What's new

Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Ange In or Ange Out?

  • Ange In

  • Ange Out


Results are only viewable after voting.

jay2040

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,188
5,144
How would Tim have done with 9 first team players out and the rest playing on fumes as a result.

I'll judge Ange when he has a normal injury list for 3 months. I'll also judge Ange if we're still having the same crazy levels of injuries next season.

He has managed us since last season. Next season? I hope he is gone by then
 

ComfortablyNumb

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,858
7,307
Levy gets pelters for hiring Ange due to him being “out of his depth” - our fans wouldn’t be happy if we had appointed a manager who hadn’t managed at the top level, regardless of their qualities. Besides, Maresca’s working with one of the most expensive squads ever assembled whilst we’re relying on square pegs in round holes.
They are only square pegs in Ange's round holes. A better coach would find round holes for all of them...
 

mattspur1986

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2007
1,482
7,339
Nope, didn't say that. Of course we have to win some games, and we have done that. I just want to enjoy the football we play at the same time, and under Conte the football was awful to watch, for the most part.
If conte had THIS squad, no way he’d of served up the turgid shite towards the end of his reign. The fact he got champions league football with the squad he did is not talked about enough.
IMG_1064.jpeg


this is the squad he had at his disposal when we thumped Arsenal 3-0.

I know which group of players ( ON PAPER ) I’d take.
 

Rout-Ledge

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
10,746
26,060
A big sign for me last night was when we scored and I didn't cheer. That's the most depressing thing right now. It's a north London derby but the goal didn't mean much to me. I can't enjoy it unless we get a few goals up. I did cheer the 2nd goal against Chelsea but again it wasn't enough so now now I can't believe we will win a couple goals ahead unless it's nearly over.
I felt the same. I would’ve loved a win yesterday and I was pleased when we scored but I just knew it was going to count for nothing in the end.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
48,077
109,831
Firstly, things in the league are bad. But yesterday's game doesn't change that.

Things in the cups, however, are currently good.


In terms of watching us play - I think a lot of people forget watching that turgid shit under Conte. It was awful. What is shit now is the results we're getting in the league, if you don't enjoy watching the football, then that's just a bit odd IMO.

We arent going to go anywhere in the cups mate. We could end up in the extra EL round too at this rate. People need to stop hanging their hats on this. Change the manager and we will have a great chance though.
 

jay2040

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,188
5,144
Yeh that sit back with a low block and try and hit them on the bounce for a 1-0 win was edge of your seat stuff. ;)

Ok maybe I'm being a bit cynical there, but I much preferred Ange's first season where we got 5th and narrowly missed out on 4th, versus Conte's first season where we got 4th.

Ange hasn't finished his second season yet, and until we're out of the cups or in a proper relegation battle I'm not going to judge him.

Ypu forgot how shit we were towards the end of last season.
The league position is embarrassing and surely that should be enough to judge him.
 

okc1992

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2024
315
928
When was the last time we had a manager with us down in this position? Must be Ramos a long time ago and that was only 8 games into the season. Sorry but it's nonsense to say we will be in this position in 18 months. We haven't been in this situation much of at all in 18 years let alone months. We are literally the sort of position we were in the 90s and we called in Klinsmann to help us.
The premier league is the most competitive it's been. Villa and Newcastle are competing for champions league with the big 6 ans you have Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth and Fulham who are really well run.

So yeah we have young talent but so do those clubs. If we don't bring the right manager in we will be here again. We don't have world class players in this squad to lift us.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
19,578
39,438
Sorry, I'm the odd one for cheering a goal against the scum to put us 1-0 up? :confused:
I cheered big time as even though ot was against the run of play and the signs weren’t good, it gave me hope. We were 1-0 up after all. But surely, seeing as you wrote this game off ,you didn’t mind that much that we couldn’t even get to HT at 1-1?
 

Ghost Hardware

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
21,762
86,464
This is true, but I think we can all agree that Johnson isn’t even the kind of player we needed for this system. Ange should’ve recognised that and said no to it. I can understand why we signed Maddison.
I am by no means a Johnson fan and if anything he'd be one of those i'd be looking to sell come summer if we intend to continue with a possession based system but I can actually see why Ange might have thought he was the right fit.

What Johnson does very well is get to the back post and score. That is one of the primary attacking remits of our wingers - hug the touchline, run into space behind at speed, get to the byline then put in low crosses/cut back OR get to the back post for a tap in.

