Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Cambridge Spur]

Apologies, I did try to follow the thread of posts you were replying to, and just thought I would add to your response, no malice intended.

No worries mate, nothing wrong with a bit of a debate and differing opinions. I love it.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I look forward to him joining us and failing to succeed in a couple of years when Chelsea have sacked him.

Is this before or after we sign Tuchel, Lampard and Poch?

 

[Fidget]

I don't disagree with people that we need to see through a project, and can't continue with this cycle of hiring and firing, but does anyone really think Ange will be backed?

He needs a top class DM, and 2 very good WF as a minimum. Not kids who may come good in a couple of years. If he isn't going to be backed (which we know he won't), then what's the point in limping along?

I think people asking for a change know Ange won't be backed, and hope we get lucky by stumbling across a new Poch type. They don't have anything against Ange, and want him to succeed, but realise he won't compromise on his principles and won't be backed.

The reason we have a divided fanbase is because of one man, and one may only. Daniel bloody Levy.

Who is a great businessman and successful at that.
Surely he’s got more than one trick in his hat though and it wouldn’t hurt his reputation to try build a great football team too? His business skills could easily find the money from somewhere else in the books!
Poch did well (what a team, f***ing Leicester) but was a bit lucky with the right players coming good from cheap purchases and youth players and when it came to backing his success with money, we know the story. In fact we could see the story unravelling long before we somehow got to that cursed CL final.
Levy to blame for the team’s current struggles and Levy the only one who can back any manager with what they need. And it’s more than just money, it’s the right deals.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

Not saints, just people who don’t abuse our players and managers as soon as they hit a bad run of form.

Hardly any wonder we don’t have a culture of players wanting to run through brick walls for the club - why would they with the way our glorious and revered fans go on with themselves when the team need their support the most?

You really hate our fans don’t you..

 

[Fidget]

As much as people think we overrate our players, we also have a tendency to underrate our players when things are going wrong.

Because they haven’t tried

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

They simply need to hire a coach rather than a manager. Not that I like it, but let’s accept recruitment is down to what the chairman dictates as in directives

I’m trying to think the last good ‘coach’ we actually hired.

Poch was a hybrid coach and manager, he could be flexible to an extent but had a fairly strong underlying principle of play.

Outside of that most managers or coaches we’ve hired have been very rigid and stubborn in their approach which doesn’t tend to fit well with Levy and our recruitment strategy.

 

[SpursSince1980]

Im not going to go through the whole site as cannot be arsed but there’s loads of “look at Arsenal and Arteta” comments with the implication being we just need to give Ange time rather than maybe considering that they actually got the right man at the right time.

Even in your post you say there’s a 99% chance that we go back to failing in 18 months. 99% really? Why? Again it’s this assumption that Ange is the best manager for the job and no one could possibly be doing any better (another comment I’ve seen plenty of but can’t be arsed to quote)

It’s all the same, as I said to A&C there’s not many people hedging their bets. People are very defensive over Ange and speaking with their or chests out which is fine but personally I can totally understand why people have serious doubts about him and worry that, actually, giving him time could make things worse but you seem to be 99% sire that’s not the case which is fine.

Maybe some--like me—aren’t defensive over Ange specifically. Rather, it is exhaustion with the process of starting over yet again.

As for the point about failing again with a new manager in 18 months… I wouldn’t take that as literal. Rather, it is indicative of us constantly changing our manager for four decades. Yes, we’ve had a few stay for three seasons and change over that time… but have still won F all. Only Ramos, Venables, and Graham have won trophies since 1984. We have gone through at least 25 gaffers since.

The best manager we have had during that time was Poch and he won nothing.

I get the impatience and doubt. But it has become our ‘go to’ when the chips are down. We can’t snap our fingers and bring in new players. We can’t make Levy leave. We can only make our home ground hostile to the coach, as that’s the easiest change to make. The only area where fans have a tiny smidge of influence.

The fan base is restless. I have supported Spurs since 1980, and I have just about given up. They delight me and infuriate me. Ultimately the team has had far too much of an impact on my mental wellbeing at times. That’s not good.

So, I just don’t see how changing Ange out will help us get over this multi generational hump. Why not try something completely weird… something we actually havent done in 40 years… give the manager more time, and hope that if they get more of the players they need, a bit of luck with injuries, and they also apply a wee more flexibility to their tactics… Then who knows?

Weve tried everything and everyone else. Why not try something bizarre like giving the coach a three year remit?

 

[freeeki]

You really hate our fans don’t you..

Our fans who call our manager a fat ****? Yes, I wish they’d fuck off to Arsenal, which is more their level.

Our fans who defend those described above, making excuses for their behaviour? I don’t hate them, I just think they’re absolute wet wipes.

 

[Bobbins]

I look forward to him joining us and failing to succeed in a couple of years when Chelsea have sacked him.

If he ever did join us you just know all the tactical flexibility would disappear all of a sudden because apparently we can only hire managers who play one way and never change.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

Our fans who call our manager a fat ****? Yes, I wish they’d fuck off to Arsenal, which is more their level.

