
22,691
373,369
Matt Law apparently saying - can't read the whole article - that Postecoglou will not be undermined and that the squad can no longer sit around and wait for the manager to be sacked when they fail to perform or step out of line.
If it's true it's a big thing for sure, but the proof is in the actions not the words. Let's see how true to the words we are when it comes to losing money on the players that have to be moved out as a consequence. Let's see if they are willing to get the players out quickly or have them hanging around and stink the place out because we could get an extra mil or two in a years time.

I also want to see how Ange treats the players that have been letting him down. Let's see if he makes it clear to them what they have been offering up is not acceptable. We had it early on in Pochs reign where Harry and a few of the other boys stood up to the senior players and Poch made the very difficult but correct choice of going with the youth over experience. I would like to see the same here, and I personally would afford him more time(I'd actually be encouraged to back him) if I saw him benching the likes of Son, Bissouma and Madison in favour of the youth when they don't perform to acceptable levels.

It can't just be empty veiled threats that either the club or Ange don't back up with actions.
 

jurgen11

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2004
2,227
5,426
Vast majority of our tickets are pre-sold via Season Tickets - Levy already has the money.
Not going to games harms the team - they get less support/ atmosphere (albeit it ain't great a lot of of the time)
Not buying merch / F&B is a good start.
Said before if you could get 1,000's of fans / ST holders to commit to a pleage not to buy replica shirts and make a big PR thing of it that would make the sponsors / kit makers put pressue of Levy.
i have has a ST for 30 years and have never bought anything direct from the club. I used to collect pin badges from the geezers selling outside the ground but when they banned them all and set up Official Club shop vendors I stopped...i did once kick a small piece of wall off White Hart Lane and took it with me when I emigrated for a couple of years as a keepsake
 

davidclarke

Well-Known Member
Nov 23, 2014
130
306
But if the boss isn't clear on what's required, and not providing direction, then is it the coaches or Ange that's the issue?
The information was that they are told what they have to achieve and what the outcome should be. Whatever anyone’s feelings on Ange, I think one point that seems clear is that he’s quite a straight talker. If they’re being told what the outcome should be, and are being told clearly, then I think this one is on them if they don’t know how.

I’m not trying to make an Ange in or Ange out point here, but I have long been concerned about the standard of coaches around him. He doesn’t come with staff and the hires that we put in place (with the possible exception of Davies maybe?) didn’t seem to have the sort of CV you would expect to see. Part of this will also be on Ange of course. An ‘opportunity’ for work experience for Mile Jedinak should not be a primary focus for our club. If he’s not up to it then he shouldn’t be here, same as all the others
 

jakuba

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
807
2,571
From October time, I had been adament that he needed a few months more.

The reason for that is that if you have had some good signs (the big wins) you need to stick it out a little longer to really see if there is any sustainability in that,

I understand where people are coming from when they say "It's not going to work" as there can be signs with that too, but I would rather give things a real fair chance before pulling the cord. And we've done that a lot at Tottenham.

However, after the Forest and Wolves performances, that's where I started to lose and doubt Ange.

Even through tough periods and bad form, a capable coach can pull off the odd good result and performance. We haven't had that for a while now.

One one hand, I said if we were around midtable and pulling off a good result every 3 or 4 games, h should get the season but on the flip side I did state that if things got desperate in the league and we still had chances in the cups AND if there was a real suitable coach available, then I'd be very tempted to take that option because we are now entering 'bust' territory.

The Liverpool performance and result was really encoraging but he's followed it up with 2 rotten performances that put him back in the 'hanging by a thread' territory.

The next 2 games will tell us a lot.

2 good performances and 6 points and I think he gets the season as long as we qualify for EL (which we should do)

Anyhing less and I think it'll depend on that second leg versus Liverpool.

Get a tonking there and he's gone I think as you would no longer put faith on him winning cup ties.
If we can’t beat Everton and Leicester we’re going to get our pants pulled down and our little todger shown to the entire world at Anfield.

Even with our injuries we should be absolutely battering the opposition the next 4 games. Away at a dross Everton, away to the 16th team in Germany having an even worse season than us, home to relegation bound Leicester then at home to Elfsborg who are out of their regular season.

If he can’t find a way to win those 4 games we’re utterly fucked going into the away game at Brentford who are solid at home then away to Anfield.

On our current run of form we are on to find further lows we didn’t think possible. Some of our defenders are supposed to be back in the next couple of weeks so we will see how much of a difference they will actually make - I suspect not one jot and our same issues will persist as long as Ange is here.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
58,701
114,392
I think Son is a massive problem. He's the captain and draws huge interest world wide.

The Club say that senior players are letting Ange down....this includes Son, probably the first name that comes to mind.

Then why the fuck does Ange keep picking him (see paragraph one)

Richarlison can play wide left, there is no excuse to have him starting on Sunday
 

Mark_147

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
2,105
3,726
Probably because we actually have a long term strategy. We've signed a lot of young prospects, the academy has been improved and now we have genuine potential to come from there. Things are bad now but we have literally knocked everything down and built form the ground up. This season is a massive write off but we are showing more of a plan than Utd and West Ham. Whether it pays off remains to be seen and I'm not sure if Ange is the best person to develop them. He hasn't been anywhere long enough to know. I can at least understand why people want to give him more time to find out though.
We were targeting Eze and Gallagher as our number one targets in the summer window, failed to get them over the line and then signed Odobert and Gray. How's that a long term strategy. Had it not been for injuries these players wouldn't of even got all these minutes in the PL. How's that a strategy.
 