Johnson does pretty much all those things to one degree or another. Last season in all comps he managed 5 goals and 10 assist, this season he is already on 12 goals and 3 assist so even on paper he seemingly fits the system like a glove. In regards to numbers on the bored he is one of our best players. Obviously tho that doesn’t equate for how effective he is in helping us achieve success across the entire 90 mins.

Given his age I’m fairly confident that Ange believed the technical skills that were lacking when we signed him would develop and improve with more time on the pitch playing the role he is currently tasked with. I mean that’s what a good 70-80% of people on here were saying throughout his first season.

It’s only recently that many are starting to come to the conclusion this is not something that he will likely ever learn. And yes whilst you would be right in thinking a professional premier league manager should know better the simple fact is they often don't. There are quite a few very successful managers who's talent ID is lacking to say the least.

Now obviously Johnson's technical development hasn’t happened and really the scouts at the time should have made it abundantly clear that bloom we were hoping for was very unlikely to happen. Tbf I seem to remember ITK suggesting at the time that at least one, I think it was Gabbanini, was against the signing due to concerns of his limited profile.

Point being, I can actually understand why a manager might have believed Johnson would develop into the perfect winger for this system. I just think it was a misguided belief and one that should have been curtailed by the recruitment department.

Really I think the Johnson transfer, amongst a few others, hints towards a larger issue. So often we fans come in here and say the manager has to get the players he wants or the system wont fully function. For me it should always be more about what a manager needs rather then what he wants which is why the role of the DoF/technical director is so vitally important.

When you take a step back, we brought in a manager who had next to no high level experience. Really the only time he faced good opposition at club level was in a handful of CL games. Whilst he might very well have a clear idea of what skills he believes are needed to make his system work, the level of opponent they worked against in the past is far bellow what he is facing now. Thus the profiles that made his system work back at Celtic and Marinos don't necessarily translate to the Premier League.

Obviously you could take that one step further and say maybe the tactics themselves are equally limited and that bullheaded belief in their ultimate success is crux of the problem. There is very likely a valid argument to be had there. But we have put in some excellent displays against some of the best teams in the country and I still don't think we have a full team of players capable of playing his system to know for sure its a complete bust. Whilst there are signs that it might never click for us we can't say definitively ether way until he has a full squad of players that can play the type of football we are trying to play. If he ever gets it is a different topic of discussion.

Regarding Ange's preconceived requirements, it's fairly common issue with all mangers when they change leagues. The point is that this is where Lange + the recruitment team needs to step in and tell him that we need players with higher technical ability if we wants to play his high press, fast, fluid possession system successfully in the Premier League. Ange can not be the one demanding specific players when he has little to no hands on knowledge of the competition. Profile of player, sure, but then the recruitment team has to understand the brand of football we are trying to employ in conjunction with the league we are competing in and thus make sure everyone we acquire has a base level that allows that system to successfully function.

Technically limited players are a major stumbling block for any team attempting to play possession football at the very highest level.

For what it's worth I do think that realisation has slowly started to dawn on them and we have tried somewhat to rectify this last summer. We wanted Eze and Neto. We brought in Bergvall, Gray, Yang and Odobert. All of whom are far more accomplished in possession then Johnson, Radu and Werner. Yes we reloaned Werner but I think that was likely more to add an extra body in an area we were lite for a low fee in the hopes it would allow us to spend more elsewhere. We then went out and got Kinsky who again is more technically accomplished with the ball at his fee then Vic.

But at the moment we are left with a bit of a Frankenstein Monster of a team that is partly built for transition/counter football and partly built for possession. This miss match has only been further exacerbated by injuries. And whilst I have question marks about Ange in a greater sense I do think that the current build of the squad is just nowhere near good enough to play the system we want to play.

Now obviously then comes the argument, should Ange change his system to adapt to the players we have. Well maybe but then why bring in Ange in the first place. Why hire a manger who plays a certain style then be outraged as to why he isn't changing the way he plays. Ether get him the players he needs to play his system or don't hire him at all. So far we still haven't go him the players he needs.

But this is well trodden ground for COYS Daniel and co

All that said I do think if we make the right transfers this window and we get some players back then we could start to click more frequently. I really do not believe it is a lost cause.... yet. But as I mentioned already in a previous post, a player like Muani (if you rate him or not) was very clearly not a profile that would have improved us where and how we are currently most lacking so that does really worry me some. A useful addition, sure, but no a player that fixes one of our biggest attacking problems that is certainly having a significant effect. If we don't buy wisely and swiftly then this project could go up in flames very very quickly.

