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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Ange In or Ange Out?

  • Ange In

  • Ange Out


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SA_Spurs

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
1,124
1,680
I’m torn. The majority of my family and pals are Celtic fans. So I’ve been a fan of Ange for a good few years now.

I’m in the camp that we don’t have that much to lose sticking with him till the summer and seeing if he makes the required tweaks when we get players back from injury. Especially as there is no available candidate to replace him I’m particularly enamoured with. That said, i’m never sure if I’m being led by my bias towards him, or the fact that as a person he’s exactly who I want to represent our club.

I’ve tried to detach that bias by imagining if it was say a Nuno managing us just now, would I be so forgiving of the issues and form? I probably wouldn’t. So I certainly won’t judge anyone who thinks they have seen enough and he’s run his course.
yeah, I think a lot of us are very divided about what should happen. I want to see how we get on when we have a full strength team available again & we have good options to impact games (Odo / Moore, Richy, Bentancur in PL). We're making far too many mistakes to write it off as poor coaching.

I think it's a combination of:
- Fatigue (look at all the misplaced passes, short passes, underhit passes)

- Fear. Against rangers, every time we had a promising position in middle of the pitch with very few players around us, Biss, Madders, Son, Werner barely made a forward pass, they would simply turn back to pass to defensive players or make a lateral pass to another midfielder. If our midfielders and forwards can't go fwd, how do they expect gray or Dragusin to break the defensive lines?

- Poor technique: If you watch players receiving the ball, they'e often facing the wrong direction or are in a position to receive the pass where they can assess their own options & make a decision quickly. The net affect of it is that all the players treat the ball iike a hot potato and simply look to offload it. This is tough one, some of it may lie in a technical flaw however much of it is linked to the above & simply a function of being 1 step too slow.

There's no easy way out or miracle ahead for us. Players just need a rest & to recover not just their physical side but also the mental side. The rinse repeat nature of 2 games a week is crazy with a squad so ravaged by injuries. Imagine, they play on Sunday, rest on Monday (rest = light training usually), train on Tuesday, travel on Wednesday (and train when they arrive), light training on Thursday & full game, then repeat the cycle to get ready for Sunday game. These players must be fried mentally & emotionally - especially with all the noise around the club at the present.

The upcoming games in december are going to test us: 15, 19, 22, 26, 29 - same cycle of minimal rest / recovery and huge demand for points from all teams. We could just as easily win all games as much as we could lose every single one of them. It's truly a scary time to be a fan as none of us know what to expect!

Even if we fired Ange and replaced him - there will be zero new manage bounce as the manager just won't have players to select from. I think it's time for Ange to go for broke & introduce some fresh blood in the team this wknd.
- Start Spence. to rest Porro
- Start Bergvall, Sarr, Archie as our MF
- Drop Madders - he needs much more consistency as his hunger is debatable (I'd say same for son, but we no other options on the left)
- Dorrington to play alongside Radu
- give lankshear minutes to bed him in & manage Solanke 9efore he gets injured & we're even more fucked then)

Other posters have said it - December is going to a rough month for us. We have to see it through without falling into a relegation scrap and then hope our players coming back in Jan can help us kick on & have a super 2nd part of the season. We have a lot to play for still! COYS!
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
17,130
54,329
It’s not tactics, it’s luck. Pure randomness, at the pace we play there’s a variance around the accuracy of passes and shots.
Against Citeh, for example, the pass out to Deki for our first goal was overhit by about a yard. The defender wanted to let it run out, but Deki kept it in. We were lucky that the defender made that mistake. Then we were lucky that Haaland missed three good opportunities.
Generally, when we’ve got results this season, we’ve had all the good luck, and our opponents all the bad.

Fuck off. This is reductive in the extreme - all wins are down to luck, all losses are because Ange is bad manager :ROFLMAO:
 

RuskyM

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2011
8,806
31,441
It’s not tactics, it’s luck. Pure randomness, at the pace we play there’s a variance around the accuracy of passes and shots.
Against Citeh, for example, the pass out to Deki for our first goal was overhit by about a yard. The defender wanted to let it run out, but Deki kept it in. We were lucky that the defender made that mistake. Then we were lucky that Haaland missed three good opportunities.
Generally, when we’ve got results this season, we’ve had all the good luck, and our opponents all the bad.
Attributing all our good moments to luck and all our bad to incompetence is so unfair lol.
 

ComfortablyNumb

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,858
7,307
Did I imagine us scoring four at the Etihad or vs Villa, or absolutely hammering United? We’ve had some brilliant performances this year, alongside some shockers.
See, that’s just bollocks. You are conflating performance with result. Our performances this season have been pretty consistent, and sometimes we get a great result, sometimes we don’t. The score doesn’t tell us how well we played.
 

Mannnos

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2018
73
543






Here are 3 post match threads from arsenal fans in lego mans 2nd year. Took me 2 minutes to find. Here are some comments I thought might ring some bells.

