Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Rout-Ledge]

Literally the same level

Absolute fucking nonsense

 

[mil1lion]

Absolute fucking nonsense

Explain then

 

[Rout-Ledge]

Explain then

What’s the ‘domestic double’ ?

 

[PaulM]

Why?

In the last 10 years league cup winners are
City x 6
Utd x 2
Liverpool x 2
Chelsea x 1

We've won it more times than arsenal who haven't won it since 93 so would be good to keep those bragging rights too

The last 10 Fa Cup are
Arsenal x4
City x2
Utd x2
Leicester x1
Chelsea x1

Not sure how it's in any way more important

Can’t ever recall bragging “we have more league cups than you” to anyone let alone clubs with more league titles than us.

FA Cup is more important. It’s got a lot more history and clubs take it more seriously (if not as seriously as they used to).

 

[Ginmela]

Anyone still backing 1 plan Ange?

 

[mil1lion]

Can’t ever recall bragging “we have more league cups than you” to anyone let alone clubs with more league titles than us.

FA Cup is more important. It’s got a lot more history and clubs take it more seriously (if not as seriously as they used to).

Take it more seriously? Have you not followed the league cup for however many years? FA cup is more important to the small clubs who are involved. It's no different to the top clubs and they all take both cups seriously. Neither cup gives any more to us than the other.

 

[joelstinton14]

I think Ange will get the rest of the season but I don’t really need to say it, the last third of the season will be huge for him and determines whether we get rid of him come May or not. Think the board will take into account the injuries we have had but also our stats with a fully fit squad were actually pretty good, with us not probably getting the points on the board we deserved at the start of the season. City, UTD and Villa havn’t been at there best this season but I don’t think you can really write off those performances against them. We seen half’s of football this season that have been outstanding (inc Brighton) but I do think it leans into long standing question marks over him and his stubbornness to not even flinch from his ideals. You can t play the way he wants and his way of thinking for a whole match. I think for him to succeed here he will need to adapt and see that you have to dig in from time to time. I think if we can get Romero and VDV back by end of Jan and keep them fit that be a massive lift and we start picking up 3 points again.

As for letting him go, I don’t think it be too much of an issue when it comes to the rebuild if we get a ball on the deck attacking manager. Conte and Jose did a number on us because we change styles. Brighton have pretty much kept their project going with a few managers changes and I think someone like Iarola will have a lot to work with.

 

[TheHodFather]

The FA Cup is the premier domestic cup competition and always has been. It’s undoubtedly more important than the league cup.

Yep, which is why the FA Cup winner gets Europa League and the League Cup winner gets Conference League. And why the Charity Shield is between the league champions and the FA Cup winners, not the League Cup winners. And back when there was a Cup-Winners Cup, the place went to the FA Cup winners, not the League Cup winners.

 

[McFlash]

Anyone still backing 1 plan Ange?

It's posts like this that lead the thread to the constant bickering cycle.

Neither useful, thoughtful or insightful, just brain-dead provocation.

 

[mil1lion]

Yep, which is why the FA Cup winner gets Europa League and the League Cup winner gets Conference League. And why the Charity Shield is between the league champions and the FA Cup winners, not the League Cup winners. And back when there was a Cup-Winners Cup, the place went to the FA Cup winners, not the League Cup winners.

But neither is more important to us. We're not in any position to see either domestic cup as more important than the other.

 

[PaulM]

Take it more seriously? Have you not followed the league cup for however many years? FA cup is more important to the small clubs who are involved. It's no different to the top clubs and they all take both cups seriously. Neither cup gives any more to us than the other.

You get about 2 million more for winning the FA Cup.

 

[spurs9]

I hope that Paratici can bring that coach from Lazio.

The 61 year old who's only senior trophy is a Serie B title, never been past a 1/4 final in a cup and never been at a club longer than 2 seasons? Great shout.

 

[Mr Pink]

Take it more seriously? Have you not followed the league cup for however many years? FA cup is more important to the small clubs who are involved. It's no different to the top clubs and they all take both cups seriously. Neither cup gives any more to us than the other.

