Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

I can understand why there are many on here saying he needs time and are quoting Klopp, Pep and even Arteta as examples of how a philosophy manager can build a successful team in their image given time.

I'm very much with you though in that this particular philosophy will never be as successful as those managers quoted as it's just too open, and at this level the opposition will exploit that too much. I am also firmly of the belief he will never get that purpose built squad anyway, so getting better than we currently are is about as far as we will get under Ange. Capable of incredible results, both good and bad.

I think it’s fair to say the philosophy should be given time, but that doesn’t need to involve keeping the manager. Take the good work he’s done in instilling a new approach and mentality and if they decide his shortcomings can be improved upon by another similar-outlook manager, make the change when necessary.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I can understand why there are many on here saying he needs time and are quoting Klopp, Pep and even Arteta as examples of how a philosophy manager can build a successful team in their image given time.

I'm very much with you though in that this particular philosophy will never be as successful as those managers quoted as it's just too open, and at this level the opposition will exploit that too much. I am also firmly of the belief he will never get that purpose built squad anyway, so getting better than we currently are is about as far as we will get under Ange. Capable of incredible results, both good and bad.

I mean... Ben Godfrey. The cycle is about to repeat.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Always lazy when presented without context.


I think it’s fair to say the philosophy should be given time, but that doesn’t need to involve keeping the manager. Take the good work he’s done in instilling a new approach and mentality and if they decide his shortcomings can be improved upon by another similar-outlook manager, make the change when necessary.

Keiran McKenna...

 

[Gassin's finest]

Anyway... sorry... Merry Christmas everyone

 

[Styopa]

I'd be surprised if Levy isn't getting twitchy if we lose to forest.

The loss to Liverpool was AVB sacking bad.

I think if we lose to Forest and potentially drop to around 13th after half a season played then Ange must be on dangerous ground.

It’s been pointed out before that Levy only sacks coaches when the players turn etc but it I think it would be unprecedented for the club to finish, say, 13th during a coach’s second full season, and for Levy to persevere.

It’s not just that fans get impatient, but the best players also get twitchy when they see the club is miles away from competing and the club misses out on millions of pounds of revenue from lucrative Champions League involvement.

I think it would show a lot of balls for Levy to try something different and see this through but I I think what he prioritises and what the fans prioritise are two separate things. I think if he could hire a new manager to get us into Champions League this season he would prioritise that over seeing out a longer term project with Ange that may or may not come together in the end.

 

[Trix]

I mean... Ben Godfrey. The cycle is about to repeat.

Well let's wait and see. In the summer signings did come out of nowhere, so we are capable of keeping things quiet until we sign them. As it is though everything I'm hearing is we are scrambling to see what we can do now, rather than having a plan. I concede the injuries may have forced us to change things up, but the whole point of the data system is that you are prepared for all eventualities, and emergency loan signings doesn't fit that brief for me.

 

[allatsea]

I mean... Ben Godfrey. The cycle is about to repeat.

If we sign him on loan as the press are predicting then that tells me we are limping through until the end of season. We will then make our decision on Ange. By doing this we are keeping our options open on new players and on our Manager.

 

[SpursSince1980]

Every system is only as good as the players bought or selected to play per those tactics.

When we all collectively get that it doesn’t matter who we bring in to be our manager. Style of play is irrelevant. As no coach will ever be fully backed.

The more time away from the Poch era the more I can see it was an outlier. A smart coach, with good young players, spearheaded by a generational striker that would have cost 150m to buy when he was 24. But we got him for free. Poch did well in spite of Levy. Yet still won nothing.

A lot of people keep stating as fact that Ange’s way of playing cannot succeed in the EPL. To them I would ask… show me a manager gettable now or in the summer that plays a system that will win us trophies under the same conditions. Explain to me how this same manager would have approached the Liverpool game and achieved a better result. Because if you are willing to state emphatically that it is impossible for Ange to achieve glory, it stands to reason you know what it takes to break our trophy drought. I’m genuinely curious. As i keep reading lots of things about our problems yet almost nothing about tangible solutions.

 

[Styopa]

If we sign him on loan as the press are predicting then that tells me we are limping through until the end of season. We will then make our decision on Ange. By doing this we are keeping our options open on new players and on our Manager.

I’m not sure about that to be honest.

I think most of the signings we gave Ange this summer are players we see coming good in the future rather than signings for now.

I’m not sure which signings we have ever made that scream out we’re backing Ange now.

Solanke and Maddison maybe?

But Solanke basically replaced Kane and Maddison replaced Eriksen who we should have replaced about three or four years earlier.

I just don’t think we can draw many conclusions based on who we do or don’t buy given we rarely ever back our coaches with players they want or need.

