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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Ange In or Ange Out?

  • Ange In

  • Ange Out


Results are only viewable after voting.

Jamturk

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2008
10,454
24,431
That's fine, but it's not Ange's fault is it?

I agree that some of the players let him down, again. But many of those players are running on fumes right now and we really have incredibly limited subs - apart from Maddison and Johnson last night we had very little to bring on to impact the game.

How many managers do we have to go through to understand that the players we have are not good enough?

I think we're at no 4 now.

We are a poison chalice of a club all talk and no trousers.
 

Impspur1

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2014
4,113
9,850
If our seasons were to to end in the next couple of weeks with exits in Europe and The league cup, would we stick or twist and try and get a new man settled and tactics in place for next season?
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
13,396
18,873
I love the fact that pointing out obvious tactical problems is considered soft by some.
It's not, and that's not what I was referring too.

Having a meltdown after losing away to the scum, given our record there over the last decade, instead of understanding the situation we're in right now, is the bit that is soft.

Ange really does have a bit of a cult of personality with some of our fans. I guarantee if Nuno was here producing these results there wouldn't be anywhere near this level of support for him injury crisis or otherwise.
Because as we all know, it's not just about the results, it's about the style of play.

We're playing exciting football that's fun to watch. We're getting results in the cups, which many fans would probably agree is a priority for us this season over the league, and we're in the middle of a massive injury crisis whilst also facing the most amount of games we've played in a 2 month period in as long as I can remember.

We were also massively let down on the transfer front this summer and have done fuck all to address that so far despite being half way through January.

It's not about a cult of Ange, it's about looking at where we are as a club and understanding the challenge we have in front of us.

Don't get me wrong though, we do need to start winning some of the "winnable" premier league games we have coming up, but away to Arsenal is one of those few fixtures that should be given a pass each season in terms of result.
 

gerishep

Connected to the Spurs.
Aug 2, 2004
1,318
2,189
Yeh cause having 4 out of your 5 first choice back line including GK out injured won't cause any problems will it? Come on dude, if any other team in the prem had that level of defensive injury crisis they would also be getting hammered.

I just don't think people fully understand the extent that playing Kinsky (brand new to the league and young), Dragusin (best case he's 2nd choice CB), Gray (18 FFS and NOT a CB) and Spence (not a LB) has on our ability to be effective against teams defensively.


No we weren't. We had the highest goals scored and least amount of goals conceded (and thus best GD) in the league. We were starting to get some form together. 12 games in and we were 3 points off 3rd FFS.


I just don't buy this, sure his training method is intense, but he's not the only manager in the world asking a lot from his players. I also doubt that the mass sacking of our physio team recently isn't unrelated to this. I think he was at fault for playing Romero and VDV in the Chelsea game, but outside of that I don't think he can be blamed much.
We still lost, and it doesn't alter where we are in the league.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
46,202
92,904
Thing is I'm not Ange out until the summer. He needs to do a hell of a lot to stay beyond that though. But if we do get dragged towards a relegation battle this brand of football is not suited. We will probably need to change sooner if we don't pick up some wins soon.

However I don't really agree with us being in the same place in 18 months time. We won't be this low in the table. We were actually not nearly as bad as people thought. We were qualifying for Europe season upon season so I'm happy to get back to that. We have an exciting young group of players coming through. I don't think it would take too much for things to start looking up again. We just need a young manager who will develop those players and can adapt.

The biggest conflict I feel is people saying back the manager which is absolutely still the case. Yet that's just the fantasy. The reality is we don't back the manager so we need a manager who will adapt to fit us not the other way around. We do have to put pressure on Levy as well but in the meant time we are a club now signing prospects and we need a young adaptable coach go fit that. If we manage to get a takeover down the line then we can get these seasoned managers to win things. We also need to stop this obsession about winning titles because it's also fantasy until change at the top level happens. In the meantime we are better than this so change will need to be made again soon.
 
D

Deleted member 13663

It's not, and that's not what I was referring too.

Having a meltdown after losing away to the scum, given our record there over the last decade, instead of understanding the situation we're in right now, is the bit that is soft.


Because as we all know, it's not just about the results, it's about the style of play.

We're playing exciting football that's fun to watch. We're getting results in the cups, which many fans would probably agree is a priority for us this season over the league, and we're in the middle of a massive injury crisis whilst also facing the most amount of games we've played in a 2 month period in as long as I can remember.

We were also massively let down on the transfer front this summer and have done fuck all to address that so far despite being half way through January.

It's not about a cult of Ange, it's about looking at where we are as a club and understanding the challenge we have in front of us.

Don't get me wrong though, we do need to start winning some of the "winnable" premier league games we have coming up, but away to Arsenal is one of those few fixtures that should be given a pass each season in terms of result.

We're not playing exciting football that's fun to watch though? Where is that notion coming from? Outside of maybe 2-4 games across the season the defending has been laughable and the attacking has been inconsistent at best and turgid at worse.
 

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
13,683
45,409
Well Levy not going to sack before him end of this window, otherwise he'd have to back the new manager.

Think Liverpool loss in the 2nd leg of the semi will be fatal for Ange. Then Managerial Merry-go-Round starts again.

