Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[TOMSPUR]

If we don't push the boat out and get him what he needs then we aren't seeing anything through. We are half arsing it for yet another manager.

I genuinely don't know how much clearer I can make my stance regarding Ange. If we had a board I knew would back him properly I'd be far more inclined to see where he could take us. Imo he needs a fully built squad of 'right fit' players to make his tactics work properly, and he will never get that here.

Funnily enough this is one of the main reasons I believe Ange is perfect for Spurs. I'm one of those people with Celtic mates, a couple with a bit of inside knowledge, who heard great things about him.
When he agreed to manage Celtic, he told Dermot Desmond that the entire squad needed to be overhauled & he demanded final say on all players. DD agreed, as long as Ange stuck to budget.
Ange gives very clear guidance on the specific skills he requires for players in each position. A players age, experience or league they come from or transfer fee aren't deal breakers.....Anges interview is!
He backs himself 100% when it comes to identifying the right characteristics required to play for him. I fully believe he feels he has been backed at Spurs, when he still says all players signed are on him.
As you will know, building a squad with depth is about more than just being able to rotate on matchdays. 1 or 2 poor players, with questionable attitudes, can kill a training session. Ange demands high intensity, high quality in training....not convinced that can be there right now.
I hope he's given this & next season to identify additional signings like Vic, Micky VDV, Madders & Solanke, players Levy was happy to spend money on. Additional time to integrate our young talent with those new signings & have a squad built by Ange.
If it's still hit & miss then.....he'll deserve to be sacked, but for me, definitely not now.

 

[jolsnogross]

I disagree. We may put a bit of money for transfer fees like Solanke, but we are not going to pay the wages the top 6 pay, and that’s why no elite players will want to join us.

Who would you buy for more than 65M and pay high wages for? I mean, newcastle went out and got Isak for similar to what we got solanke, I think. On the other hand, United have spent big on Anthony. Liverpool on Darwin Nunez.

It really isn't that easy. And it's more about pick right ones than splashing cash.

 

[Bobbins]

There's no Plan B. No viable alternative.

Unless we're genuinely in danger of relegation there's nothing to be lost by sticking with Ange and giving him a good part of next season too.

We never stick with anything so it's the only remaining alternative that we've not actually tried.

 

[olliec]

Who would you buy for more than 65M and pay high wages for? I mean, newcastle went out and got Isak for similar to what we got solanke, I think. On the other hand, United have spent big on Anthony. Liverpool on Darwin Nunez.

It really isn't that easy. And it's more about pick right ones than splashing cash.

But Newcastle are capped due to FFP. Otherwise they would spend like city. We have a much higher revenue stream than Newcastle.

 

[rossdapep]

What’s the difference?

And if you could snap your fingers, who do you think would be a better fit? Just curious.

Frankly, I think we have a sub par squad compared to those we’ve seen over the last 10 years. This one couldn’t hold a candle to Poch team. I think we also has greater depth with Conte and Jose.

Likewise, the aforementioned guys had prime Sonny and Kane. Ange has neither.

So, let’s say we bring in a “better coach”… could they squeeze more from this squad, dealing with the same set of injuries, as the current manager? If so, sign me up.

Exactly.

Other than Deki, noone is a real standout in their position compared to the rest of the league.

Poch had all of Eriksen, Kane, Son, Alli, Jan, Toby and Dembele that other clubs envied us for having.

Jose had all of prime Son, Kane and an injured but still incredible attacker in Bale. Toby, Jan and Lloris were still decent experienced pros.

You could make a case for Van de Ven but he keeps getting these hamstring strains and Toby and Jan were hardly ever injured.

Romero is probably there but i think he switches off too often to be in that bracket.

After that it's a mix of young players who are still growing or haven't even really got into PL level football yet or experienced PL players who have a reputation for being a bit up and down with consistency from previous clubs.

Our team vastly lacks consistent top end players.

 

[mil1lion]

I keep seeing people saying changing the manager isn’t going to make things better and it’s missing the simple fact that the lack of flexibility is one of our key issues.

Lack of flexibility isn't the reason players don't mark a player on a corner or let runners go in the box. It's not the reason players can't pass a ball under pressure either. Or even when not under pressure at times. Nor the reason why players miss good chances when we create so many. Or why certain players just go missing so much.