To make it even clearer, I think we would mess around a manager we had even 100% faith in. We would think, ok, they’re doing well, so they don’t need more players.

 

[Doctor Dinkey]

I think if we lose to Forest and potentially drop to around 13th after half a season played then Ange must be on dangerous ground.

It’s been pointed out before that Levy only sacks coaches when the players turn etc but it I think it would be unprecedented for the club to finish, say, 13th during a coach’s second full season, and for Levy to persevere.

It’s not just that fans get impatient, but the best players also get twitchy when they see the club is miles away from competing and the club misses out on millions of pounds of revenue from lucrative Champions League involvement.

I think it would show a lot of balls for Levy to try something different and see this through but I I think what he prioritises and what the fans prioritise are two separate things. I think if he could hire a new manager to get us into Champions League this season he would prioritise that over seeing out a longer term project with Ange that may or may not come together in the end.

We are absolutely not getting into Champions League this season whichever manager we appoint. Levy would be better off sticking with Ange with an eye to qualification in 2025/2026

 

[Styopa]

We are absolutely not getting into Champions League this season whichever manager we appoint. Levy would be better off sticking with Ange with an eye to qualification in 2025/2026

I agree. Although there’s a difference between a team which finishes on a high winning seven or eight of their last ten matches and one that limps in and who we hope will do better next season.

It becomes an article of faith that if we just grant a coach more time it will all come together in the end. I don’t think Levy will keep gambling season after season that next season will be the one where it all pays off. Maybe he will, but he’s never done that before.

 

[DJS]

Didn't Ossie get replaced with Gerry Francis half way through the season, and we ended up 7th?

Ossie was in charge whole of 1993/94 season and Francis replaced him early 1994/95 season where we finished 7th

 

[McFlash]

Son even in his Poch days was terrible at closing down at the right angle to shut off an opponent. I used Lamela as an example because he was crazy good at it.

I totally disagree when I hear we can’t defend because we have a high line. Liverpool and City (before Rodri got injured) could do it fine. They just have players that are greate pressers in the front and middle which prevents the backline being exposed.

By contrast Son, Bissouma, Johnson even Maddison are not great at shutting down the opposition. Solanke is great though I agree. Pressing isn't just running around.

I completely agree and I do think that this is what's leading to our "defensive issues" that some like to go in about.

I think the system is fine and that Ange has been making small tweaks here and there but the problem is that nearly half our team can't press properly.

I wasn't a fan of the idea of signing Gallagher but the more I watch us this season, the more I understand why Ange wanted him.
His pressing in the middle of the pitch would've filled a massive hole that we have.

 

[McFlash]

Fair enough, Nuno was the wrong appointment at the wrong time for both parties. It doesnt make him a bad manager. He left wolves to take time off.

That's it with Nuno, he clearly needed a break when he left Wolves and everyone knew it but he just couldn't turn down the chance to manage us.

It was too much for him, not in terms of his ability, just in because he mentally needed to reset and recharge.

 

[McFlash]

So are you saying that Ange was not in fact happy with the summer recruitment, because if that is the case why did he say he was?

Because you can be happy with what you got but still feel that you needed more.

We were all happy with the signings we made, they are all good players, it just obviously wasn't enough to improve the squad for this season.

Honestly, I don't know how many times this needs to be explained?

 

[Styopa]

I wasn't a fan of the idea of signing Gallagher but the more I watch us this season, the more I understand why Ange wanted him.
His pressing in the middle of the pitch would've filled a massive hole that we have.

I think it’s obvious that we would be in a better situation if we had bought Neto, Eze and Gallagher who seem to have been Ange’s first choices.

I agree with people about Gray etc having a much higher ceilings but we need to be realistic about timescales for these players.

There was so much hype around players like Gray, Bergvall, Odobert and Moore smashing it out of the park this season that we lost touch with how good the squad is now. These are kids who have hardly or never played in the league before but because they’re hyped we thought we had a fantastic window. It was just so naive.

We had a disastrous window in terms of our immediate performance and now we’re dealing with that. Any coach who walks into this would want new signings.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Ossie was in charge whole of 1993/94 season and Francis replaced him early 1994/95 season where we finished 7th

Yes, but the point was being made about his famous five attack, which was the latter season.

 

[rabbikeane]

Liverpool game was a free pass. Now we enter a trio of games that are both winnable yet can be difficult (Forest away, Wolves home, Newcastle home). All within a week and a half. Fatigued team with lot of games close to each other. Get bad results and we might line up against Arsenal away under relegation threat.

