Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[TOLBINY]

The two at the back approach made sense in his first season. He quite literally only had two CBs - not to belabour the point about how f'ing trash this club is at squad building or anything - but in general his two at the back in this system where the FBs are asked to play high up most of the time is looking about as smart as Conte's 2 man midfield did in terms of the personnel available to the respective managers/coaches.

That is to say, whoever the manager is they will have to adapt or they'll be gone. One of the biggest names on the planet and now a relative unknown have received the same exact treatment in quick succession now. That alone limits the ceiling for managers at this club. I'm sure we have a well-known/discussed reputation in footballing circles now.

Conte's two man midfield got us and kept us 4th - we should have built from there, instead we now look like we are (re?) building from mid table.

 

[Trix]

But is he not actually making changes, it's just that doesn't go public and admit it

Always said there would be no change to defending set pieces, but there has been - even with the number of defensive changes imposed on him

Not really, no.

 

[Monkey boy]

Sancho spelling out their simple gameplan yesterday:
Speaking in the interview, Sancho was initially asked: “You have so much attacking talent and you know, Spurs look a little bit defensively frail at the moment – you always would have felt that there were goals in for you?”

He replied: “Definitely, they’re very aggressive and we knew we would catch them if we broke the lines and beat their press.

“The gaffer always told us in training to stay wide, especially the wingers to create the one-vs-ones, you know the overlaps for two-vs-ones.

It has been how we've conceded so many of our chances and goals, either this or people just breaking on us or crossing in behind our defensive line.

Must be nice to have a coach that studies the opposition and ways to exploit their weaknesses........

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

But is he not actually making changes, it's just that doesn't go public and admit it

I noticed yesterday that we were going long a lot more, especially from the goalkeeper. Not that it did much good in eliminating the errors but it was a change I suppose.

 

[13VanDerBale13]

At this moment I would take Potter . The fact that he failed at Chelsea at a time when they were in turmoil should not count against him. Most coaches fail there.

Did you forget which team you support ?

 

[mil1lion]

Personally not a fan of wingbacks. The system Poch used is absolutely perfect for us in my opinion but we need to get a Wanyama in midfield. Push the fullbacks on the overlap because a big issue is them coming infield pulls our defence all out of shape. Plus all bar Werner are inside wingers anyway. Press high and split the 2 centre backs with a 6. That is in my view the perfect way to play with these players.

 

[HildoSpur]

I noticed yesterday that we were going long a lot more, especially from the goalkeeper. Not that it did much good in eliminating the errors but it was a change I suppose.

I think that has probably been a change forced upon us due to the Vicario injury.

 

[GioW]

I think for me if we sacked him it would leave a rather large case of "what if" .

Something just wouldn't feel right about it.

100 percent agree with Trix about his stubbornness though. Ultimately, will be his downfall

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

I think that has probably been a change forced upon us due to the Vicario injury.

It’s a change of style of play forced on us by the abilities, or lack of them, of the players(s) available; the sort of change he’s often been accused of stubbornly refusing to make.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I think that has probably been a change forced upon us due to the Vicario injury.

I never noticed it in the other games since he was injured. Maybe it's me, maybe it was because the centre backs weren't totally fit, I don't know, but it was a small change in the grand scheme of things I guess.

 

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

At this moment I would take Potter . The fact that he failed at Chelsea at a time when they were in turmoil should not count against him. Most coaches fail there.
‘I’d prefer Marco Silva , he has really maximized what he has at Fulham, outplayed us completely and fully deserved the point against set piece Stoke yesterday . However I don’t see him leaving Fulham pre season.
We are not inconsistent, we are consistently bad with an occasional good performance. One win in our last 7 and no wins in our last 4 home games says it all.
Ange has to go, he’s not competent to coach any EPL team . His so called system doesn’t work and he’s not going to change it.

This is picking and choosing the games to suit your agenda. Before this shite run (which unsurprisingly has coincided with more injuries), I'm sure we'd won like 10 of our 12 games. Would that suggest that we were fairly consistent with some occasional (very) poor results?

I get all the arguments levelled against Ange, though I think it's lazy to call him incompetent or that his system doesn't work. It very clearly works, but it does require a level of commitment, fitness and talent that I don't think we quite have at the moment.

 

[C-oops]

I noticed yesterday that we were going long a lot more, especially from the goalkeeper. Not that it did much good in eliminating the errors but it was a change I suppose.

Most of those long balls were floated passes to the midfield which got intercepted. Just further up the pitch than when it's won after going short. Well, the ones I noticed were anyway.

 

[fecka]

I think if there was a clear choice of manager that wouldn't take much to get behind I'd be far more inclined to get rid but there really isn't one stand out candidate that would come to us at present.

Names that we would likely be looking at (those in italics are currently unemployed) - Irola, Frank, Xavi, Mckenna, Potter, Míchel, Hoeneß, Terzic, Conceicao, Hütter, Silva, Alguacil, Howe, Palladino - some i like more then others but all range from uninspiring to risky (some aren't even possession focused managers) but none scream obvious choice.

There is some i'd maybe take a gamble on but it would be a gamble and i'm not sure if the odds are stacked enough to make me believe we should take the risk. I also really don't see us getting anyone who isn't on that list ether, likes of Alonso and Nagelsmann are never ever going to want to come here under Levy and we wouldn't pay their release clause anyway. As we talked about previously there are quite a few managers that I think we wouldn't pay , you mentioned Rose and Bosz for example and i'm sure some on the list above.

If i had even a slight modicum of faith that the club knew what they were doing when appointing a new manager then i'd be more up for rolling the dice on one of the aforementioned names (although there are some In there i don't want) but I don't. I think the chances of us getting the next appointment right are slim to none which makes me feel completely apathetic.

