Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[mil1lion]

Not sure, I feel like Levy has always gotten away with the “January is a difficult market” and “the new manager needs to assess what he has already” lines before. The only exception to that as far as I can remember was Redknapp but in that case it was clear that Levy had shat himself about relegation after we went on our first ropey run under him. We didn’t back Jose in his first window. He OKed Bergwijn but didn’t get the striker he was desperate for.

I don’t see who he could have lined up that would be impressive enough to keep the fans at bay. No Conte’s or Mourinho’s available this time and it would be the longest interim stint for Mason by some distance which would go down like a cup of cold sick with the fans.

I think he either gets his wallet out a bit in January to take the blame away from himself or he doesn’t and tries to ride out the abuse until the summer where he inevitably gives Ange the chop unless he performs miracles in the second half of the season. If you’re Levy the second route is a massive gamble if we become completely cut adrift from the top 6.

With the injuries at the moment, if Ange gets powderpuff support in January the blame for the most part will be directed Levy’s way imo. And that would be the longest amount of time he’s probably had to deal with that level of match day abuse for about 10-12 years.

I just don't see us changing our targets in January after what Ange said about signing experience. I think that's toeing the company line and anyone we bring in January is going to still be young. Hopefully early 20s though and not teenagers.

 

[Cochise]

I do get fed up of this….he didn’t back Poch rubbish. Even Simon Jordan was at it the other day.
Summer of 2019 . Remember it . If you really are a spurs fan you should know we bought
Ndombele 54m
Lo Celso…around 40m
Sessegnon. 20-25m
Over 100m . Poch definitely wanted the first 2.
Poch is not a good judge of a player. Very lucky that virtually all his best players were here when he arrived or the transfer was in progress . He had no part in Dele transfer.
Dav Sanchez was one of his, Jansen also.
Did a good job at Chelsea with players who were bought by their recruitment team .

I'd say Poch wasn't backed properly for a number of years and those signings came in too late. I agree he wasn't a great talent spotter, but once he'd found a great XI we never signed players that were of the same calibre.

 

[only1waddle]

Yeah I get it, but if we didn’t chop AVB after 16 months, we wouldn’t have experienced what we did under Poch. So sometimes chopping for a new manager does work.

True, but that may have broken down behind the scenes too, not just the pitch.

We're supposedly in a much healthier position than we were then, but the recruitment messes with managers turning us down, the Gattuso fiasco etc etc, it's another level.

 

[Nerine]

From a sporting perspective, we don’t really have a purpose.
That comes from board level.
The fans are so in the dark/confused about what we’re trying to achieve (if anything) that understandably it makes it incredibly difficult to get behind whatever project is happening.

Let’s be honest, we haven’t a fucking clue.

Will Ange be backed? Will he be sacked? Will we be back here in 12 months time? Will we address squad holes in January? Have lessons been learned? Is this a long-term project?


Actually….

I’ve just thought. If Levy sacks Ange it’ll be the worst move he could make. He apparently wanted to start a new project, develop youth, play exciting football again, change the club culture, etc.


If Levy sacks him, it’ll prove (yet again) that it was all bollocks and Danny boy is just paying lip service to the fans.

interesting times ahead.

 

[SpursSince1980]

Disagree with this - if you are an ambitious club you pay the money to get the best coach - if that means a big compensation payment, so be it.
There are plenty of good managers out there and so I don’t by this “who is better than Ange” stance at all.

Marco Silva and Thomas Frank are just two that immediately come to mind from the top half prem teams and I’m sure there are plenty of other top manager across Europe and beyond.

I don’t see why they would leave their clubs mid season. What’s the appeal of working for Levy? What’s the appeal of our fans? Levy never fully supports his coaches and uses them as scapegoats. As for the fans… we turn on our manager very quickly. Which is fine, as it symbolic of our frustration. Too many years of mediocrity. Too many near misses.

I get it. You don’t like Ange and feel the aforementioned guys could walk in today and do a better job. Maybe you’re right. But practically speaking, why do you feel so confident that they’d abandon their current clubs mid season just because we want them? Any coach worth a damn should absolutely hesitate before supping from this poisoned chalice.

