Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[wiggo24]

I'm sort of not bothered whether he stays or goes now personally, but I don't really get why people are using the fact we can on occasion blow teams away as some sort of real indication that Ange's tactics can work.

In my mind, the best managers are those who are able to coach a team to be balanced - Klopp's Liverpool were ruthless in attack but had a really solid defensive base and midfield. Pep's City, at their best, sacrifice free-flowing football for maintain a shape that makes them really difficult to counter whilst still scoring enough goals to comfortably see off games. Conte, at most clubs, might prioritize defensive rigidity, but his teams usually still manage to score enough goals to win titles.

I don't think being really good at attacking is the sign of a particularly promising coach - it's really not that hard to occasionally play lovely football if you coach a team to commit 8 men forward and leave only the 2 CBs in your own half (which we genuinely do). I'll get on board with the project if we can reduce those numbers to, say, having 6 men in front of the ball in build-up, but still managing to score a similar number of goals. Without that we're going to continue to be fundamentally flawed on the defensive side of the game, and we'll never achieve consistency.

 

[mil1lion]

One of the best in the opposition half, one of the worst in our own half

 

[sidford]

 

[McFlash]

There wasn't a single player in the Summer I was unhappy with. I wasn't sure about Solanke but he's without question the one I am most convinced by now.

This is exactly it, I really liked the business we did in the summer and I'm not unhappy about anyone we brought in, I'm sure Ange is the same.

BUT, and it's a big BUT, we don't do enough to strengthen for the here and now.
We all said that we needed at least one or two more for the first team.

That's why I get pissed off when people say "well, we have backed Ange", "we've spent X amount since he's been here", or "Ange said he's happy with the signings", because it's disingenuous.

Of course he's happy with the signings, they are all good players.
Is it enough for him to improve upon last year? Probably not.
It may be eventually but that's no good if people are expecting instant results.

 

[RuskyM]

'Just need to be patient' ...he says after 0 trophies in 16 years

Aye, but it’s not really fair to lay that at Ange’s feet. That’s the conundrum. I think it’s exactly what we should do given how disastrous the Mou/Conte appointments were, but it’s a tough sell to a fanbase that’s already bought into quite a few false dawns.

 

[okc1992]

I'm sort of not bothered whether he stays or goes now personally, but I don't really get why people are using the fact we can on occasion blow teams away as some sort of real indication that Ange's tactics can work.

In my mind, the best managers are those who are able to coach a team to be balanced - Klopp's Liverpool were ruthless in attack but had a really solid defensive base and midfield. Pep's City, at their best, sacrifice free-flowing football for maintain a shape that makes them really difficult to counter whilst still scoring enough goals to comfortably see off games. Conte, at most clubs, might prioritize defensive rigidity, but his teams usually still manage to score enough goals to win titles.

I don't think being really good at attacking is the sign of a particularly promising coach - it's really not that hard to occasionally play lovely football if you coach a team to commit 8 men forward and leave only the 2 CBs in your own half (which we genuinely do). I'll get on board with the project if we can reduce those numbers to, say, having 6 men in front of the ball in build-up, but still managing to score a similar number of goals. Without that we're going to continue to be fundamentally flawed on the defensive side of the game, and we'll never achieve consistency.

It's not on occasion though that we blow teams out. All the games we have won in the league have been by more then 2 goals. It's winning games or picking up points when we're not playing at our best that is the issue.

Were Klopp's Liverpool really that balanced or was it that VVD and Alisson came in and transformed them defensively. How many times did we see VVD single handily stop counters. The fullbacks were always really advanced and the midfield worked hard to cover.

The majority of the goals we have conceded this season weren't a result of pushing too many men forward and getting caught on the counter. The problem has been our rest defence and players ball watching and not communicating

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Thanks for the above on Werner, Ange has said it so many times in interviews he only sanctions bringing in players that he wants.

Exactly this. He emphasises every time that he is strong on the fact every player who comes into the club is his responsibility.

He also explicitly said that he chose to focus on signing youth players as he feels they provide a good backbone for sustainable growth.

There is a lot of projecting going on in this thread and ignoring what the manager has said just because it doesn’t fit your agenda. I’m not surprised though.

 

[Krafty]

When we are dictating things we can blow teams away, however we can very easily and very quickly give up the momentum and it doesn’t look right now that we are serious enough about our defensive game.

Yes, first thought should be how do we capitalise, with or without the ball, but once we give up the the ball or our press is beaten, we don’t seem to have a concrete idea nor desire to get back into shape, and force the opponent into a situation we can look to exploit (either force them to take a low percentage option and give up the ball, or give them a throw in where we can then press them in a small area and break on them).

At some point Ange has to sort that out - I have faith he can, but I’m not 100% he will. With just a little sharpening up when we lose the ball and when we are defending in our box we will stop conceding so many. With the quality in the side we can always get a goal, and we will always have that overdrive to blow teams away - we just wouldn’t need it every flipping game

 

[greaves]

When we are dictating things we can blow teams away, however we can very easily and very quickly give up the momentum and it doesn’t look right now that we are serious enough about our defensive game.

Yes, first thought should be how do we capitalise, with or without the ball, but once we give up the the ball or our press is beaten, we don’t seem to have a concrete idea nor desire to get back into shape, and force the opponent into a situation we can look to exploit (either force them to take a low percentage option and give up the ball, or give them a throw in where we can then press them in a small area and break on them).