 

[McFlash]

Copy and pasted

I’m loving Big Ange instead
You know, reading all this dross from the other side of the world about Ange’s need for a “Plan B”, playing kamikaze football, being out of his depth, I had to bite. I’ve read about Ange’s shortcomings for well over a decade now. He proves you all wrong time and time again.

Ange had trouble in the 2000s as the coach of the Joeys, Australia’s national team youth side. And at the end of that dark tunnel, he made a promise to a close friend and colleague: enough compromise, I’m sticking to my principles. This lead to success at ‘Roarcelona’, the Socceroos, Yokohama and Celtic. Mickey Mouse you say? I’d love to see the credentials of Sir Alex and Arsene pre-EPL. I’d also love to see the “winning” English managers have achieved. So why should he listen to you or your pundits? You can’t even win your own league.

It is from sticking to his principles that he has made it to Tottenham. For all those Spurs fans that have short memories (*cough* the regulars of certain youtube channels *cough*), the Spurs’ motto is “Audere est Facere”. To dare is to do. We lost this under Poch’s final season, Mourinho, Nuno and Conte. Turgid, dire football, relying on Kane and Son to pull us through it all. I really enjoyed waking up at 3am on a Monday to watch that utter garbage.

Now no Kane, an older Son. Here is a manager willing to commit to breaking a mental fragility at a club so unwilling to change. To do so with significant contraints in his squad depth. A man who has an identity of attacking football, something Spurs fans (again, very short memories) have begged for for years. Danny Blanchflower would be disgusted by these “fans”. Quick reminder to those that have forgotten: “The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.” Take that from someone who was actually successful at Tottenham. Sounds like Danny was almost exactly describing Ange…

Argue to a brick wall about Plan Bs and being pragmatic, it’s a loser mentality. The THST were a joke, ready to ‘explain’ to Ange about the importance of Arsenal losing the league. Like he hadn’t just come from the Old Firm derby, a rivalry beyond the football pitch. Again, the English thinking they know best. Lsoer mentality. But what Ange can do right now, is build the right mindset. Make the impossible happen, and transform the club’s relationship with success.

A Plan B like a low block does nothing for the club’s future. Nothing for the players like Bergvall and Gray who will be there for years to come. To play on the front foot even when the going gets tough, means these players won’t retreat, they won’t hide, when the games matter. When success is within reach. They will take the game to anyone. Don’t lie to me: you all saw the score from 1-5 to 3-5 and thought “no way, but maybe?”

On the game: Liverpool have no injuries, insane depth everywhere on the pitch, an extra day of rest, and are the clear best in England and Europe. What did you expect? Just defend for your lives? Sorry, the manager doesn’t believe in you guys. Give up before the first whistle and know your place. Be losers before the game even begins. Seems like the message from the pundits and some Spurs fans (those at the ground were brilliant).

The moment Ange strays from his principles, it’s over. That’s not what the club needs in this revolution. It needs the strongest will in the darkest night. No matter the difficulty, the injury toll, the lack of squad depth, Tottenham Hotspur have to believe they can still beat anyone, anytime, anywhere. Once the team is ready to compete with personnel, the mentality will already be there, ready to take this club to another level. Ange is trying to eradicate the English from Tottenham, and build an unwavering belief that the team can win no matter the circumstance.

Oh, and F365. Utter gutter journalism. The constant use of derogatory terms for a team with about 10 injuries, a (correct) ban for racism, signings that reflect more a child labour camp than a football club, and only now rebuilding when a rebuild was required 5 years ago. You yearn for personalities, for points of difference in this league. Bemoan likeness amongst teams. Yet write utter dross time and time again about a guy who won’t waiver over his beliefs in how to lead a team. I can’t imagine the rubbish you would have written about Gasperini at Atalanta when his attacking football resulted in crazy scorelines. That would be if I can even read beyond the 40 pop-ups and ads on your website.

Do better.
Matt

Thanks for sharing what is a brilliant post, even if it's from a bloody Aussie!

 

[McFlash]

Lost it under Pochs final season? That season was the very definition of audere est facere.

And of course gung ho football against leagues where defences are barely existent and goalkeepers can be beaten if you aim roughly anywhere to either side of them is going to work. Celtic?? Brendan Rogers and Martin O'Neil can be legendary managers there ffs.

This isn't premiership arrogance, this "football" wouldn't work in most European leagues... try it in La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga... wouldn't last 5 minutes.

Just admit that there are levels, and Ange ain't at this one.

We lost it in Poch's final 18 months, to be honest.
The diamond formation, the football was pretty poor and it looked like the passion was going long before the CL final, which was the final nail in the coffin.
It was a long, slow and painful death.

I'm not even going to bother about the second part of your post because it got silly.
Are you really saying that managers can't grow, learn, improve and build a career?
They somehow have to be born into a top league to have any success?