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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Ange In or Ange Out?


  • Total voters
    878
  • Poll closed .

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
25,006
93,948
We've got too many injuries to play with the sort of intensity Ange needs for his style of football as well as playing a midweek fixture. The bench today was ludicrious, and it's not the fault of Ange:
  • B. Austin
  • L. Bergvall
  • D. Spence
  • A. Gray
  • D. Kulusevski
  • W. Lankshear
  • C. Olusesi
  • Sergio Reguilón
  • L. Williams-Barnett
There are basically 4 players there (not including Reguilon) that you'd trust to start a PL fixture at a push based off experience and known quality. We need players back quickly. We need genuine competition for the fullbacks, who were poor today (if Spence isn't going to be that) and we need to be able to rotate. Not only that but the impact off the bench is severely limited with a selection like that above. Only Kulu is going to really change things based on his quality.

It's tough for Ange. He wants to play high intensity but his players are tired and he can't rest them.
Exactly.

I was sitting there at 50 mins seeing us struggle thinking to myself that other than Deki, I don't know how Ange changes this.

Even Deki when he came on wasn't exactly sharp as he can be.

Bergvall is clearly still some way off so you don't know what you are going to get.

Gray is currently being used as a utility FB to help him adjust to elite football.

Spence coming in probably takes away the delivery and threat from long distance shots you get from Porro.

It is seriously slim pickings and I'm just not prepared to criticise Amge for that.
 

Danners9

Available on a Free Transfer
Mar 30, 2004
14,318
21,877
We just have to cope until the players come back. December is a tough month to be without your first choice goalie, first choice defensive pair, centre mid, and now, maybe, having to rejig the front three.

Fulham H
Bournemouth A
Chelsea H
Rangers A
Southampton A
Man Utd H
Liverpool H
Forest A
Wolves H

I don't even know what to suggest Ange does differently - except something he repeatedly says he won't do.

What it does show is how desperately the matchday squad needs strengthening. It's cool and all having youngsters on the bench but with so many games, you need players capable of making an impact. Sadly I don't have very high hopes for the January window.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
46,260
93,176
I’m not wrong. He did wait until they scored to make a change, that is a fact. I didn’t say it was a reaction to their goal. What I said was he based his lack of changes on the shoreline (ie that we were winning) not the performance. I suspect he would have made the change earlier if we weren’t 1 up, and given we didn’t deserve to be 1 up he should have done so anyway
You don't seem to be paying attention to the fact Kulusevski was already stripped and ready. So no the change was already decided before their goal.
 

Cochise

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
5,877
15,301
Play the kids in the league and if Levy complains we aren't going to hit his top 4 target we can point at the resources we have given the coach.

Ange is knackering out our few remaining first teamers because he doesn't trust the likes of Spence and Reguilon to rotate in nor Gray and Bergvall to cover midfield for anything more than 10-15 minutes. He wants to win every game and he still thinks his best route to that is using fatigued players.

Maybe he just needs to accept it's not going to get better, we will lose games but we'll lose even more if we lose Udogie and Porro long term. Just give the rotational players some starts and if it goes to shit point to our squad depth like most coaches would.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,427
59,047
Really disappointing today, clearly dead on our feet and Ange doesn't trust the kids to play a proper part yet. We have all called it, but the window in the summer was well below par. Other than Dom we didn't bring anyone in for this season.

Really worry for us in the coming weeks, lots of games and we are down to bare bones.
Yep said this repeatedly this season that once the games come thick and fast and the injuries mount our form will suffer as we just don’t have the depth and quality in the squad yet to cope unfortunately.

Going to be a testing next month or 2 (exactly same as last season when we lost VDV, Maddison, Romero, Son etc).

Apart from Solanke we barely improved our first team or squad at all this summer, now it’s coming back to bite us.

All that being said, Slot is showing exactly why he was my n.o1 pick (ofc he’s inherited a better squad but he’s just a better and more balanced manager).

Still love Ange but with this squad ans the issues we now have he’s going to struggle, especially if we don’t reinforce in January especially in attack and fast.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,427
59,047
It's such a shame that we have fans ready to come in here and attack Ange despite all the evidence sitting right in front of your faces.

We are probably going to suffer these next 2 months.

We need to be brave and insist that the only way Ange can have a chance of success is if he is allowed to build a squad of 18-20 players that can play exactly how he requires so that when we do hit these bad patches with injury, we have adequate rotation.