 

[jakuba]

IMO players we’ve signed in the recent past who were ‘very good’ are the likes of:
-Lloris
-Walker
-Toby
-Jan
-Dembele
-Wanyama
-Eriksen
-Son
-Dele
-Modric
-Berbatov
-Keane
-Defoe
-Carrick
-Bale
-Lennon
-Van Der Vaart

The play I bolded were effectively 1st team ready sure bets to go into our starting 11 from the moment they signed for our 1st team and all went on to form the basis of our most successful period in the last 30 years. I’m aware there’s players in that list who were part of that peak Poch squad but they were more punts than those in bold when you consider the pedigree Lloris as French captain had when we signed him, same with Jan as Ajax captain, Toby off the back of a belter season at Southampton who we only managed to sign because Saints fucked up the paperwork.

The thing is we got each and every one of them at an absolute snip and those deals simply do not exist anymore in the current market. Look at the difference between what we paid for Wanyama vs what we paid for Hojbjerg only 4 years later. Literally double the price for someone not as good as Wanyama.

The most any one of those players cost was barely 20 odd million - for a first team ready player with their best years ahead of them. It would be at least 3x that for an equivalent player these days and our board don’t seem to have grasped that and think they can build a squad buying one player like that a summer then the rest as young prospects.

Expecting the manager to soak up the hits and eventually take the fall whilst we wait 5 years for Moore, Yang, Gray, Odobert, Vuskovic and Bergvall to potentially make the jump to be quality 1st team players isn’t even giving the manager enough rope to hang themselves, it’s giving them a slow walk to the firing squad.

They surely know it’s a long shot for even 3 of that group to go on to be half as good as they hope to be. Even then by the time that happens, what does the rest of squad look like? We’ve seen it happen enough to know that it’s chock full of holes that won’t get plugged for another 5 years as we’re left with a half baked squad that will fall short more than it’ll step up.

All I can hope for is that we really are playing the long game and are at the suffering stage. Which I can live with for a time, but as I said we’ve seen this enough times to know I’m likely wrong and it’s just throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks then go from there.

 

[easley91]

I see we have reached the winning is the only thing that matters part of the cycle.

People didn't want Mourinho and Conte because they were "boring" and defensive. They wanted someone who played the "Tottenham way".

We'll sack Ange, get a pragmatic coach/manager then they will be hounded out because it's not exciting enough to watch.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[mil1lion]

It's not like we succeeded a great deal under Conte and Jose. We had half a season of good football under Conte and finished 4th. Not many were complaining about the brand of football then. Fans were chanting his name a lot. It came apart the following season when results dropped. So yes the brand of football is important but winning still trumps that. Exciting football without results make fans sad. Boring football but wins make the fans content.

 

[G Ron]

I just want to touch on others saying we play amazing football…

Do people who go to the games really believe this

I don’t see why they would leave their clubs mid season. What’s the appeal of working for Levy? What’s the appeal of our fans? Levy never fully supports his coaches and uses them as scapegoats. As for the fans… we turn on our manager very quickly. Which is fine, as it symbolic of our frustration. Too many years of mediocrity. Too many near misses.

I get it. You don’t like Ange and feel the aforementioned guys could walk in today and do a better job. Maybe you’re right. But practically speaking, why do you feel so confident that they’d abandon their current clubs mid season just because we want them? Any coach worth a damn should absolutely hesitate before supping from this poisoned chalice.

I don’t dislike Ange mate, I want him to succeed of course as I love Spurs, but I just think he’s way too stubborn and he’s said he will always play this way. I don’t think you can play our style each game in the prem as the standard of the league is too good, in which case if he’s not prepared to be flexible then I don’t feel he’s right for us.

Agree re any potential replacement - this job is a poisoned chalice and almost always a blot on a managers CV. No manager will get adequately backed.

I disagree with the fans - I think we are in the most part a patient group all things considered. We’re the serial underachievers and the only “big 6” club with nothing to show for 16 years. There will always be a few idiots (as demonstrated in the videos from Bournemouth), but considering our inconsistency I’ve yet to see / hear any real vitriol towards the manager at home matches before this week.

 

[Misfit]

I see we have reached the winning is the only thing that matters part of the cycle.

People didn't want Mourinho and Conte because they were "boring" and defensive. They wanted someone who played the "Tottenham way".

We'll sack Ange, get a pragmatic coach/manager then they will be hounded out because it's not exciting enough to watch.

Rinse and repeat.

Yep, though tbf, Mourinho and Conte didn't have us grinding out wins at the end either which helped hurry things along. But you're right, remove those two examples and the pattern has still repeated throughout.

