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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Ange In or Ange Out?

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Rout-Ledge

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
10,750
26,072
We were poor last night but ultimately undone by errors. One by the officials (who seemed to let Arsenal wrestle at every opportunity, but gave a free every time they fell down) and then Bissoumas, compounded by Dragusin for the second goal.

Last night a chat group im in saying Ange hasn't a clue how to handle it, but couldn't come up with a way of changing it to give us a chance of an equaliser. Give him time, give him the players he wants. We won't be relegated, there are far worse teams in the league. Lets take a breath and move on.
The worst record of any PL era Spurs manager and it’s all down to bad luck. Ange must be cursed or something…
 

Joshua shepherd

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2013
1,553
3,840
We don't need a world class manager to fix things.

We need a coach who:

- Can make a squad look better than the sum of it's parts by utilising and maximising the strengths of the players.
- Coach passing and movement techniques.
- Teach our players to press effectively in phases.
- Work with and mould younger players.

Maresca has done this brilliantly at Chelsea. When he came in, he made their defensive structure sound and told the lads to play their football in attack. A solid defensive base with free flowing attacking football.

You can't tell me there isn't a single manager out there that can replicate this. Maresca was a gamble on paper, and look how he worked out. He didn't need 18 months and a brand new first team to do it either. Now before anyone argues Chelsea's spending before he arrived I am aware of that. But the overall point still stands.

We need to hire a proper head coach, not another "manager". Preferably young and upcoming with modern tactics.
They haven’t won in five games, let’s see how well he’s done come the end of the season.
 

mabolsa_ritchey

aka Hugh G Rection
Oct 23, 2005
1,550
2,154
Just looking a bit more in depth at the form table for the last 6 games paints a more concerning picture than I had assumed to be the case last night.
Wolves and Ipswich have both taken 7 points in that period while we’ve taken 4. For arguments sake let’s just assume right now that the form for all 3 teams continue until the end of the season, they finish on 36 points and we finish on 35.
One of the 3 teams below us in those tables, Everton, has just replaced their manager too.
Make no mistake, we’re not sleepwalking into a relegation battle, we’re already in one.
 

joshua_snodgras

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2008
222
579
It blows my mind that people are still using injuries as an excuse for him turning us into relegation candidates. Firstly, we were absolutely shite before the injuries kicked in, and for 2/3 of last season. Secondly, his methods may well be causing the injuries, why the hell does anyone think all these players are just going to all come back and the injury crisis will end?
We've been shite pre postecoglou too don't forget
 
D

Deleted member 13663

The excuse is the same as it has been for the last couple of months - we have a massive injury crisis and a team of players who are overplayed and knackered. It's not even close to bordering on gaslighting, it's the reality of the situation. Unfortunately we have far too many "soft" fans that think that we should just win regardless of the circumstances. Yes we also have some soft players, but some of our fans are just as soft, if not worse.

As for Tamworth - they didn't win it, we did, o there's little value in "what ifs" because if we start down that road then we can "what if" a load of other things, like the Newcastle game, the corner that wasn't a corner last night etc... etc...

I love the fact that pointing out obvious tactical problems is considered soft by some.

Ange really does have a bit of a cult of personality with some of our fans. I guarantee if Nuno was here producing these results there wouldn't be anywhere near this level of support for him injury crisis or otherwise.
 

gerishep

Connected to the Spurs.
Aug 2, 2004
1,318
2,189
All managers live or die by their results ultimately, but I really think this is a situation where we have to acknowledge how huge the impact of the injuries has been, and that they completely change the context of how the season has gone so far, and how we should be planning for the future. It's not just the number of injuries we've had, but the specific players that have been out and, more importantly, the players that have come in.

It's one thing having an injury crisis, but we've had an extreme injury crisis at the worst possible time, when we're halfway through a rebuild. Ange has reshaped the team to his requirements but the job isn't complete and the backups in key defensive positions, while good players, are completely unsuited to the new setup. On top of that, the few first teamers who have remained fit have, by necessity, been playing way too much and are completely exhausted and so playing below their level. It would be basically impossible for any manager to succeed in this situation. The high defensive line relies on Van de Ven's pace - obviously whoever comes in won't be as quick, but his backup is Ben Davies who, for all his qualities, is not at all quick. The line also relies on Vicario's speed off his line, which most keepers have now. Again our backup, Forster, is completely unsuited to that.

