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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Ange In or Ange Out?

  • Ange In

  • Ange Out


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RuskyM

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2011
8,806
31,441
True. We were full strength for first 9 games. Lost 4 of them, including the debacle at Palace. He is killing them with the tactics. Centre backs don’t usually pull hamstrings but they do when they spend their time sprinting back from the halfway line. 3 last year, same again this season.
But here's my question: wouldn't the players be coming out against this football rather than in support of Ange? Cuti and Micky have spoken glowingly of him.
 

Spurs4CL

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2015
347
1,949
Building on this, I put some of this in the Levy thread but its relevant here too.

Look what Ange has to work with vs other sides... weekly wages are a key indicator of player quality not just transfer fees:
  • Declan Rice £250k a week vs our CDM Bissouma £55k a week
  • Pedro Neto weekly wage £160k vs our winger signing 19yr old Odobert £25k.
  • Andy Robertson weekly wage £160k vs Udogie £75k
  • Cole Palmer £150k a week vs Archie Gray £75k a week
  • Gravidol £200k weekly wage vs Dragusin 85k

We shop at Lidl, clubs who are serious about winning pay M&S/Waitrose wages to top players.

The stadium being a gamechanger was a ruse.
We are paying Archie Gray 20k pw more than Bissouma!??
 

parj

NDombelly ate all the pies
Jul 27, 2003
4,178
7,173
When I say a better squad, I don’t mean a few additions to ours, I mean City’s squad or Chelsea’s squad etc.
He still wouldn't. Two defenders of a massive problem. I don't think any two defenders in the world are good enough to handle it.
 

newbie

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2004
6,786
7,593
humans have cognitive biases, fans in particular after losses.
stats and facts are however, objective.
let's compare Ange vs Arteta vs Klopp first 50 league games in charge
i do know and note that Ange drew his 51st and lost his 52nd and 53rd matches

Ange P 50 W 26 D 7 L 17 GF 101 GA 74 win rate 52% loss rate 34%

Arteta P 50 W 21 D 12 L 17 GF 72 GA 56 win rate 42% loss rate 34%

Klopp P 50 W 26 D 14 L 10 GF 103 GA 63 win rate 52% loss rate 20%


lets debate on these points - (i) how long for a team to really adapt their way of playing to what the managers expect (ii) how has the playing personnel changed from their first match to their 50th to their 70th? (iii) the quality of the additions to the squad

I dont think the argument should be about Ange's (stubborn) way, I really don't.

on (i) I think 50 games is more than enough time for the players to adapt to their managers' demands but what is the really stark contrast here is on points (ii) and (iii) because Liverpool and Arsenal really transformed their squads and upgraded their playing personnel for their managers. Their respective clubs backed their managers even if in the first 50 games, results were up and down.

THFC (and us fans) should support Ange for 2 more windows before throwing in the towel.

Like many have said, we are still in the cups, and we have some chance of semis or finals at least. And most importantly, the players still believe in Ange (as opposed to Jose, Conte, Nuno).

Spurs (modern day football) fans are just too impatient imo. It's like expecting your child to play the piano like Beethoven after a year. not just impatient, but easiest to react lose faith + highest expectations i reckon. we always compare ourselves to how arsenal, chelsea or the others are doing, and if they are doing well, we get more antsy. if one just observes spurs fans in forums and group chats, you'd see that expectations on performances and results are ludicrously high, relative to our squad strength / wage bill.

These defensive disasters can resolve / improve significantly if and when we have (in terms of priority) better centre mids, full backs to rotate, wingers and back up centre backs. Liverpool and Arsenal did. We can too.

Except, because of our chairman, our process may likely take longer than theirs.

this is very good 👍

let’s also add last two windows we have brought one starter the rest young squad players for the future

having one game a week makes you look better, two you run less and have to rotate players

rotating players means quality drops and players are not in the same wavelength
 

Fidget

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2014
1,487
1,778
I think we need to put our summer business in perspective in terms of players teams signed to improve their first team squad in the here and now, the below says a lot to me and clearly shows why our managers keep having their hands tied:
  • Arsenal : Raya, Califiori, Merino, Neto, Sterling (5)
  • A.Villa: Ian Maatsen, Ross Barkley, Amadou Onana, Jaden Philogene, (4)
  • Bournemouth: Sinisterra, Unal, Evanlison, Kepa (4)
  • Brentford: Igor Thiago, Fabio Carvalho , Sepp van den Berg (3)
  • Brighton: Yankuba Minteh, Mats Wieffer, Georginio Rutter , Matt O’Riley, Ferdi Kadioglu (5)
  • Chelsea: Tosin, Dewsbury-Hall, Jorgensen , Neto, Felix, Sancho (6)
  • Fulham: Sessengon, Smith-Rowe, Berge, Anderson, Nelson (4.5) Sess hamstrings count as half
  • Ipswich: Hutchinson, Greaves, Delap, Muric, Szmodics, Phillips, Clarke, O'Shea, Ogbene (9)
  • Liverpool: Chiesa (1) *already had a stacked squad of 22 good players*
  • Man City: Savinho, Gundogan (2) *already have a stacked squad but also they're really struggling this season compared to usual because they've left themselves shorter than usual with their squad... sound familiar...*
  • Man.U: Yoro, Zirkzee, De Ligt, Mazraoui, Ugarte, (5)
  • N.Forest: Anderson, Migel, Jota Silva , Ramon Sosa, A.Moreno, Morato, James Ward-Prowse (7)
  • Spurs: Solanke, Werner (re-loaned), Odobert (3)
  • West Ham: Wes Foderingham, Kilman, Summerville, Fulkrug, Jean-Clair Todibo, Wan-Bissaka, Guido Rodriguez, Carlos Soler (8)

I've not listed every single PL club but looking at this, regardless of Ange's tactics, given we are now in the Europa League and we only signed 3 first team squad ready to go players, 1 who is not great and was just re-loaned and the other who was 19, raw unproven and is now injured so basically we just signed 1 (Solanke), whereas all of these other teams aside from Liverpool who already had a brilliant squad and City who are now struggling a bit, all the other sides are signing 4-9x first team squad players.