It certainly feel like we are fast approaching a tipping point and one way or another this month will be decisive on our short and long term future.
 

Rout-Ledge

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
10,746
26,060
Firstly, things in the league are bad. But yesterday's game doesn't change that.

Things in the cups, however, are currently good.

In terms of watching us play - I think a lot of people forget watching that turgid shit under Conte. It was awful. What is shit now is the results we're getting in the league, if you don't enjoy watching the football, then that's just a bit odd IMO.
The league form is fundamental. Yesterday’s defeat was obviously expected, but it was another missed chance to get some points and relieve the pressure. We can afford to lose the trickier games if we win the games against the likes Everton and Leicester. But losing to Arsenal just puts even more pressure on us and Ange to win the next two. If we don’t, he’s gone for sure.

Also to suggest the cups are ‘currently good’ is a tad misleading. We botched the Tamworth game by requiring our players to play additional minutes against a non league side when we’re already over stretched. We are somehow not in the top 8 in the Europa League which will also require us to play extra games. Neither are ‘good’. We are in the league cup semis with a first leg lead, which is good.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
46,196
92,884
Sorry, I'm the odd one for cheering a goal against the scum to put us 1-0 up? :confused:
I'm just responding to you calling me odd for not cheering. I could say the same. It's a bit small time to be honest. Yay we scored against the mighty gooners. Fuck that. I'll cheer when we grow a set and not bottle this fixture like we've done so many years. Our form there is a joke.
 

TimNiceButDim

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2014
172
1,271
How is it Nuno, Hurzeler, Iraola, Frank, Silva etc don’t need specific players to make their systems work?

They coach the players they have in order to make them a better fit and then tweak the system to suit their individual talents.

We all know Son isn't the player he was but if you're a PL Manager, with a legend like that in your team, and the best you can get out of him is what we've seem this year, then you're waaaay out of your depth.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
41,064
99,917
Nope, didn't say that. Of course we have to win some games, and we have done that. I just want to enjoy the football we play at the same time, and under Conte the football was awful to watch, for the most part.
In the second season, yes. It was beyond toxic.

But I'd contest that in his first season we were playing brilliant football, certainly after Kulu, Bentancur and Romero came in (oh look, a January window where we actually improved)... miles better than anything I've seen this past 18 months.
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
13,396
18,872
If conte had THIS squad, no way he’d of served up the turgid shite towards the end of his reign. The fact he got champions league football with the squad he did is not talked about enough. View attachment 150338

this is the squad he had at his disposal when we thumped Arsenal 3-0.

I know which group of players ( ON PAPER ) I’d take.
Just so I understand your point - you think our current squad (i.e. the one that was available yesterday) was better than the squad you posted above?

If so, mate, have a word.

Firstly it has Kane in it, prime Kane no less. And also prime Son, combining with prime Kane in the PLs most effective ever attacking duo in its history.

I'd happily have had PEH and Bentancur in midfield for us yesterday over Sarr and Bissouma.

Lloris over Kinsky for sure.

Sanchez and Dragusin are about the same level IMO.

Gray is great, but Dier or Davies both have far more experience at CB.

That only really leaves Porro over Royal (although Porro is knackered right now and that leg twist in the first half can't have helped) and Spence over Sess.
 

Rout-Ledge

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
10,746
26,060
Conte’s first season the opposite of Ange’s - he took a side who’d flunked the opening 10 games and took it to top 4. Ange took a side who’d aced the first 10 games (admittedly under his leadership) and somehow flunked top 4.
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
13,396
18,872
We arent going to go anywhere in the cups mate.
Can I get the lotto numbers for Saturday please?

Until we aren't going anywhere in the cups let's at least reserve judgement. We need a draw against Liverpool, in the competition that they are least focused on this season and then we're in a final. It might not happen, but writing that off already is madness.

We're going to get through to the knockout in UEFA, possibly without the extra tie.

We've got a winnable game for us in the next round of the FA cup.

Will we win a cup - history says probably not, but we can't write-off our results form in the cups so far this season.

We could end up in the extra EL round too at this rate. People need to stop hanging their hats on this. Change the manager and we will have a great chance though.
Or we could win both games or even win one and draw one and make it through in the top 8.
 
Top