The easy answer is 'change the system', and there is some merit to that. Playing much deeper would obviously help a goalkeeper and centre backs that don't have the ability to protect that gap in behind. But I don't think it's that simple, because the parts of the squad that have already been rebuilt aren't designed for that sort of play. Porro, Udogie, Bissouma, Sarr, Bentancur and Maddison are all front foot players who will be at best wasted (Bentancur, Maddison, Sarr) and at worst horribly exposed (Porro, Udogie) by playing the sort of system that would better protect the goalkeeper and centre backs. That's before you even get into the detail of suddenly having a complete change of system, fronted by a manager who is not an expert in that system.

We're caught between two worlds at the moment and this ridiculously specific injury crisis, taking out the three most important elements (Vicario, Van de Ven and Romero) before we've been able to find alternatives, has completely killed us. The league season is a write-off. It's a shit situation. But I think it would be nuts to sack Postecoglou at the moment, personally.

I don't even necessarily think he will succeed long term - maybe his intransigence will get the better of him in the end, his ideals don't quite play out as he imagined they might and we continue to get exposed defensively by better, cleverer teams. There is a question mark over him, for sure. But, unlike previous managers we've had that hit poor runs, there is every reason to believe that this situation is specific to these circumstances, and that things will improve significantly both in the short term (once Van de Ven and Romero are back) and the long term (when the squad rebuild gets closer to completion and we have replacements who are comfortable in our system).

We've already taken a huge step forward in signing Kinsky, who immediately looks much better suited to the system than Forster and possibly Vicario as well. The injury crisis has also forced us to give extra game time to Spence, Bergvall and Gray, all of whom have quickly shown themselves to be good players who are suited to our system and should be even better in the future. Bergvall and Gray both look like superstars, Spence is developing very quickly too. Even without injuries, those four are providing serious competition for starting places now.

If we were to sack Postecoglou any time soon - I'd at least give him the summer and the first half next season to complete the rebuild and see how the team gets on under less difficult circumstances - it would begin another rebuild. If we cut and run at the first sign of trouble, we will never get to where we want to be. I appreciate this season has been worse than just 'first sign of trouble' on paper, but given the context I honestly believe it would be unwise to judge Ange based on the past few months, and even less wise to assume it won't be much, much better in the near future.
Our form is like a runaway train that needs terminating.
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
13,396
18,873
It blows my mind that people are still using injuries as an excuse for him turning us into relegation candidates.
Yeh cause having 4 out of your 5 first choice back line including GK out injured won't cause any problems will it? Come on dude, if any other team in the prem had that level of defensive injury crisis they would also be getting hammered.

I just don't think people fully understand the extent that playing Kinsky (brand new to the league and young), Dragusin (best case he's 2nd choice CB), Gray (18 FFS and NOT a CB) and Spence (not a LB) has on our ability to be effective against teams defensively.

Firstly, we were absolutely shite before the injuries kicked in, and for 2/3 of last season.
No we weren't. We had the highest goals scored and least amount of goals conceded (and thus best GD) in the league. We were starting to get some form together. 12 games in and we were 3 points off 3rd FFS.

Secondly, his methods may well be causing the injuries, why the hell does anyone think all these players are just going to all come back and the injury crisis will end?
I just don't buy this, sure his training method is intense, but he's not the only manager in the world asking a lot from his players. I also doubt that the mass sacking of our physio team recently isn't unrelated to this. I think he was at fault for playing Romero and VDV in the Chelsea game, but outside of that I don't think he can be blamed much.
 

Oh Teddy Teddy

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2017
6,730
17,001
It blows my mind that people are still using injuries as an excuse for him turning us into relegation candidates. Firstly, we were absolutely shite before the injuries kicked in, and for 2/3 of last season. Secondly, his methods may well be causing the injuries, why the hell does anyone think all these players are just going to all come back and the injury crisis will end?

We were inconsistent, but it's a stretch to call us absolutely shite this season. Said it before, will say it again: we'd won 9 of 11 games before losing to Gala and that shit-show against Ipswich as players started dropping.

When they come back, I'd expect improvement, but I also think it's unreasonable to expect everything to have been perfected this season given the signings we made in the summer. Clearly we need more, more technical players, better wide players etc etc

But, results matter. He's on thin ice and I don't know if he gets that time, but the next manager will need the exact same thing regardless.
 
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