We are the 8th richest team in Europe and have one of the biggest revenues in the premier league yet some of our fans accept these kinds of transfer windows or delude themselves that it was a good transfer window and the young players are the next best thing (they might be they might not but in terms of improving our squad in the here and now it is simply not good enough or acceptable).

Hence Romero's recent comments.

It is no surprise whatsoever that we are 11th in a very competitive league, we barely improved the squad, in fact when you also think about all the players who we sold or let go, it is arguably weaker than last season and we have Europa League to also content with (we also sold, loaned or let go: Perisic, Dier, Royal, PEH, Tanganga, Rodon, Parrot, Ndombele, Skipp, Lo Celso, Gil, Sessengon etc etc) all needed to go so it was a good clear out but we essentially let a good 4-5 first team squad players go and brought in about 2-3.

Last summer we actually signed 4-5 1st team squad players but this summer we didn't back that up at all which given the size of the rebuild we are needing to do has been a big letdown.


Can't make it much clearer, this issue isn't mostly Ange.
Agree with all of this. We are a mess regards to how the players can do what Ange wants. So has to be asked why get him in (basically same for Conte and Jose) and not support his aims? I don’t believe for a second he was happy with last window.
Also I bet Mr Zond neg rates this because he’s stalking me as well.
 
Last edited:

Fidget

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2014
1,487
1,778
When I say a better squad, I don’t mean a few additions to ours, I mean City’s squad or Chelsea’s squad etc.
We won’t get that with Levy but we could certainly afford a big spend if others can. Just depends whether Levy decides it’s worth trying.
 

Silky Skills

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
797
2,359
We are going to also be competing with United and Citeh in the January window, so unlikely to end well even if there are some decent players up for grabs
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
46,216
92,975
We don't really just need more players though. We need actual statement signings. Otherwise we are just going to keep going around in circles. We never have a window where you think "wow Spurs are really going for it this year". That's why January will be so difficult. Certainly more like Porro, Kulusevski and Bentancur would help mid season. But then in the summer we need a couple of big ones of intent. That would give everyone a lift. The players would get a clear indication that we are going for big things. With all due respect you can't sell your best player and sign from Leicester and Forest , then expect players to have the winning mentality for titles. We never act like we want to win things and low and behold we never do.
 

Martinhotspur

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2013
740
2,521
We don't really just need more players though. We need actual statement signings. Otherwise we are just going to keep going around in circles. We never have a window where you think "wow Spurs are really going for it this year". That's why January will be so difficult. Certainly more like Porro, Kulusevski and Bentancur would help mid season. But then in the summer we need a couple of big ones of intent. That would give everyone a lift. The players would get a clear indication that we are going for big things. With all due respect you can't sell your best player and sign from Leicester and Forest , then expect players to have the winning mentality for titles. We never act like we want to win things and low and behold we never do.
Liverpool sign Robinson from Hull, Van Dyke From Southampton and Henderson from Sunderland.
 

only1waddle

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2012
9,554
16,620
We don't really just need more players though. We need actual statement signings. Otherwise we are just going to keep going around in circles. We never have a window where you think "wow Spurs are really going for it this year". That's why January will be so difficult. Certainly more like Porro, Kulusevski and Bentancur would help mid season. But then in the summer we need a couple of big ones of intent. That would give everyone a lift. The players would get a clear indication that we are going for big things. With all due respect you can't sell your best player and sign from Leicester and Forest , then expect players to have the winning mentality for titles. We never act like we want to win things and low and behold we never do.

Yeah I agree, but, if we finish around 10th or lower are we realistically going to attract better players than we are now?
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
19,599
39,517
We don't really just need more players though. We need actual statement signings. Otherwise we are just going to keep going around in circles. We never have a window where you think "wow Spurs are really going for it this year". That's why January will be so difficult. Certainly more like Porro, Kulusevski and Bentancur would help mid season. But then in the summer we need a couple of big ones of intent. That would give everyone a lift. The players would get a clear indication that we are going for big things. With all due respect you can't sell your best player and sign from Leicester and Forest , then expect players to have the winning mentality for titles. We never act like we want to win things and lo and behold we never do.
Who though? They have to want to come to us and when you get to the elite players they tend to go for the elite clubs and even if we offered £250k pw plus wages they’re still going to go for a Chelsea/City/Liverpool especially when we’re not in the champions league.

Solanke seems to be a player that Ange really wanted and thought he’d fit in exactly to how he wants to play so I’d rather we get players like that and at least we can say we’re backing the manager.

Ange seems to be pretty flexible but obviously knows what he wants, what we need, if he is to survive, is to get him his top targets in as many positions as we can, not necessarily “statement signings” but as we know transfer windows never go smoothly and you rarely end up getting all your top targets so there has to be some kind of compromise but as I say I think Ange is flexible in that regard.
 
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