SA_Spurs

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
1,124
1,680
If it's true it's a big thing for sure, but the proof is in the actions not the words. Let's see how true to the words we are when it comes to losing money on the players that have to be moved out as a consequence. Let's see if they are willing to get the players out quickly or have them hanging around and stink the place out because we could get an extra mil or two in a years time.

I also want to see how Ange treats the players that have been letting him down. Let's see if he makes it clear to them what they have been offering up is not acceptable. We had it early on in Pochs reign where Harry and a few of the other boys stood up to the senior players and Poch made the very difficult but correct choice of going with the youth over experience. I would like to see the same here, and I personally would afford him more time(I'd actually be encouraged to back him) if I saw him benching the likes of Son, Bissouma and Madison in favour of the youth when they don't perform to acceptable levels.

It can't just be empty veiled threats that either the club or Ange don't back up with actions.
This!! 100% this! If there is a way out of this situation its the above. Our situation needs accountability from everyone, chairman, board, ange, coaches, medical team & players! It's a collective effort to be a winning club!
 

eddiebailey

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2004
8,253
8,796
We were targeting Eze and Gallagher as our number one targets in the summer window, failed to get them over the line and then signed Odobert and Gray. How's that a long term strategy. Had it not been for injuries these players wouldn't have even got all these minutes in the PL. How's that a strategy.
Ange has been clear that Gray was an investment for the future and not dependent on other signings.
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
13,396
18,873
Well you've fell at the first hurdle there then.
Not me mate, us as a Club.

This has been my main point throughout. He isn't going to get those players, no manager under Enic ever will.... NEVER EVER!
So let's all pack it now shall we, because we're then resigned to a life of chopping in and out a manager every 18 months and football mediocrity.

That is exactly why I have been campaigning for a coach who adapts to what he has rather than one who makes the players adapt to their system and philosophy.
Still needs the players though. Name me one coach like this in the last 5 years who has created the level of success we're aspiring for here? You simply can't. Because even if we do this, we still need better quality players.
 

Mattyhp

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
121
756
I’d still give Ange rest of the season and next season to be honest (just a personal opinion). I’m just done with no manager being given the time, or tools or combination of both and repeating the 1-1.5 seasons per manager since Poch. I genuinely can’t muster up the enthusiasm for another 6 month managerial search and reboot.

If your Ange out, you might well be bang on the money and his football or tactics won’t work, and “things will be different” under an adaptable manager.

But more importantly we need to start bucking the trend of sub two seasons per manager. I think it is too short a period to properly assess, and I’d wager that this constant chopping and changing is part of the reason we are now ending up with 4/5/6th choice coaches. There are of course exceptions to this rule, but I don’t think we have reached a point where sacking him now benefits us for the remainder of the season

it’s a huge 4/5 months for Ange but he deserves to get bodies back and try and turn this around. Then a proper debrief can be had in May. Whilst I’m not overly optimistic on him turning it around, I’m bloody praying he does as it means we might finally get some stability again!
 

0-Tibsy-0

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
12,644
49,966
Right winger for me as I’m losing patience with Johnson tbh. I’m not that far away from you tbf, think our squad is pretty good. Few players we need to get but that’s the case most summers to be honest
-Right winger with some dribbling ability willing to take on a defender.
-Left footed defender with pace (cover, rotation, competition for VdV+Udogie)
- all round CM with some defensive instinct and is an upgrade on Bissouma and Sarr.

Would be my 3 priorities.

Then a player that can rotate with Solanke if there is no realistic future with Richy.

I also think Porro could be upgraded (especially defensively) but fully understand that isn’t a priority given more glaring holes.
 

davidclarke

Well-Known Member
Nov 23, 2014
130
306
If it's true it's a big thing for sure, but the proof is in the actions not the words. Let's see how true to the words we are when it comes to losing money on the players that have to be moved out as a consequence. Let's see if they are willing to get the players out quickly or have them hanging around and stink the place out because we could get an extra mil or two in a years time.

I also want to see how Ange treats the players that have been letting him down. Let's see if he makes it clear to them what they have been offering up is not acceptable. We had it early on in Pochs reign where Harry and a few of the other boys stood up to the senior players and Poch made the very difficult but correct choice of going with the youth over experience. I would like to see the same here, and I personally would afford him more time(I'd actually be encouraged to back him) if I saw him benching the likes of Son, Bissouma and Madison in favour of the youth when they don't perform to acceptable levels.

It can't just be empty veiled threats that either the club or Ange don't back up with actions.
Absolutely this. And I am wondering if we are starting to see this now with Bergvall edging out others for a starting position in midfield. I don’t fully buy into the reasoning that we would be better when all our players back, but on this specific point maybe this process could have been accelerated if it was not for the injuries. For example, I wonder how many minutes Mikey would have got on the left if he was available… how quickly would Archie have nailed down a midfield spot if he wasn’t covering in defence etc.
 

okc1992

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2024
315
928
And sacking them is out of sight out of mind stuff.
Which Ange just said was always the plan with a new head of performance. It's pretty common for someone new to bring in new people and our medical team has been bad for years so I'm glad they're making changes.

Not sure why this is a stick to beat Ange with.
 
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