Levy will wait until all the injured players are back and then sack him before he has a chance to use them, so the new manager gets good results straight away and it looks like he made the right decision.

Make no mistake the number one conversation going on in the boardroom right now will be how do they come out of this looking like it's not their fault.
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
13,396
18,873
How many managers do we have to go through to understand that the players we have are not good enough?

I think we're at no 4 now.

We are a poison chalice of a club all talk and no trousers.
We've jettisoned the following players since the Jan window of 2023.

Royal, Lo Celso, Dier, Rodon, Sessegnon, Ndombele, PEH, Skipp, Winks, Sanchez, Moura, Lloris & Doherty.

And of course sold Kane during this time too.

Where we fucked up was in 2018 summer under Poch, everything that has happened since has been as a result of massive under investment during those couple of summers (18 & 19).

We are, however, finally in a place where we do have some quality players and a fairly rounded out squad. What we need is A) everyone back fit and B) 2-3 top quality ready for now players through the door to make it all click.

That being said I think we'll be very lucky to get A) and knowing Levy there's no chance of sorting B) this window.
 

okc1992

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2024
315
928
We don't need a world class manager to fix things.

We need a coach who:

- Can make a squad look better than the sum of it's parts by utilising and maximising the strengths of the players.
- Coach passing and movement techniques.
- Teach our players to press effectively in phases.
- Work with and mould younger players.

Maresca has done this brilliantly at Chelsea. When he came in, he made their defensive structure sound and told the lads to play their football in attack. A solid defensive base with free flowing attacking football.

You can't tell me there isn't a single manager out there that can replicate this. Maresca was a gamble on paper, and look how he worked out. He didn't need 18 months and a brand new first team to do it either. Now before anyone argues Chelsea's spending before he arrived I am aware of that. But the overall point still stands.

We need to hire a proper head coach, not another "manager". Preferably young and upcoming with modern tactics.
You definitely don't watch enough of Chelsea to think they are defensively solid. They've conceded 13 goals in their last 8 games, since Fofana got injured and haven't won in their last 5 games.

Maresca got £200m worth of talent to be on pace for the same number of points as last season. So yeah Maresca hasn't done brilliantly and unless he stops this bad run quickly he won't be there long.
 

cliff jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,884
8,881
It's not, and that's not what I was referring too.

Having a meltdown after losing away to the scum, given our record there over the last decade, instead of understanding the situation we're in right now, is the bit that is soft.


Because as we all know, it's not just about the results, it's about the style of play.

We're playing exciting football that's fun to watch. We're getting results in the cups, which many fans would probably agree is a priority for us this season over the league, and we're in the middle of a massive injury crisis whilst also facing the most amount of games we've played in a 2 month period in as long as I can remember.

We were also massively let down on the transfer front this summer and have done fuck all to address that so far despite being half way through January.

It's not about a cult of Ange, it's about looking at where we are as a club and understanding the challenge we have in front of us.

Don't get me wrong though, we do need to start winning some of the "winnable" premier league games we have coming up, but away to Arsenal is one of those few fixtures that should be given a pass each season in terms of result.
shall we just forfeit the fixture in the future?

They were hardly great or near full strength. Just like in the reverse fixture.

Levy has panicked in the past when we've been near the bottom. And actually signed good players. He fkin certainly needs to find a way in the next 2 weeks.
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
13,396
18,873
We're not playing exciting football that's fun to watch though? Where is that notion coming from? Outside of maybe 2-4 games across the season the defending has been laughable and the attacking has been inconsistent at best and turgid at worse.
Fundamentally disagree here. The league results haven't been fun, but the way we play, or at least try to play, has been fun to watch. I'd take a 6-3 loss to Liverpool under Ange's style of football over a 1-0 win under Conteball all day long.

Our defending hasn't been that bad either. Again we were 3 points off 3rd/4th at a third of the way through the league season (12/13 games). So it's a massive misnomer to say we've been shit.

We've been shit, in the league, since the start of December, which coincided with A) our biggest amount of fixtures over a 2 month period for a very long time and B) a massive injury crisis in our team.

edit: lol at the disagrees - trying to work out which of the 3 sentences these are for, assuming the first one as the second two sentences are just facts. Seems like people just want results regardless of the style of play...
 
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ernie78

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2012
7,748
16,476
Levy gets slated about only winning 1 cup during his tenure so I do wonder if sacking Jose a week before A cup final is playing on Levy’s mind here. Were the only club Jose didn’t win something at and Levy stopped his opportunity (not going to get into how shit we were etc)


now he is faced with making a decision on a manager that wins something in his 2nd season and has one foot in the final of 1 cup and is still in 2 others.

I might be way off but if levy sacks him and we go out of all 3 you just know people will be “you should have given Ange the chance, he always wins something”
 
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Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,796
59,445
We were poor last night but ultimately undone by errors. One by the officials (who seemed to let Arsenal wrestle at every opportunity, but gave a free every time they fell down) and then Bissoumas, compounded by Dragusin for the second goal.

