Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[fishhhandaricecake]

Romero (though i get frustrated when he stands on the ball for ages) plays progressive passes that Dragusin wouldnt dare to even try, i dont think either have covered themselves in glory defensively in this system so i'll call that a draw. We've seen the youngsters do things in flashes but none of them have done enough to suggest with any certainty that they would upgrade the starting eleven. No way should Bergvall be considered a prem starter anytime soon based on what he's shown so far, not trying to knock the kid, but you've got him as an option alongside Sarr as a potential starter, that's not even close to a competition right now.

At best that team performs at the same level as our starters, and more than likely it performs worse imo.

The teams ceiling right now is very high when it's humming, the floor is very low when it's not, and thats what we need to solve. Throwing in the youngsters/backups we've got doesnt remedy the latter imo, it wont make us more consistent.

Totally agree, Ange is managing the squad fine it’s just the defending we need to sort out, if we did that we’d become more consistent as we wouldn’t keep going behind in most games.

 

[wayneg]

Moore / Bergvall and Gray are not as good as Udogie, Son and our current midfield 3.

I didn't say to drop udogie - he was in my team - I had moore/Odobert over son - which on current form I don't think there would be a drop off? I also hadnt beegval starting - I had gray ahead of biss/bent which again I think if gray started ahead of either there would be no difference in performance.

 

[djhotspur]

I didn't say to drop udogie - he was in my team - I had moore/Odobert over son - which on current form I don't think there would be a drop off? I also hadnt beegval starting - I had gray ahead of biss/bent which again I think if gray started ahead of either there would be no difference in performance.

Current form? Odebert is injured and has been most of the season so far and moore started one game in the prem and looked like a kid against men which he is. Yes Son was poor, but he's had other very good games, he's also had injury problems.
Gray starting? The kid has played zero minutes for us at 6, so what are you basing it on? Benta has had some good games too and he definitely wasn't the problem against Ipswich.

 

[eddiebailey]

Are you telling me gray wouldn't be as good if not better than Biss or Bent? Drag on the right side would not weaken the side based on Romero performance this season and again Moore/Odobert couldn't do any worse than Son currently, the rest of the team is exactly how it is now.

On what basis do you think Gray would instantly be better than Bissouma and Bentancur? Both of those players have on occasion been exceptional for us, whereas Gray has yet to start a game at this level in that position.

I am not over impressed with Romero this season, but Dragusin has been pony on his last couple of outings.

I am not sure this system gets the best out of Son, but I would sooner start a multiple times Asian footballer of year than a couple of teenagers, both of whom have been unavailable for recent losses in any case.

 

[spark7586]

I’ll preface by saying I’m not Ange out, but 22p out of the last 54 is not a good look on a manger of a team with European ambitions. That means there are problems on the pitch and that is on the players and the manager to fix. It’s too easy, I feel, to blame Levy for not giving him the tools, looking at the wealth of talent that is there it might not be enough to push for titles, but it has to be enough to be more successful than 22p from 54p. In the same period, Sean Dyche at Everton has managed 23p from 54, and they’re bottom half with a considerably different set of circumstances around them.

What throws me, like everyone else, is that every few games we will have a performance like the second half vs Villa and I come away thinking, okay we just need it to click, and when it does, boy we are going to fly… but those moments are beginning to feel like a problem rather than a beacon of hope.

The thing for me is we need to get off the merry-go-round… we have to break the cycle of dumping managers ever 12-18 months and double down in supporting one, that one, because he’s incumbent, has to be Ange because the alternative is another manager with a different plan needing different players needing more time needing something they aren’t going to get. Personally, I don’t think Ange is the man, because like Conte and other idealists he feels too intractable, and his system seems destined to fail because of the arrogance of the man and instead of realizing that in the Premier League every team has international level players capable of punishing you and exploiting your weaknesses arguing that there is an arrogance about the PL…

What we are doing, it feels like, is reverting to that late 80s early 90s Spurs who could beat anyone on their day, rather than can beat anyone it’s about ‘our day’ and we are becoming that cup team we used to be. That, actually, for a little while, wouldn’t be so bad if it brought the desired result of that first trophy in years.