"Alright Arteta is done. We are now on the brink of relegation. Did he make Xhaka be a moron? No. Did he continue to start him even if he shouldn't touch the PL squad with a ten foot pole? Yep.

Arteta is out of his depth, and despite what people on this sub say I truly believe the team has the talent and depth to improve under a more experienced manager."

"Utterly shameful. You can say whatever you want, but a manager that can't get a goal at home to a team in 18th place with one win is indefensible. The players maybe shite but it is a disgrace the way the team is being setup and the tactics are awful yet we still persist with them. 1 goal from open play in around 9(?) matches is something that would get most managers instantly sacked.

I like Mikel and I really wished he succeeded. But it's gone beyond the point of no return. He's got to go and I hope we can turn our season to get something worthwhile out of it.

The entire Arteta era has been one of clutching to straws. We were terrible after the restart last season but the FA Cup win was there. We were absolutely toothless in front of goal initially this season but we had a good defensive record. Eventually the paper couldn't cover the cracks.."

"Mikel has a lot to answer for after that. Through 50 games now and worse than Unai after 50, and Wenger last 50. That's horrific."

"This man cannot coach a fucking attack and that's evident. Our sheer impotence in front of goal is unforgivable at this point. He's been in charge for 2 years and we're as shit as we were at the start, even though we've spent a ridiculous amount of money."

"Arteta needs to go. We could have Conte or Tuchel instead and we passed on them to trust this process. He has spent the most money in Europe and has lost away to the worst teams in form in the PL. Sack Edu and Arteta and get Ten Hag and Overmars."

Referencing back to this post. Just insert Ange's name basically anywhere you read Arteta. Sounds familiar.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
48,080
109,849
Referencing back to this post. Just insert Ange's name basically anywhere you read Arteta. Sounds familiar.

But Arteta showed then and now he was and is willing to adapt. Ange doesn’t show an inkling of doing that whatsoever. It isn’t comparable until he does.
 

sidford

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2003
13,187
39,528
Referencing back to this post. Just insert Ange's name basically anywhere you read Arteta. Sounds familiar.
That's arteta who won a cup in his first season is it?
Same lad who started mid season versus some other managers who had a preseason and sign off on transfers?

They ain't the same mate
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
22,032
33,431
See I'd be more sympathetic if I did believe that it was a just a dodgy patch currently, or down to an injury crisis, as some are framing it. But that's not really the case is it.

As others have said, the overall record is masked by those now infamous first 10 games. Where we rocketed off the start line. Since then the PPG and whatnot is sobering. That's a prolonged funk we haven't got out of.

From my own perspective, I keep in mind my general sentiments of how I've seen the last year play out: firstly last autumn/winter we were struggling to get results, but I thought (and it wasn't a widely held sentiment iirc) the football was still pretty good, still playing teams off the park, and I didn't have much cause for concern tbh. Then in the new year I felt performances dropped off in the second half of the campaign, it was much less convincing in what we did with up and down results to match. We then get to this campaign, and performances have got even more chaotic, open, unconvincing, and results even more erratic.

This is a major period of time where we haven't been able to establish any consistency - performances, style of play, control on games, and even results. It's not a blip.

As I joked last night, it would be nice to come away from a game soon where we're not considering that our goalkeeper was MOTM....

Injuries aren't helping, but then when we've had a number of players repeatedly breakdown we have to look at what we're doing. And that's not "the physios", it's whoever is placing the demands and rushing them back into the team. This chaotic helter-skelter style I'd wager also has something to do with the crisis.

Lack of options in the squad also aren't helping, but fucking hell the manager does have some agency in that, and stood by as the squad was gutted and we turned the first team bench into a kindergarten.

Signings might help, but say for instance we get this superstar DM, if they are still asked to cover from touchline to touchline as a one man midfield band then they too will look shit.

I'm not advocating to change manager at this stage, like with previous situations I'm content to not rush into anything and get through the season and see what happens and if we can start building a system, some consistency, and some momentum. But Ange has actually had it pretty lightly I'd say all in all, and there isn't much unfair about the scrutiny or pressure he's under currently. This is 12+ months now where we've struggled to get it together and look no closer to doing so.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
19,590
39,469
Please, are really saying finishing with 66 points last season after selling our greatest ever goalscorer is down to luck? Absolute bullshit.
It’s not like Ange ever had Kane, though. I think that would be a fair point if he had Kane for a season, built a team around him, then next season lost him but you don’t miss what you never had. Obviously that’s different for us fans and obviously Kane would strengthen us but it’s not like he had Kane ripped out of a successful team he built.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
58,701
114,392
See I'd be more sympathetic if I did believe that it was a just a dodgy patch currently, or down to an injury crisis, as some are framing it. But that's not really the case is it.

As others have said, the overall record is masked by those now infamous first 10 games. Where we rocketed off the start line. Since then the PPG and whatnot is sobering. That's a prolonged funk we haven't got out of.