You make valid points, as always. You are right in that there are no clear-cut choices like Mourinho or Conte this time if we're looking at their CVs at least.

However, at this point in time, I do not see how, or when, we'll get an uptick in form under Ange. He's clearly not lost the dressing room, but he looks no closer to achieving positive results. The downward trajectory has been a constant since the game against Chelsea a year ago. We have Rangers, Soton, United, Liverpool, Forest, and Wolves coming up. I can honestly see us winless in December at this rate. Perhaps we can hope for a win against Soton or Wolves.

• 1 win in the last 7 since October
• 2 points out of 18 against Leicester, Bournemouth, Fulham, Palace, Ipswich, Brighton
• 19 losses in 40 league games

For me, it comes down to expectations. As it is now, I barely expect a top-half finish if he stays. I have big question marks around his decision-making, squad building, and talent spotting.
Can you honestly tell me you would not expect a higher finish, and be more confident in some of the names you suggested than under Ange?

We once took a chance on a bloke who never finished higher than ninth in the league when we didn't get Louis van Gaal. I'd say he did ok. Sometimes it's not about the name, but about the right fit at the right time.

I don't think Ange is either.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Thing is players like Sarr are still young. So it has to be deep rooted within the club for these players to make these sort of mistakes. It's like the senior players are not there to guide the younger ones. It's almost ironic that Bissouma also have away a penalty first because he's the sort of player Sarr would learn from. Almost copying what his mentor did. This is my issue with signing young players to develop. The older ones are a bad example around them.

Unfortunately I think Bissouma has a similar mentality to Maddison

Could both be fantastic players but don’t put it in, nearly enough

Bentancur is a much more solid and dependable pro to learn from

 

[michaelj70]

This is picking and choosing the games to suit your agenda. Before this shite run (which unsurprisingly has coincided with more injuries), I'm sure we'd won like 10 of our 12 games. Would that suggest that we were fairly consistent with some occasional (very) poor results?

I get all the arguments levelled against Ange, though I think it's lazy to call him incompetent or that his system doesn't work. It very clearly works, but it does require a level of commitment, fitness and talent that I don't think we quite have at the moment.

True words indeed Definitely the talent bit We are sorely not at our perceived level of talent Son has been there but atm really far off the mark
Hopefully Lucas and Archie raise our talent level but how sad we are relying on such younguns

 

[mil1lion]

Unfortunately I think Bissouma has a similar mentality to Maddison

Could both be fantastic players but don’t put it in, nearly enough

Bentancur is a much more solid and dependable pro to learn from

The same Bentancur who got suspended for club and then country for 2 separate incidents? Not sure he is to be honest.

 

[G Ron]

Sancho spelling out their simple gameplan yesterday:
Speaking in the interview, Sancho was initially asked: “You have so much attacking talent and you know, Spurs look a little bit defensively frail at the moment – you always would have felt that there were goals in for you?”

He replied: “Definitely, they’re very aggressive and we knew we would catch them if we broke the lines and beat their press.

“The gaffer always told us in training to stay wide, especially the wingers to create the one-vs-ones, you know the overlaps for two-vs-ones.

It has been how we've conceded so many of our chances and goals, either this or people just breaking on us or crossing in behind our defensive line.

Yep - the long cross field ball was on every time for their wide forwards and we did nothing to counter it, leaving our fullbacks 1v1 time after time.

 

[14/04/91]

Maybe i am being controversial, but i didnt think we played that badly yesterday. The jury is out on ange, granted.

Again, we were undone by individual errors and a slice of luck. The deflection for their 3rd, right into the path of Enzo.

We didn’t play badly in terms of effort and some of our individual performances. In fact, Ange said he thought we played pretty well.

And that’s the problem. It’s the way we play; Chelsea found it far too easy to play between the lines, players were dragged out/caught out of position and really we were outplayed for at least an hour of the game. Merson is a div but he was spot on at half time when he said Chelsea don’t lose this game.

It’s the same by-product of how he plays and sets us up. Clever players & coaches will find lots and lots of space which will lead to us conceding lots and lots of chances.

 

[DJS]

They were bought to play as wingbacks if i remember.

Neither of them are competent defenders.

Typical of our recruitment really as both would probably have thrived under Conte’s system lol.

 

[mil1lion]

You make valid points, as always. You are right in that there are no clear-cut choices like Mourinho or Conte this time if we're looking at their CVs at least.

However, at this point in time, I do not see how, or when, we'll get an uptick in form under Ange. He's clearly not lost the dressing room, but he looks no closer to achieving positive results. The downward trajectory has been a constant since the game against Chelsea a year ago. We have Rangers, Soton, United, Liverpool, Forest, and Wolves coming up. I can honestly see us winless in December at this rate. Perhaps we can hope for a win against Soton or Wolves.

• 1 win in the last 7 since October
• 2 points out of 18 against Leicester, Bournemouth, Fulham, Palace, Ipswich, Brighton
• 19 losses in 40 league games

For me, it comes down to expectations. As it is now, I barely expect a top-half finish if he stays. I have big question marks around his decision-making, squad building, and talent spotting.
Can you honestly tell me you would not expect a higher finish, and be more confident in some of the names you suggested than under Ange?

We once took a chance on a bloke who never finished higher than ninth in the league when we didn't get Louis van Gaal. I'd say he did ok. Sometimes it's not about the name, but about the right fit at the right time.

I don't think Ange is either.

Sorry but this simply is not true. There have been ups as well as downs. Too many downs which is the main concern. But to say it's been consistently downward is far off. I think start of this season we looked on an upward again. It then got more inconsistent in terms of performance where before results were inconsistent but we were playing well in the league games. Only recently we've seen a consistent run of poor performances to match the poor results.