 

[rossdapep]

Paul o’Keene made an interesting observation. He thinks Anges downfall won’t be if the fans turn on him, but we turn on Levy.

He thinks Levy is a coward so he will be reactive if he personally gets some shit. It wasn’t ITK , more opinion but I think he may have a point.

I fully expect plenty of anti Levy chants tomorrow and if we lose it could be interesting.

I'm not so sure.

If Levy was to sack him, then there is no Jose or Conte type coach waiting in the wings to pull the wool over everyone's eyes.

He sure as hell isn't going to offer Brighton, Brentford or Bournemouth 20m or whatever for their coach.

He puts someone like Matt Wells in charge and it lasts 1 or 2 games before fans get even more irate at him.

The easiest way for Levy to get fans off his back is to buy a couple of players in January and state that they are behind Ange and realise he's had a really tough period.

 

[VoteMe4Prez]

Levy doesn't need booing, he needs to be told to spend on top quality

 

[Mjerda]

Best for Levy, but maybe not best for us as a football club.

We need to see something through for once, pick a direction and commit to it properly.
Ange may or may not be the best man for the job but once, just once, I'd like to give a manager a decent chance at success.

Otherwise we're just doomed to this constant cycle of shit.

Totally agree, and even though a few on here are banging on about giving someone time is no guarantee for success (of course it's not), we've tried the opposite and it hasn't worked. If we had unlimited money, I'd be less patient, but with our transfer policy, doing a rebuild will take years.

Ange needs rather specific players for his system to work and he's not in a position where he can buy from the top shelf. We will have some hits and quite a few misses, but hopefully given time, we will get there.

What's surprising, is how quite a few are complaining about inconsistency 18 months into our rebuild. Everything is still quite new to everyone, and at this level, and especially with the style Ange is trying to instill, small details can make everything collapse during a match. You learn, adjust and go again, but it's not happening over night and some of our problems can only be solved with new players, requiring even more patience.

For me, backing Ange is easy, as I really like his approach to the game and even if he ends up trophy less down the line, I hope the next guy will have a good foundation to build on. It would be harder for me backing a 5 year rebuild to make our squad fit Mourinho's principles, to put it that way

 

[gibbospurs]

Funnily enough this is one of the main reasons I believe Ange is perfect for Spurs. I'm one of those people with Celtic mates, a couple with a bit of inside knowledge, who heard great things about him.
When he agreed to manage Celtic, he told Dermot Desmond that the entire squad needed to be overhauled & he demanded final say on all players. DD agreed, as long as Ange stuck to budget.
Ange gives very clear guidance on the specific skills he requires for players in each position. A players age, experience or league they come from or transfer fee aren't deal breakers.....Anges interview is!
He backs himself 100% when it comes to identifying the right characteristics required to play for him. I fully believe he feels he has been backed at Spurs, when he still says all players signed are on him.
As you will know, building a squad with depth is about more than just being able to rotate on matchdays. 1 or 2 poor players, with questionable attitudes, can kill a training session. Ange demands high intensity, high quality in training....not convinced that can be there right now.
I hope he's given this & next season to identify additional signings like Vic, Micky VDV, Madders & Solanke, players Levy was happy to spend money on. Additional time to integrate our young talent with those new signings & have a squad built by Ange.
If it's still hit & miss then.....he'll deserve to be sacked, but for me, definitely not now.

All sounds amazing. But anyone can say if you back me with all the players I want in the world I will win. It doesn't happen tho. He got his new striker. He's signed 2 wingers and asked for Werner to come back. He sold holberg and excepted Bergval as a replacement. Now clearly he may not have wanted all of the above. But surely he must of backed the majority of it. Anyway. It was clear from mid to back end of last season things would change. And it's now another half a season down the pan. His system will not work whoever we have. The ball over the top will happen. There is no players making the mistake, it's the fact there are no players there defending the ball played.
Fuck it. I'm Frank all in now. Bring wissa and muembo too. A striker that scores and a winger who runs at defenders.

 

[cliff jones]

My vitriol? What?

My issue IS with Levy. Is that not abundantly clear??