 

[rossdapep]

Ange is probably the coach before the coach that does really well, if that makes sense.

We've had 'new eras' before where the club sign a load of future players or players not quite excellent.

Rather than stick it out, Levy fires the coach and its the next coach or one after that that reaps the benefits.

Poch got the best of AVBs buys (Lloris, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Dembele).

Redknapp got the best out of Jol's/Santini/Pleat/Ramos buys (Assou Ekotto, Jenas, Modric, Corluka) although he was able to bring in a lot of players in January when levy shit himself at the thought of relegation.

Yes these coaches got a couple of extra players to help but the nucleus was there in some form and it needed a bit of time to let the players become more developed/consistent.

I feel like the guy after Ange or the one after is going to benefit greatly from the likes of Gray, Bergvall, Moore, Vuskovic, Udogie, Sarr etc.

That's what normally happens when you buy potential but have bigger targets such as top 4.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

We're at each others throats on this because on the one hand some of us want him to be given time and see where that goes and on the other, people want us to sack him so they can get on with wanting the next guy out

 

[mil1lion]

McKenna out!

 

[kitchen]

My emotions relating to Tottenham have changed massively in a positive way since deleting Twitter in September (I know who’d have thunk it!). Everything feels so much less catastrophic and all or nothing.

This is half the problem. Tribalism in football has become more important than the football itself. Results are more important than entertainment. All anyone seems to care about is bragging rights. The ability for us to laud over the gooners etc. The media, social media and bragging rights culture, as well as the money is slowly killing the sport.

We've got lucky to get a manager who is one of the games great entertainers, is showing great progress through constantly improving stats, and we're not willing to give him time because he's lost some games with a decimated squad.

3 key players in particular (Romero, VDV and Bentancur) are a huge loss, and no managers can really cope with losing 3 key cogs in the spine of their team like that. Arsenal without Rice, Saliba and Gabriel would drop off big time. Liverpool without VVD, Konate and Gravenberch would drop off big time. Why should we be any different?

I'll tell you why. Because if/when we lose today then Chelsea and Arsenal fans will say 'spurs are shit' and it hurts our feelings. Grow up and look at the bigger picture guys.

 

[Gb160]

We've got lucky to get a manager who is one of the games great entertainers, is showing great progress through constantly improving stats, and we're not willing to give him time because he's lost some games with a decimated squad.

wait...where ?

 

[kitchen]

wait...where ?

Top scorers in the league. Amongst the best xG and xGA stats. Best pressing and turnover rates etc... We've probably dropped off a bit since the injuries but this is where we were last I checked.

 

[Gb160]

Top scorers in the league. Amongst the best xG and xGA stats. Best pressing and turnover rates etc... We've probably dropped off a bit since the injuries but this is where we were last I checked.

So largely pointless stats.
People are getting antsy because of the played, won, drawn and lost stats...y'know the important ones.
Just feels like we're treading water, personally I don't want Ange sacked but that's because I don't feel he's been given the tools required to do the job he's been tasked with.
I'd love to see what he could do if he was properly backed.

 

[muppetman]

Disagree with this - if you are an ambitious club you pay the money to get the best coach - if that means a big compensation payment, so be it.
There are plenty of good managers out there and so I don’t by this “who is better than Ange” stance at all.

Marco Silva and Thomas Frank are just two that immediately come to mind from the top half prem teams and I’m sure there are plenty of other top manager across Europe and beyond.

Thomas Frank chomping on gum with his mouth open? Not for me, Clive!

 

[Tucker]

McKenna out!

He‘s yesterday’s news, I’m getting in early and demanding 2052 coach Mikey Moore be sacked for not understanding the new multi ball phase rules properly.

 

[kitchen]

So largely pointless stats.
People are getting antsy because of the played, won, drawn and lost stats...y'know the important ones.
Just feels like we're treading water, personally I don't want Ange sacked but that's because I don't feel he's been given the tools required to do the job he's been tasked with.
I'd love to see what he could do if he was properly backed.

If you think they're pointless stats, you need to do some research.

XG and XGA as well as goal difference are usually really good indicators of long term success. Funnily enough City tend to be highest on those stats, and they might have won the league 6 times too...

I agree with the second part of your statement however. The whole point is that with the right tools and the right squad, he will turn those into actual goals and clean sheets, and points.