From my own perspective, I keep in mind my general sentiments of how I've seen the last year play out: firstly last autumn/winter we were struggling to get results, but I thought (and it wasn't a widely held sentiment iirc) the football was still pretty good, still playing teams off the park, and I didn't have much cause for concern tbh. Then in the new year I felt performances dropped off in the second half of the campaign, it was much less convincing in what we did with up and down results to match. We then get to this campaign, and performances have got even more chaotic, open, unconvincing, and results even more erratic.

This is a major period of time where we haven't been able to establish any consistency - performances, style of play, control on games, and even results. It's not a blip.

As I joked last night, it would be nice to come away from a game soon where we're not considering that our goalkeeper was MOTM....

Injuries aren't helping, but then when we've had a number of players repeatedly breakdown we have to look at what we're doing. And that's not "the physios", it's whoever is placing the demands and rushing them back into the team. This chaotic helter-skelter style I'd wager also has something to do with the crisis.

Lack of options in the squad also aren't helping, but fucking hell the manager does have some agency in that, and stood by as the squad was gutted and we turned the first team bench into a kindergarten.

Signings might help, but say for instance we get this superstar DM, if they are still asked to cover from touchline to touchline as a one man midfield band then they too will look shit.

I'm not advocating to change manager at this stage, like with previous situations I'm content to not rush into anything and get through the season and see what happens and if we can start building a system, some consistency, and some momentum. But Ange has actually had it pretty lightly I'd say all in all, and there isn't much unfair about the scrutiny or pressure he's under currently. This is 12+ months now where we've struggled to get it together and look no closer to doing so.

Yeah thats a good, and very fair summary.

Where I'm at as well.
 

Mannnos

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2018
73
543
Done discussing & trying to change peoples minds. Im staunchly Ange in and more than prepared to go through more pain to potentially reach a new level. I believe in Ange & what he is trying to do & I want to see it through to the bitter end.

"Alright Arteta is done. We are now on the brink of relegation. Did he make Xhaka be a moron? No. Did he continue to start him even if he shouldn't touch the PL squad with a ten foot pole? Yep.

Arteta is out of his depth, and despite what people on this sub say I truly believe the team has the talent and depth to improve under a more experienced manager."

"Utterly shameful. You can say whatever you want, but a manager that can't get a goal at home to a team in 18th place with one win is indefensible. The players maybe shite but it is a disgrace the way the team is being setup and the tactics are awful yet we still persist with them. 1 goal from open play in around 9(?) matches is something that would get most managers instantly sacked.

I like Mikel and I really wished he succeeded. But it's gone beyond the point of no return. He's got to go and I hope we can turn our season to get something worthwhile out of it.

The entire Arteta era has been one of clutching to straws. We were terrible after the restart last season but the FA Cup win was there. We were absolutely toothless in front of goal initially this season but we had a good defensive record. Eventually the paper couldn't cover the cracks.."

"Mikel has a lot to answer for after that. Through 50 games now and worse than Unai after 50, and Wenger last 50. That's horrific."

"This man cannot coach a fucking attack and that's evident. Our sheer impotence in front of goal is unforgivable at this point. He's been in charge for 2 years and we're as shit as we were at the start, even though we've spent a ridiculous amount of money."

"Arteta needs to go. We could have Conte or Tuchel instead and we passed on them to trust this process. He has spent the most money in Europe and has lost away to the worst teams in form in the PL. Sack Edu and Arteta and get Ten Hag and Overmars."
 

marion52

Well-Known Member
Dec 10, 2006
2,188
3,892
I’m bored with it now, the press are like wolves waiting for a kill and some of our fans are much the same.
Just let the man see the season through, players will come back from injury and he can send out better balanced teams.
Patience by Take That should take over from I’m loving Angels by Robbie Williams 😂
 

tommo84

Proud to be loud
Aug 15, 2005
7,030
13,441
Presumably our defeats are down to bad luck too then?
You’re wilfully ignoring the point @ComfortablyNumb made clearly enough for anyone who had watched our games this season to understand, which is that win or lose, the lack of any real control over the game and the number of chances we give up through being wide open is the only real consistency. The inconsistent results are a product of a consistent lack of control in games which leaves the outcome of any single game on something of a knife edge. Whether we come out in the right side or not each time has little to do with anything other than which team is more clinical in converting their chances.
 

RuskyM

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2011
8,806
31,441
You’re wilfully ignoring the point @ComfortablyNumb made clearly enough for anyone who had watched our games this season to understand, which is that win or lose, the lack of any real control over the game and the number of chances we give up through being wide open is the only real consistency. The inconsistent results are a product of a consistent lack of control in games which leaves the outcome of any single game on something of a knife edge. Whether we come out in the right side or not each time has little to do with anything other than which team is more clinical in converting their chances.
Really can’t be arsed with this assertion that “I’ve watched the games”. I have too. We’ve conceded chances, but honestly our xG ain’t that terrible. It’s gotten worse as the lineups gotten thinner. I think the chaos is overstated.
 
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