I’m also annoyed at the twattish fans slamming Ange because they don’t have the mental fortitude to see the bigger picture at play, even though it’s glaringly obvious.

I.e. Levy.

Hope clears up my position for you…

I'm clear on your position and have been standing there myself for quite some time.

The odd boo won't hurt him. Ignore the one idiot in the clip.

Thursday's game was changed by another shitty set piece concession, which Ange has again suggested is unacceptable in that it allowed the oppo to play the game on their terms. Beyond that, we were the better team in the first half.

These moments decide where the points go. But he still ain't doing enough to prevent these from happening. Mason, Jedinak- whoever is on these and our own shitty set pieces needs to move aside. There must be another out there that went to to same school as the numpty making Arteta look better than he is?

 

[jolsnogross]

But Newcastle are capped due to FFP. Otherwise they would spend like city. We have a much higher revenue stream than Newcastle.

But we chose to spend our 65M plus wages on Solanke rather than find the next Isak. Thats the point. We'll spend plenty more again next summer, but will it be on another Solanke, one of the highest transfers from last summer? Or someone who can make a bigger impact. United are spending tons on wages but they're no better than us.

 

[$hoguN]

Lack of flexibility isn't the reason players don't mark a player on a corner or let runners go in the box. It's not the reason players can't pass a ball under pressure either. Or even when not under pressure at times. Nor the reason why players miss good chances when we create so many. Or why certain players just go missing so much.

It’s part of it. That’s why coaching works and why Arsenal have the best set pieces in the league.

The type of chances we create, how we put ourselves under pressure to pick a pass out from the back all comes from the system. If you can’t adapt it and show flexibility, teams know what you are going to do. Hence why Ipswich etc have pressed us in similar ways and made us look ineffective.

You have watched football before right?

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

Completely disagree with this. The football at times has been absolutely glorious. Inconsistent, sure, but far from mediocre.

I don’t think it’s an honest assessment if you choose to ignore the context of the injuries, squad depth issues and poor transfer windows either.

It’s like hiring a builder to do an extension only letting him use half his tools, half his supplies and then moaning because it’s not finished yet.

If you want to use that analogy I think you will find that most of the supporters are frustrated that Ange is trying to use half the tools in the wrong way. He could use the tools he has left in a better way. Carrying on with his way is breaking the tools he has left.

 

[arunspurs]

Completely disagree with this. The football at times has been absolutely glorious. Inconsistent, sure, but far from mediocre.

I don’t think it’s an honest assessment if you choose to ignore the context of the injuries, squad depth issues and poor transfer windows either.

It’s like hiring a builder to do an extension only letting him use half his tools, half his supplies and then moaning because it’s not finished yet.

Football is still a results business. Results wise it’s mediocre or even worse. You can’t blame injuries - we only win consistently when Van De Ven plays… and when he plays he makes 4 to 5 superhuman sprints a game which he doesn’t need to , if we had balance. So it’s a matter of time his hamstring goes . I told this in April & also this September.

Playing only attack, choosing not to focus on defending in transition or in set pieces is down to Ange.

Attacking football may be glorious but if he doesn’t want to focus on other part of game , he won’t survive in PL.

 

[tototoner]

Could that fan that shouted "Fuck off you fat ****" please be banned? It's just not needed.

These are the same fans who wanted us to be beaten by Man City last season so Arsenal didn’t win the league. Costing us a CL position.

Get rid of these fans

 

[Rout-Ledge]

These are the same fans who wanted us to be beaten by Man City last season so Arsenal didn’t win the league. Costing us a CL position.

Get rid of these fans

That is not remotely comparable with verbally abusing our own manager

 

[SA_Spurs]

All sounds amazing. But anyone can say if you back me with all the players I want in the world I will win. It doesn't happen tho. He got his new striker. He's signed 2 wingers and asked for Werner to come back. He sold holberg and excepted Bergval as a replacement. Now clearly he may not have wanted all of the above. But surely he must of backed the majority of it. Anyway. It was clear from mid to back end of last season things would change. And it's now another half a season down the pan. His system will not work whoever we have. The ball over the top will happen. There is no players making the mistake, it's the fact there are no players there defending the ball played.
Fuck it. I'm Frank all in now. Bring wissa and muembo too. A striker that scores and a winger who runs at defenders.

lol, then rinse/repeat with Frank whilst the same shit happens. Have you not realised that even Frank will come with specific players on his list. That will mean getting rid of some of the players ange bought (we all know how greedy levy is, so he will want top dollar & those players will stagnate here for 2/3 seasons, clogging up Frank's budget & preventing bringing in his players). When he eventually gets these players, it still won't be all of what he needs, results will tank, fans will moan at poor form/results (same noise as now) & then DL will fire & hire someone new.

