Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[thebenjamin]

Spence in particular in the league needs to give Pedro a rest for a game or two I think.

Agree. Porro has been quite poor recently in my opinion. Great goal at city and obviously a technically excellent player, but his positioning defensively is really bad. He's decent in 1v1 but in terms of being in the right place he's the glaring weakness and the space in behind him is the first area every team we play against targets.

 

[mil1lion]

Could probably unregister Odebert and Bergvall for Europe tbh. Possibly Richy as well depending how bad his injury is.

I don't think that will happen. It wouldn't be great for morale to drop a player. Unless they're out really long term. I think Odobert maybe until March which is when the round of 16 starts. Richarlison I doubt is that long term. Bergvall needs opportunities and hasn't done bad at all so would be a bad message for him.

 

[cliff jones]

That’s a good point, a back 3 does seem to fair well against our set-up.

Howe’s 5-4-1, Ipswich’s back 3, Palace had a back 3, I’m sure there are more examples?

If think it’s because teams can ping 50yard quick diagonal switches of play and have a 2vs1 against our exposed full backs and cross into a lot of space.

Certainly something we need to look at, although if we’d kept the ball better that would’ve also helped.

This. Our wide men are shit at tracking back. Although in my imagination at least BJ has done a bit better lately. Maybe Ange tells,them to stay high. Dunno.

I don't think Saka and Martinelli are any better though, for example.

But they look more,solid than we do- is Rice the difference, or are their CBs better?

 

[C1w8]

I agree regarding the result last night & the overall picture.

I can also understand the frustration from some people, due to our recent inconsistency in the league, which is still fresh in their mind.

Let’s hope for some consistency in the PL, so not every result outside of it, gets highlighted even more.

The team came out to play yesterday, this wasn't one of those dire no-shows against inferior opposition.

Roma are a decent side on that showing despite their recent form, and then throw in Gray at LB to make it 4/5 of our defensive unit being backups, i'm not sure we'd have played a game yet with that defensive lineup so it was always going to be tricky.

It wasn't perfect, but it was a million miles away from ipswich/palace/brighton 2nd half, this wasnt inconcistency in performance given the context, and our fans should be able to pick up on this rather than get frustrated.

Fulham will be tough, but again it wont just be because we have consistency issues - we ourselves have always struggled with short turn arounds over the years after european games, and its something that all teams suffer from to a degree, the very best teams are much more capable of handling it but we arent one of those right now. Still hopeful we can get over the line with the win on Sunday though.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

We need Lange to adjust the “algorithm” for scouting by upping the numbers with leadership and aggression. Find one or two experienced players who can take our young squad by the scruff of the neck and force them to keep their levels consistent.

Kulusevski alluded to as much during the international break, some players tend to coast after 45 mins or if we are in the lead.

A nice Keane double kick to the face can fix a lot of our problems.

That being said, I genuinely don’t understand the outrage for Ange’s post match interview. He’s basically just said what he’s always said since he took charge, he wants us to be an entertaining football team to watch. He did NOT say he doesn’t want us to win, or that he prioritises that over a result. He merely doubled down on us not compromising our system or tactics to become another low block save the game type of team we were under Conte. I thought everyone in here hated pragmatism? I thought we had become so boring to watch? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

There will be ups and downs with Ange’s system but he’s made very good tactical tweaks over the course of this season and I’m excited to see how much more we develop for the rest of it.

 

[Monkey boy]

We need Lange to adjust the “algorithm” for scouting by upping the numbers with leadership and aggression. Find one or two experienced players who can take our young squad by the scruff of the neck and force them to keep their levels consistent.

Kulusevski alluded to as much during the international break, some players tend to coast after 45 mins or if we are in the lead.

A nice Keane double kick to the face can fix a lot of our problems.

That being said, I genuinely don’t understand the outrage for Ange’s post match interview. He’s basically just said what he’s always said since he took charge, he wants us to be an entertaining football team to watch. He did NOT say he doesn’t want us to win, or that he prioritises that over a result. He merely doubled down on us not compromising our system or tactics to become another low block save the game type of team we were under Conte. I thought everyone in here hated pragmatism? I thought we had become so boring to watch? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

There will be ups and downs with Ange’s system but he’s made very good tactical tweaks over the course of this season and I’m excited to see how much more we develop for the rest of it.

Its different being pragmatic when 2-1 up with 10 minutes to go than being pragmatic from the off against Burnley. Also my personal opinion is that id like to see us use the so called dark arts that other clubs regularly do. Go down and fake an injury, take a little longer over a goal kick, start a row with one of their players, take an age to make a sub. Little bits to just take the momentum out of the opposition and give us a chance to regroup. Its the blueprint that every team uses to beat us so why not do it ourselves. If it means we walk away with a win i couldnt care less.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

I said we would regret letting Hojbjerg go. We miss his experience and the way he could steady the team for the last quarter or so of the game.

This is what squad building looks like, it's painful at times. The role Hojbjerg played is one of the most sought after in Europe. He needed to go, we replaced him with a teen who has the potential to be one of the best. Personally I think it's better going through a bit of pain, than getting in an experienced player with a lower ceiling but that's just my onions. The time we're investing in Gray now will pay bigger dividends

 

[Monkey boy]

I said we would regret letting Hojbjerg go. We miss his experience and the way he could steady the team for the last quarter or so of the game.