Our fans who defend those described above, making excuses for their behaviour? I don’t hate them, I just think they’re absolute wet wipes.

This has been my whole point though….

You have constantly bad mouthed all of our fans, I have tried to praise our fans whilst calling out the ones that abuse but you won’t have it.

Apparently we’re all shit!

 

[SpursSince1980]

They simply need to hire a coach rather than a manager. Not that I like it, but let’s accept recruitment is down to what the chairman dictates as in directives

What’s the difference?

And if you could snap your fingers, who do you think would be a better fit? Just curious.

Frankly, I think we have a sub par squad compared to those we’ve seen over the last 10 years. This one couldn’t hold a candle to Poch team. I think we also has greater depth with Conte and Jose.

Likewise, the aforementioned guys had prime Sonny and Kane. Ange has neither.

So, let’s say we bring in a “better coach”… could they squeeze more from this squad, dealing with the same set of injuries, as the current manager? If so, sign me up.

 

[freeeki]

This has been my whole point though….

You have constantly bad mouthed all of our fans, I have tried to praise our fans whilst calling out the ones that abuse but you won’t have it.

Apparently we’re all shit!

I think I’ve been pretty clear about the kinds of fans I’m talking about.

The fact you seem to want a list of names for who fits into each camp is neither here nor there.

 

[Fidget]

I keep seeing people saying changing the manager isn’t going to make things better and it’s missing the simple fact that the lack of flexibility is one of our key issues.

There can never be a certainty about any manager succeeding, unless we all have very, very short memories. We didn’t even back Poch when it came to nuts against the wall of plenty. It’s long ago time to make it happen.

 

[Fidget]

Paul o’Keene made an interesting observation. He thinks Anges downfall won’t be if the fans turn on him, but we turn on Levy.

He thinks Levy is a coward so he will be reactive if he personally gets some shit. It wasn’t ITK , more opinion but I think he may have a point.

I fully expect plenty of anti Levy chants tomorrow and if we lose it could be interesting.

Need a ‘crying’ response, don’t we

 

[pablo73]

Our fans who call our manager a fat ****? Yes, I wish they’d fuck off to Arsenal, which is more their level.

Our fans who defend those described above, making excuses for their behaviour? I don’t hate them, I just think they’re absolute wet wipes.

Has anyone on here actually defended that twat of a fan (singular) who called Ange a fat **** though?

I’ve seen loads of posts rightly laying into the aforementioned twat but haven’t seen anyone defending him.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

As with Mourinho and Conte, we knew this when we signed him to be our manager. He is steadfast in his approach and ideas and believes he doesn’t need to change it, he’s said as much all along.

Why does our board keep doing this? Hiring managers they know won’t change, and then sacking them for doing just that? Rhetorical questions ofcourse. We all know the answer.

They’re literally just throwing shit against the wall and hoping some of it will eventually stick.

It’s embarrassing at this point.

I don’t think the problem is ever hiring a manager who is “stead fast in his ways”. It’s more not backing him and allowing the manager sufficient time to build a squad that helps him realise his vision.

Hopefully this time the board ride the storm and give Ange time to continue building.

 

[Hercules]

What’s the difference?

And if you could snap your fingers, who do you think would be a better fit? Just curious.

Frankly, I think we have a sub par squad compared to those we’ve seen over the last 10 years. This one couldn’t hold a candle to Poch team. I think we also has greater depth with Conte and Jose.

Likewise, the aforementioned guys had prime Sonny and Kane. Ange has neither.

So, let’s say we bring in a “better coach”… could they squeeze more from this squad, dealing with the same set of injuries, as the current manager? If so, sign me up.

It is not what I like, but it seems logical to me anyway. Who they have bought in as managers so far is under false premises. They will never back the manager with the named players they may require. And i need not remind you of ‘we tried’ when really it was never going to happen. Chairman is reducing wages, lower aged profiles with potential. Work out the reasons for yourself. So no manager will ever have a choice or opinion. So why hire one? Hire a coach and tell him to ‘work with what we give you’. Ange gone public saying ‘no player comes in without his consent’. So then he had an input, even if a false one. I can’t see it working.

 

[chas vs dave]

You’re banging your head against a brick wall mate. There’s so many saints on here it’s unbelievable! Many of them have probably never been to a game in their lives.

Ive been to over 400 games, never felt like i wanted to abuse people.

They are only human.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

Ive been to over 400 games, never felt like i wanted to abuse people.

They are only human.

I can’t keep going round in circles. If you haven’t or don’t want to read my other posts then I understand.

Abuse of any kind is wrong! I have never said anything on the contrary.

 

[Dougal]

You sound like you only started following football last week or something. No one is defending people being abusive. But it’s tiring as fuck reading the non stop super fan brigade like you and many others telling people how to feel and act and how to be a “proper” fan.

I think the main issue is when the fans start acting like proper bellends. And filming their reaction as well so that they can show people they’re ’proper fans’. Eurgh.