When will fans learn? Why can't people see DL & Enics con?

 

[NEVILLEB]

He’s the highest paid chairman in the PL. Tells you everything you need to know.

Yes exactly.

The way he doesn’t take responsibility and blames the Managers is sickening.

I feel the same mate. It's got nothing to do with poor results, but I'm really finding it hard to care so much when the club doesn't care near as much as the fans when it comes to success on the pitch. It’s making me feel a disconnect that I've never had before, as I've always previously had a fair bit of hope, but it's so minimal right now. I've said multiple times and even though there are numerous and probably clearer examples of this over the years, I was woken up to where we are as a club right now after the summer just gone. Despite what may have happened previously, I still got excited by thought of Eze and Neto or equivalent's, because I stupidly thought they were genuine possibilities. And after sorely needing some genuine quality in the final third we end up with Werner, Yang, Odobert and Solanke, and all after Kane leaving too. It just spoke volumes.

When he sacked Poch after not freshening up the squad i emotionally checked out. Madness.

 

[SA_Spurs]

Football is still a results business. Results wise it’s mediocre or even worse. You can’t blame injuries - we only win consistently when Van De Ven plays… and when he plays he makes 4 to 5 superhuman sprints a game which he doesn’t need to , if we had balance. So it’s a matter of time his hamstring goes . I told this in April & also this September.

Playing only attack, choosing not to focus on defending in transition or in set pieces is down to Ange.

Attacking football may be glorious but if he doesn’t want to focus on other part of game , he won’t survive in PL.

Where does the "choosing not to focus on defending & set pieces" accusation come from? This season we have conceded 1 set piece goal. We have the 3rd best defensive record? But don't let facts get in the way of ......go look at the comical goals we have conceded & you can pinpoint individual concentration errors (back post defending is the one area we haven't sorted fully yet but even that got netter compared to last season).

I agree football is results, but the margins are fine. Last season, our first 10 games. We thrilled our fans and won many games but we could have lost a few of them & even then Ange was termpering expectations saying we're still building. Now, he's getting judged in the most ridiculous manner (by those 10 games & the points tally after 10 games + a ridiculous injury list). Again, Ange is not wthout his flaws but show me which manger would cope with all his 1st choice defenders out, his best midfielder suspended, no back up in attack. City lost Rodri - 1 player! and they have collapsed! A couple of seasons ago, Liverpool lost VVD, same story. Arse lost odegaard and couldn't score a goal - even with their set piece attack.

How do we get balance? We need the right players, or at least a sufficient squad, to be able to play at the intensity he wants. As a fan, when we're at full tilt, the football is simply breathtaking and it's in our DNA to entertain and play attacking football. I want that, I believe most, if not all, spurs fans want that! We're only 18 months into a rebuild that should have happened 5 years ago. In that time, we have had 4 managers, hardly got rid of any players not wanted until Ange & Lange came along. We played a completely different style of football under those managers - counter attack, possession light (position heavy), defensive football. We've literally gone the complete opposite to that now - possession heavy, position light, attacking football. We still don't have all the pieces needed for the system to function fully but surely we see enough good signs to at least allow ange to be judged at the end of this season?

Or do we fire him, replace him with Mason, suffer the same inconsistency but with a manager most fans seem to like & tolerate because he won't double down on his principles in press conferences and come across as arrogant. Btw. we don't know what Mason's philosophy is as whenever he's come in, he continues what was there before maybe with some minor tweaks - i personally don't rate him as a manager but that's only because he's never managed on his own, with his own team of players - he may yet turn out to be a brilliant manager but needs to go do it elsewhere to prove himself. Let's say this happens anyway? Who would we appoint next season & how much do you expect DL and the board to back whoever they appoint with the kind of players they need to succeed? It's a genuine question!