Not to dig you out but I feel like there is a lot of rewriting of history when it comes to certain things and especially what ex players did or didnt do. The way that PEH is remembered you'd swear we didnt regularly chuck away numerous games and points over his time here when infact the opposite is actually true. He needed to go as he wasnt good enough, same as Sanchez, same as Emerson, same as Winks.

 

[C1w8]

I said we would regret letting Hojbjerg go. We miss his experience and the way he could steady the team for the last quarter or so of the game.

PEH at 28 was never going to stick around to fulfil that role for much longer (fair play to him that he wanted to actually play week in week out as you'd question that with a lot of players these days), and he would've been a free agent next summer so we did well to sell when we did.

Also I dont believe we've conceded a late equaliser much if at all this season, yesterday may be the first one. I'm not even sure we've conceded a late winner to any teams this season either - not that i'd want PEH to be coming on and trying to play out time in that instance, i'd want us to try and win.

More than anything else i think you're suggesting a (some what dubious) solution to a problem we don't even have.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

I don't think that will happen. It wouldn't be great for morale to drop a player. Unless they're out really long term. I think Odobert maybe until March which is when the round of 16 starts. Richarlison I doubt is that long term. Bergvall needs opportunities and hasn't done bad at all so would be a bad message for him.

I wouldn't be so sure. Ange mentioned that Odebert might be out for the majority of the season and even if he gets back around March they may be extra carful with his game time. Essentially they may just want to ease him back so he's ready for next season. As for Bergvall, it really depends on how much priority Ange puts on winning the EL. Once the knock outs starts I wouldn't be surprised if he starts picking stronger teams more regularly and experiments with youth less. If that's the case he may well make some changes that allow him to be as competitive as possible. As for morale, well he dropped Spence who is more experienced and likely would have probably been a more useful player so I don't see why it would be an issue if a youth player whois still very raw was swapped out. If it was someone like Biss or Bentancur then sure but that wouldn't happen. Richy I agree probably stays in if he is expected to be fit enough to contribute although you never know.

 

[SpursSince1980]

2 goals conceded from set pieces yet again. He needs to get a handle on this

Seriously? How many goals have we conceded from set pieces this season? It’s an absolute fallacy. The second goal was not due to a set piece. Yes, it came after one. But that was all on Bergvall heading the ball without thinking and putting his team in danger. It was the mistake of a kid still learning. Their first was a fluke. It hit the guy’s back shoulder blade, took a weird spin and looped over the goalie. 99 times out of 100 it goes over the bar or off to the side.

Sorry, but I hate it when chips are down, this is when the doubters come into their own and will cling onto a weak arguments. We have proved over and again this season that set pieces are not the problem some seem to believe.

Mistakes, both mentally and physically have been our biggest issue all season. It was on full display again last night. If our boys had been 10% more locked in, we don’t miss sitters and nor do we keep giving the ball away in dumb areas.

Plus, we are without our starting CBs. Ange is doing his best with what he has. If there are folks who think a different manager is the solution to managing systemic inconsistency and yet another injury crisis, fair enough. But using the ‘ol ‘we suck at set pieces’ argument as a justification doesn’t hold water, when looking at all of the goals we have conceded this season.

Some basic facts: We have conceded 13 so far in the PL, which is joint third best. Of which four can be attributed to set pieces. IF you think this is an undermining, prevalent issue the manager and coaching staff refuse to address adequately, then you aren’t looking at the basic data, which tells a much different story. Are we perfect? No. Are we adequate? Very much so.

 

[mil1lion]

Seriously? How many goals have we conceded from set pieces this season? It’s an absolute fallacy. The second goal was not due to a set piece. Yes, it came after one. But that was all on Bergvall heading the ball without thinking and putting his team in danger. It was the mistake of a kid still learning. Their first was a fluke. It hit the guy’s back shoulder blade, took a weird spin and looped over the goalie. 99 times out of 100 it goes over the bar or off to the side.

Sorry, but I hate it when chips are down, this is when the doubters come into their own and will cling onto a weak arguments. We have proved over and again this season that set pieces are not the problem some seem to believe.

Mistakes, both mentally and physically have been our biggest issue all season. It was on full display again last night. If our boys had been 10% more locked in, we don’t miss sitters and nor do we keep giving the ball in dumb areas.

Plus, we are without our starting CBs. Ange is doing his best with what he has. If there are folks who think a different manager is the solution to managing systemic inconsistency and yet another injury crisis, fair enough. But using the ‘ol ‘we suck at set pieces’ argument as a justification doesn’t hold water, when looking at all of the goals we have conceded this season.

Some basic facts: We have conceded 13 so far in the PL, which is joint third best. Of which four can be attributed to set pieces. IF you think this is an undermining, prevalent issue the manager and coaching staff refuse to address adequately, then you aren’t looking at the basic data, which tells a much different story. Are we perfect? No. Are we adequate? Very much so.