I fear that a poor run will have fans calling for his head. A new coach comes in (and sporting director) and we change direction again which means more player turnover and we come up against the same issues of lacking depth.
Yep our form issues are probably about 30% on Ange and 70% on our lack of squad depth and quality which isn’t on Ange.

We need to avoid the same cycle repeating itself and push past any tricky times and the club needs to properly back Ange this Jan and next summer, the evidence is there when he has a fit and firing squad we can beat anyone on our day but once we get a few injuries we struggle for consistency.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,427
59,047
The responsibility for this shitshow today was above Ange's pay grade.

Davies, Dragusin and Forster is a big step down from Romero, VDV and Vicario. It's just a bridge too far.
Not only that but our attack was fairly toothless as were our limited options off the bench
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,427
59,047
Because we had a tough game midweek for the likes of Gray. Cause we play Bournemouth on Thursday and Chelsea Sunday.

Can't just drop the youngsters in immediately.

Honestly Ange has a monumental job rotating and balancing the squad right now.

Give Bissouma a rest at the 6 and play Gray there. But what if he needs Gray at LB?

Rest Sarr? But then we don't have a midfielder who covers so much ground?

He rested Deki today and we struggled without him.

Rest Werner and Son? For who exactly?

Lankshear looked well off the level against Galatasaray.

Stop blaming the coach. Start pointing the finger in the right direction.
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,427
59,047
Are you suggesting had he brought on different subs, we'd have won?

I'm sorry but I disagree, we may have, but we didn't and you can't in all fairness say we'd have won if he'd made the changes you'd have liked to have seen, that's hugely in we don't know territory not to mention we have no idea of who needed to come off because of minutes/numbers, who was carrying a knock and all the other usual stuff.

We aren't privy to most of those things so saying it's 'on' Ange, for this, with so may unknowns doesn't seem right or fair to me.

All over SC i've seen people understanding that the squad is bare bones, that players are being played more than we'd like yet for some reason, when results reflect that, we all throw that aside and blame all sorts of things.

Ange has got a bastard of a balancing act on here.
Spot on 👏 wish more on here could see this is the case!
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,427
59,047
Meanwhile, super Unai hasn't won a game in the last 8, almost as if management is a tricky, unpredictable balancing act when you don't have the best players at your disposal.
Also they’re suffering from their squad depth not being anywhere near what it needs to be to sustain a high PL finish and CL football, same as us with strong EL matches and a stretched thin squad, same with Eddie Howe last season, even Pep this season without Rodri and a few CB’s is struggling.

If Liverpool lost VVD, Salah and one of their top CM’s their form would drop off too.

It’s just that any injuries effect us, Villa, Newcastle etc much more than City, Lpool,Arsenal, Chelsea, Man.U who pay higher wages and have larger deeper quality squads.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
25,006
93,948
We just have to cope until the players come back. December is a tough month to be without your first choice goalie, first choice defensive pair, centre mid, and now, maybe, having to rejig the front three.

Fulham H
Bournemouth A
Chelsea H
Rangers A
Southampton A
Man Utd H
Liverpool H
Forest A
Wolves H

I don't even know what to suggest Ange does differently - except something he repeatedly says he won't do.

What it does show is how desperately the matchday squad needs strengthening. It's cool and all having youngsters on the bench but with so many games, you need players capable of making an impact. Sadly I don't have very high hopes for the January window.
These season should have been about the youngsters getting significant minutes in the EL and League Cup and when we have injuries they get minutes.

But that should be alongside established players in key areas and not patching up areas on the pitch.

We were managing that in the early rounds of EL and against City in league Cup but we are now missing our established GK, CBs, 1 CM and any rotation in attack, which means the kids are coming on and having to be a bigger answer because our best players are already flagged at this point of the game or they are not coming into the team alongside a player who can really guide them.

Bergvall and Gray coming on at the same moment today should ideally be avoided as they both need time.

The objective should have been to get them closer to being starters by next season without the pressure.

We've also heaped even more pressure on Udogie (physically and mentally)

An additional attacker and LB would have given them that. Gray could have stuck solely to his RB/CM role.

An extra attacker would have meant we always had a serious threat on the pitch that Bergvall can seek as opposed to tired legs like we had today.

Another CM would have been ideal, although if it wasn't for Bentancur's stupidity we'd probably be okay in that department.
 