At some point Ange has to sort that out - I have faith he can, but I’m not 100% he will. With just a little sharpening up when we lose the ball and when we are defending in our box we will stop conceding so many. With the quality in the side we can always get a goal, and we will always have that overdrive to blow teams away - we just wouldn’t need it every flipping game

I think because the style of play needs energy and fitness, we have to rotate more and we do not yet have a high enough quality squad to make effective changes. Post-travel drop off from European away games is very clear. Captaincy/leadership is also absent. It’s just a matter of time to find new players, some of whom really need to be ready made. I hope Ange is given time. And backed.

 

[Mark_147]

I think because the style of play needs energy and fitness, we have to rotate more and we do not yet have a high enough quality squad to make effective changes. Post-travel drop off from European away games is very clear. Captaincy/leadership is also absent. It’s just a matter of time to find new players, some of whom really need to be ready made. I hope Ange is given time. And backed.

Do you expect Levy to invest in this high quality squad which will enable Ange to rotate accordingly?

 

[Reprobate]

Do you expect Levy to invest in this high quality squad which will enable Ange to rotate accordingly?

I don't, but I do think the current squad contains several players who could develop into a unit capable of delivering Ange's vision, at which point we'd continue to sign younger, raw players and integrate them into that setup.

A lot of 'ifs' though admittedly.

 

[greaves]

Do you expect Levy to invest in this high quality squad which will enable Ange to rotate accordingly?

Million dollar question. Or less, as it’s Levy

 

[SpursForever71]

Of course that's not ideal method, but only here at SC there are 18 pages written that mentions "Levy" in any context since start of yesterdays game. 18 pages before that? It's basically a whole month since 14th Oct to 9th Nov. And guess what, most active days during that period happens to be 27th and 28th October, what a complete coincidence that it's two days after another loss against Crystal Palace!


Why people weren't moaning that we didn't sign Pedro Neto after City or Aston Villa game, but are moaning today? Why people weren't moaning about Levy after City or Aston Villa, but are moaning today? Why people weren't moaning about Levy in 21/22 season, but were moaning in 22/23?
Levy gave the same platform and squad for Ange to work this week as last week, last month etc. He works exactly the same way this year as last year, 5 years ago or 20 years ago.


It's LevyOut movement that sees bad result and is becoming active again - just to then moan about seeing bigger picture.

I mean we can all see whats going on even if we win or lose. Supporting the club as long as i have (pre SC as was before the internet lol) If we win it just takes our mind off it. Am not balls in on Ange like A&C, but every manager has his own fate, depending on players he gets from Levy.

 

[SpursForever71]

Mate we still have scored more goals than anyone else in the league though.

Defensively is where we need big improvment. Yes the system exposes us, but there's still room for improvement.

Id be looking at selling Romero and bringing in someone like Guehi to partner VDV

This is it for me. Going forward great, defensively shit (and thats being kind). Anges tenure at the club will be about how he and his coaches can improve on this side of the game. And i am not just talking defenders, it should be we attack as a team and defend as a team.

 

[greaves]

I started following the club 2 years after the invention of fire. I have seen it all. Things you people wouldn’t believe. Wingers on fire in 61. Strikers like Greaves glitter in the dark at Stamford Bridge.
I am weary of hope but it will not let me rest.

 

[Pistols At Dawn]

I started following the club 2 years after the invention of fire. I have seen it all. Things you people wouldn’t believe. Wingers on fire in 61. Strikers like Greaves glitter in the dark at Stamford Bridge.
I am weary of hope but it will not let me rest.

like tears in rain, mate

 

[makeveli]

Maybe just maybe if you stop playing such a higher line we won’t lose so many games and let in stupid goals , that’s all he needs to do otherwise his bloody doing fine , if he can’t adjust that then his gonna get himself sacked !!

 

[hamsup_sotong]

Maybe just maybe if you stop playing such a higher line we won’t lose so many games and let in stupid goals , that’s all he needs to do otherwise his bloody doing fine , if he can’t adjust that then his gonna get himself sacked !!

don't think we've lost many goals due to the high line..
its more defensive mistakes during the transition when we lose the ball that cause it

 

[midoshairband]

This is it for me. Going forward great, defensively shit (and thats being kind). Anges tenure at the club will be about how he and his coaches can improve on this side of the game. And i am not just talking defenders, it should be we attack as a team and defend as a team.

I watch how that lot down the road bust their asses to get back into shape and defend, and it's poles apart. they really defend as a team. you can argue it's at the expense of some attacking flair, but the commitment from every single player to turn and get back when they're broken on, is something else.

doesn't feel to me like we have that commitment (vdV apart).

 

[Styopa]

I watch how that lot down the road bust their asses to get back into shape and defend, and it's poles apart. they really defend as a team. you can argue it's at the expense of some attacking flair, but the commitment from every single player to turn and get back when they're broken on, is something else.

doesn't feel to me like we have that commitment (vdV apart).

Yet at the same time, we have conceded just one goal more than Arsenal in the league this season. We have conceded fewer goals than most teams in the league, in fact- 13 in 11 matches. Only Liverpool (6), Forest (10), Newcastle (11), Arsenal (12) and Man U (12) have conceded fewer. We also have the second-best goal difference in the league +10.

I'm not sure it's a commitment thing, but I'm not convinced it's predominantly a structural thing either. I think if we dropped deeper we might concede fewer goals, but as the stats show we're not conceding that many goals right now.

To me, it feels like we've made a lot of individual mistakes this season and given away some cheap goals. I think this partly comes down to having a core of experienced players who are fairly inconsistent—like Vicario, Bissouma, Bentancur, and more recently, Romero—alongside many young, inexperienced players. The balance seems a bit off to me, but it's what I expected after the summer's transfer window.