Last night a chat group im in saying Ange hasn't a clue how to handle it, but couldn't come up with a way of changing it to give us a chance of an equaliser. Give him time, give him the players he wants. We won't be relegated, there are far worse teams in the league. Lets take a breath and move on.

We hit the post in the dying seconds and had them under a fair bit of pressure to be fair.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
22,056
46,976
We're not playing exciting football that's fun to watch though? Where is that notion coming from? Outside of maybe 2-4 games across the season the defending has been laughable and the attacking has been inconsistent at best and turgid at worse.

It really does seem as though this has become a mantra people roll out to convince themselves that things aren’t that bad - but I really don’t enjoy watching Spurs play - our attacking is very one-dimensional and our complete lack of any control or defensive solidity isn’t “entertaining”, it’s just shite.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
46,202
92,904
A big sign for me last night was when we scored and I didn't cheer. That's the most depressing thing right now. It's a north London derby but the goal didn't mean much to me. I can't enjoy it unless we get a few goals up. I did cheer the 2nd goal against Chelsea but again it wasn't enough so now now I can't believe we will win a couple goals ahead unless it's nearly over.
 

okc1992

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2024
315
928
Thing is I'm not Ange out until the summer. He needs to do a hell of a lot to stay beyond that though. But if we do get dragged towards a relegation battle this brand of football is not suited. We will probably need to change sooner if we don't pick up some wins soon.

However I don't really agree with us being in the same place in 18 months time. We won't be this low in the table. We were actually not nearly as bad as people thought. We were qualifying for Europe season upon season so I'm happy to get back to that. We have an exciting young group of players coming through. I don't think it would take too much for things to start looking up again. We just need a young manager who will develop those players and can adapt.

The biggest conflict I feel is people saying back the manager which is absolutely still the case. Yet that's just the fantasy. The reality is we don't back the manager so we need a manager who will adapt to fit us not the other way around. We do have to put pressure on Levy as well but in the meant time we are a club now signing prospects and we need a young adaptable coach go fit that. If we manage to get a takeover down the line then we can get these seasoned managers to win things. We also need to stop this obsession about winning titles because it's also fantasy until change at the top level happens. In the meantime we are better than this so change will need to be made again soon.
Whilst I agree, if we don't get the right manager in we will be here again in 18 months regardless of the young talent. Every premier league team has really good players now.
 

RJR1949

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2013
1,296
7,178
Indeed, we have to be realistic in who will come in, when Ange gets the bullet. It won't be a manager with a huge successful CV so any thoughts of that might as well stop now. It needs to be someone who.......

understands coaching and doesn't just delegate it all to someone else
Looks at what he has and how to get the most out of them because he's extremely unlikely to get a team of what he deems optimal
Studies the opponents strengths and weakness and prepares the players for that specific task ahead
Has good game management. If something isn't working in game change it.
Spot on

Basically Ange has only one idea, one way of playing, all the other managers know what to expect and how to counter it and his methods strain players (the number of hamstring injuries is a feature not an accident).

I had hopes but he’s a busted flush and will be gone before the start of next season.
 
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brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
13,396
18,873
shall we just forfeit the fixture in the future?
Nope, but we should not wet the bed if we lose it by a single goal, as that it what we most often do in this fixture.

They were hardly great or near full strength. Just like in the reverse fixture.
They had two defenders out, although arguably Timber, Saliba and Gabriel are all first choice, as is Raya their GK. So at most they had 1 first team player from their back 5 missing. We had 1 player from our first team back 5 available.

The only other two players of note they had missing were Saka and Jesus. Yes that's a couple of key players for them, but Jesus has only scored 3 goals in 17 league games for them this season, so really not a massive miss.

Levy has panicked in the past when we've been near the bottom. And actually signed good players. He fkin certainly needs to find a way in the next 2 weeks.
Agree on this point.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
46,202
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Whilst I agree, if we don't get the right manager in we will be here again in 18 months regardless of the young talent. Every premier league team has really good players now.
When was the last time we had a manager with us down in this position? Must be Ramos a long time ago and that was only 8 games into the season. Sorry but it's nonsense to say we will be in this position in 18 months. We haven't been in this situation much of at all in 18 years let alone months. We are literally the sort of position we were in the 90s and we called in Klinsmann to help us.
 

Dazzazzad

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,617
6,081
It blows my mind that people are still using injuries as an excuse for him turning us into relegation candidates. Firstly, we were absolutely shite before the injuries kicked in, and for 2/3 of last season. Secondly, his methods may well be causing the injuries, why the hell does anyone think all these players are just going to all come back and the injury crisis will end?
We were not absolutely shite at all. Our on field performances and metrics were right up there. We weren't getting the points our performances warranted but we were miles better than last season.

Even now on this awful run and decimated by injuries (and the remaining guys playing out of position in 4 comps during the most congested part of the season, plus with illness thrown in) we still have a top 6 goal difference and have only lost one game by more than a goal in over 30 games this season.

We are decimated and on fumes but remain competitive on the field.

If we can get more bodies back I feel confident we can get the 20% boost that takes us from losing games by one goal to draws and wins.

But if he doesn't get a fit squad performing or the injuries keep going into next season - I'll feel a lot more comfortable moving on.
 
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