Misfit

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub
May 7, 2006
22,662
40,489
We just have to cope until the players come back. December is a tough month to be without your first choice goalie, first choice defensive pair, centre mid, and now, maybe, having to rejig the front three.

Fulham H
Bournemouth A
Chelsea H
Rangers A
Southampton A
Man Utd H
Liverpool H
Forest A
Wolves H

I don't even know what to suggest Ange does differently - except something he repeatedly says he won't do.

What it does show is how desperately the matchday squad needs strengthening. It's cool and all having youngsters on the bench but with so many games, you need players capable of making an impact. Sadly I don't have very high hopes for the January window.
That's the thing. I and some others said we'd take a downish year on the chin with relative grace considering the youth/for the future flavour of our summer window. Who really expects us to go out and round the squad out with 2/3 starters and another couple of experienced competition/depth signings this upcoming summer though?

We'll likely spend it struggling to hold on to one or two of our better players and hoping a 19 year old already on the books will magically be able to seamlessly replace them.
 

jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
4,219
6,622
A surprise against Fulham would've been a win. Beating City doesn't change mentality issues overnight, but it should start to instill some belief in the players. It won't be long before we're at about half the points total Liverpool are on, and it is depressing (every season) to be half the team that the challengers for the main prizes are. After that it's fairly bunched up and the frustration there is a that a short run of wins puts you at the top of that bunch. But we can't seem to beat run-of-the-mill teams. We certainly can't string wins together.

The danger ahead for Ange - and he said it himself recently - is that our points total falls well short of the perceived progress the team is making. The question is whether our perception of progress is accurate, or if we're inflating it too much.

The quantitative fact of the season so far is that we are no better than Brentford. Albeit they're a godd watch and having a decent season. Ange pretty much said that if we're still languishing around 8th, 9th, 10th in mid January, that's not gonna be a good look for him/us. But injuries take a toll etc and so forth.

I still reckon for this season to stand out in a good way from most of the recent dross relies on good cup runs. I reckon Ange is aware of this.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,427
59,047
Bring him on half time

It's funny it's always Tottenham that need a bigger squad, yet no one batted an eyelid when Mainoo who wasn't ready for united and then became their best player despite having amrabat.

Also we have Bergvall who is less ready than Spence but is in the europa squad for lols

WE ARENT WINNING TITLES. Play these kids in some of these fixtures to get them ready for next year FFS
If we play these kids more regularly when they’re not ready for that level of match yet, we will lose more games, would rather than and we sink to bottom half of the table?
 

rabbikeane

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2005
7,933
15,416
Everything points towards a disastrous month. Csn see a trashing from Chelsea, League cup exit, even Europa progression doubt. This will be a testing December which will turn a lot of people against the manager.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,427
59,047
Everything points towards a disastrous month. Csn see a trashing from Chelsea, League cup exit, even Europa progression doubt. This will be a testing December which will turn a lot of people against the manager.
1) That’s quite a negative take and let’s hope all 3 of those things don’t happen

2) If some or all 3 of them do happen, let’s hope most the fans DONT turn against the Manager as our squad is down to bare bones and most players are running on fumes.

We all know our problems always run deeper and higher than the Manager.

Let’s stick behind Ange no matter what the next few months.

I also hope we can get Romero and Richy back and we can scrape a win in the Carabao cup and survive this tricky period until Richy,Odobert,VDV,Bentancur are back/available again and I also hope to goodness we sign someone early on in January to help Ange.
 

Mattspurs1982

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2011
3,320
8,093
Let's ignore not signing Gallagher, Eze or Neto in favour of loads of not ready for the first team teenagers
Ange can’t be that naive, levy has not consistently delivered for previous managers, so was Ange really expecting levy to spend £60m+ on these 3 players plus wages?! He must have sanctioned all the outgoings. Plus it’s been known Richarlison can’t stay fit for 5 mins - yet Veliz is allowed to go out on loan?!

Can’t believe I’m saying it but we could have kept Hoijberg and Peresic around for another year instead of being down to the bare bones.

just seems like poor squad mgmt. to me
 

dude573

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
1,773
5,549
Ange is in a tough situation with injuries but his subs were very poor yesterday. Werner was our most dangerous player and should no way of been subbed when he was. Equally Maddison looked better when Deki was introduced and should have stayed on. Porro has been run into the ground, so you’d think Spence would have least got 5 minutes to try and change something.
 
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