I think that's incredibly harsh on Bergvall there. He was at full stretch to get his head on the ball. Nothing he did wrong at all as didnt have any way to direct it. It's then up to us to have someone edge of the box to close down and also I would say Bissouma needs to be quicker out from there so their attackers are offside.

Totally agree with the general point though. It seems like largely media driven about our set pieces conceded. It's just lazy analysis which basically has carried from last season when we had a spell of conceding from them.

 

[Donki]

This. Our wide men are shit at tracking back. Although in my imagination at least BJ has done a bit better lately. Maybe Ange tells,them to stay high. Dunno.

I don't think Saka and Martinelli are any better though, for example.

But they look more,solid than we do- is Rice the difference, or are their CBs better?

Rice is the difference, we don’t have any player with his capability, well no that’s it right we do, Ange for what ever reason doesn't reply them that way. U want to rampant full backs you need a guy to sit deeper and cover for them. Ange doesnt seem to wanna do that for some reason. Sarr ans bid have the engine to do it though, but not utimately holding players. Last truely holding players we have had were Sandro and Palaciois, how many years ago was that?

 

[Danny1]

Rice is the difference, we don’t have any player with his capability, well no that’s it right we do, Ange for what ever reason doesn't reply them that way. U want to rampant full backs you need a guy to sit deeper and cover for them. Ange doesnt seem to wanna do that for some reason. Sarr ans bid have the engine to do it though, but not utimately holding players. Last truely holding players we have had were Sandro and Palaciois, how many years ago was that?

I think ultimately the main difference is that Arsenal play with a back 4 that have all played CB and don’t really get involved going forward and a holding midfielder that also played CB who doesn’t really get forward.

As clearly shown in the last month, Odegaard is everything to that team, without him they are quite honestly bang average.

Inter Milan - loss
Newcastle - loss
Liverpool - draw
Bournemouth - loss

Everything goes through him. Without him they just don’t tick.

 

[McFlash]

It is and it isn’t.

1) Yes the players are being run into the ground and can’t repeat the energy levels we saw against City every 3 days

2) However, Ange’s interview about the priority being entertainment is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve heard a manager say.

His constant stubbornness will be his downfall if he really meant that being entertaining ahead of picking up results is his priority.

I agree with your post underneath this one but I don't agree with the second half of this one at all.
It's the Spurs way and has been since Bill Nic and if you don't like that sort of thing, you're supporting the wrong club.

It's about going out there and winning in style, not about boring the opposition (and fans) to death.
That's supposed to be the DNA of this club.
Of course he didn't mean that he's happy to entertain and lose but football should be enjoyable for the fans, it's our escape from life and Ange seems very big on that sort of thing.

Personally, I enjoyed yesterday's game and a draw isn't a bad result in the grand scheme of things.

 

[McFlash]

I think that's incredibly harsh on Bergvall there. He was at full stretch to get his head on the ball. Nothing he did wrong at all as didnt have any way to direct it. It's then up to us to have someone edge of the box to close down and also I would say Bissouma needs to be quicker out from there so their attackers are offside.

Totally agree with the general point though. It seems like largely media driven about our set pieces conceded. It's just lazy analysis which basically has carried from last season when we had a spell of conceding from them.

Yeah, I agree with this.
For me at least, one thing that stood out last night was Bergvall's ability to get his head on the ball when defending set pieces.
He came on and made a difference in that aspect, the goal was just unlucky and no blame is on him.

 

[SpursSince1980]

Yeah, I agree with this.
For me at least, one thing that stood out last night was Bergvall's ability to get his head on the ball when defending set pieces.
He came on and made a difference in that aspect, the goal was just unlucky and no blame is on him.

A teeny tiny bit of blame?
Just kidding.

Nah. You guys are right, I am being harsh. (But it certainly felt influenced by the ‘Davinson Sanchez School of Clearance Headers Back to the Opposition’!!!)

 

[mil1lion]

Rice is the difference, we don’t have any player with his capability, well no that’s it right we do, Ange for what ever reason doesn't reply them that way. U want to rampant full backs you need a guy to sit deeper and cover for them. Ange doesnt seem to wanna do that for some reason. Sarr ans bid have the engine to do it though, but not utimately holding players. Last truely holding players we have had were Sandro and Palaciois, how many years ago was that?

Isn't that how they play Rice though? I'm sure he doesn't just sit in front. They usually play Partey or Jorginho in that regista role. I think there are times where Sarr does a great job cutting out danger and others where he doesn't track runs quickly enough. A lot is down to experience though. I'd seriously look at getting another more experienced player in that role for him to learn from.

 

[McFlash]

A teeny tiny bit of blame?
Just kidding.

Nah. You guys are right, I am being harsh. (But it certainly felt influenced by the ‘Davinson Sanchez School of Clearance Headers Back to the Opposition’!!!)

Yeah, he'd got his head on the set piece just before that one and when he got his head on that one I was like "nice...oh".

It wasn't something I was expecting from him but defensive headers, with us especially, could be a big help.

 

[Finchyid]

Thought Son was poor. Both in attack and defence.

That shot where it’s still coming down was shocking