The FA Cup is the more prestigious cup competition.

If you went round the county asking randoms PL fans would they rather win the CC Cup or the FA Cup....

Think the results would be unanimous there.

 

[Hercules]

What did Ange actually do wrong today? My views been made clear. We were unlucky today. Especially second half. There were 3-4 players playing who were bugged up, and taken all sorts to play. Seems some praying we loose to get him sacked. Those i question.

 

[TheHodFather]

But neither is more important to us. We're not in any position to see either domestic cup as more important than the other.

Right now I'd happily take any cup win!

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

You get about 2 million more for winning the FA Cup.

Go on, you have my attention now.

 

[pablo73]

I’m Ange in and so’s my wife

 

[jolsnogross]

People think a change of manager means we'll automatically improve, but that's a false assumption. There is also plenty of room to get worse or be no better. United have actually put Amorim on the back foot now for months. A poorly delivered change of manager could easily see us in a similar or worse situation.

That's not a resounding endorsement of Ange by any stretch, but there really is little point in sacking him now. Palace will likely overtake us soon, but the rest of the league from 13th down is as bad or worse than us. We're shite, but we won't be in danger of finishing in the bottom 5.

However, the degree to which we are so uncompetitive is shocking, even when accounting for injuries. We're absolutely nowhere near being a challenger in this league. Being so far off the points totals of Bournemouth and Forest is grim, let alone the 'regular' rivals we aspire to challenge. If Ange cannot start stringing results together, bouts of 3 or more consecutive league wins, by the end of this season, he'll have to go.

By his own standards and metrics, we're falling well below the level, in the short term ("it'll be an issue if we're 10th or worse in january") and the long term ("be sustainably competitive for the top honours").

 

[jakuba]

We’ve been so soft on ref’s decisions for years. Every other team in the league screams bloody murder for decisions that are half as bad as the ones that go against us (Caiceido and today’s immediately spring to mind) and remarkably they end up getting the rub of the green long term whereas we get fucked over endlessly.

But for it to start now it would be a sign of pressure, we should be giving it even when we win. Making it unpleasant for the officials like every other team does. I don’t care about being the pinnacle of morality, I want us to win and to play well. If everyone else hates us and calls us moaners I couldn’t care less.

I do agree with Ange in respect of today. Most were expecting us to get our pants pulled down and if the ref’s weren’t bent as a 12 bob note we could have won. Don’t think it’s a turning point today because it can’t be in a loss - but I don’t think today puts any more pressure on him.

Prime example Arteta is going off about the penalty today. We’ve not seen our managers complain about these 50\50 calls probably since Jol calling the lineo a **** when he missed Mendes’ goal at Old Trafford.

I dare not think about some of the sizeable decisions that have gone against us since lest I want to stand on a bridge but I don’t think we’ve ever been a club to kick up a stink about decisions and they’ve consistently gone against us. Then on the very odd occasion they go against us were repatriated with chastening decisions against us - I saw a chart showing this last season after the Liverpool game.

Ultimately we’ve been too soft and not prepared to sully our hands being shitbags. The only times we have like Mason buying a red vs Benteke in 2014 or Winks vs City in 2020 have resulted in success for us.

Meanwhile every other team will scream and crowd the ref for every decision. We’ve never done that whether our players don’t have the stomach for it or for the fine, same for our managers. I find it almost amusing how steeped our playing culture is in corporate culture that it isn’t normalised to go through people to get that extra inch out of them whether that’s our own players or our he match officials.

I hate that it’s the way that it is but we have decades of the best teams getting decisions and in part that it is undeniable because of how uncomfortable they make it for the officials through a combination of on the pitch behaviour, manager statements and media pressure through pundits - would you ever see Mike Dean saying Joelinton’s handball was a foul vs any of the Sky 5?

 

[mil1lion]

The FA Cup is the more prestigious cup competition.

If you went round the county asking randoms PL fans would they rather win the CC Cup or the FA Cup....

Think the results would be unanimous there.

That's not the same as being more important though. Maybe if you're a City you can pick what you prefer. For us and many others you don't view one domestic trophy as more important than the other.