But I can’t help wonder how a manager who is a little more reserved, like Slott, might work with these players, just a little less gung ho, a little more patient, with some protection to the defence, maybe looking to play a CM/DM pivot partnership where, when we attack one goes forward and one holds to protect the back line, like Makalele used to… vs the all out attack… because the manager, the coaching and the tactics have to shoulder some of the burden of being worse than Everton since April…

We should’ve gone for Slot instead of the cheap option.

 

[spark7586]

Totally agree, Ange is managing the squad fine it’s just the defending we need to sort out, if we did that we’d become more consistent as we wouldn’t keep going behind in most games.

Ange can’t be managing the squad fine if he can’t improve our defending. It’s pure negligence as it’s been happening for so long now.

 

[The Scarecrow]

We should’ve gone for Slot instead of the cheap option.

I don't think there's enough evidence to support that conclusion yet. Slot has hit the ground running, but Ange did the same last year.

Not least, there are many examples of managers who take over and improve an already well drilled team, but falter after a year or so.

 

[wayneg]

On what basis do you think Gray would instantly be better than Bissouma and Bentancur? Both of those players have on occasion been exceptional for us, whereas Gray has yet to start a game at this level in that position.

I am not over impressed with Romero this season, but Dragusin has been pony on his last couple of outings.

I am not sure this system gets the best out of Son, but I would sooner start a multiple times Asian footballer of year than a couple of teenagers, both of whom have been unavailable for recent losses in any case.

I don't think anyone is getting what I'm saying, whilst I don't necessarily agree that gray etc are better than what we have their ceiling is much higher, I would match rather have them start and develop rather than some of the current 11 on form.

I actually think they would possess more energy and show some passion that evidently missing.

 

[isaac94]

Zinchenko was excellent for them in his first season but then they upgraded.

Couldn't of been that good if they upgraded. No one believes Zinchenko is better than Perisic

 

[Gb160]

My gooner pal summed it up.

When Conte beat ARteta to 4th, that should've been the big change. Give Conte what he wants. But we gave him Spence, Lenglet etc.

Arteta got given 2 prem league winners in Jesus & Zinchenko. And in January he got another proven winner in Jorginho & then Trossard...

That's what a club who is aiming for the title would do. Levy doesn't want that, he aims for 4th.

 

[ReadieSpur]

The funny thing is, its only really spurs fans on forums that don't believe our managers are getting backed. they follow every transfer saga, furiously refreshing and work themselves into a frenzy as to why we haven't signed Eze, Oshimen or alike. Most, if not all clubs out there are linked with players they dont get. Over the last few years we have spent a ton of money. I get pelters from fans of other clubs for our lack of success Vs. money spent.

Its clear to me that we've changed direction with the new recruitment team and are now targeting future talent with a view to peaking in a few years. we need to be patient and not just resort to the usual "tight Levy" Trope. Our recent spending is right up there.

 

[1971 Spur]

Mate we still have scored more goals than anyone else in the league though.

Defensively is where we need big improvment. Yes the system exposes us, but there's still room for improvement.

Id be looking at selling Romero and bringing in someone like Guehi to partner VDV

Yes, but the system that has us scoring these goals is the same one that exposes us. Two sides of the very same coin.

We're either a poor side that raise our game for the likes of City/Villa or a good side who can't get up for Palace/Ipswich.

I know a lot of people are blaming European games but we beat City midweek (with a good defensive performance after we went two up, limiting City to very few chances and even kicking it long rather than playing out from the back ad infinitum, ad nauseum) then turned around and smashed Villa a few days later. Not only that, but the team that played AZ had 8/9 changes from the team that hammered West Ham and then 8/9 changes again for the team that lost to Palace.

Personally, I think it's a leadership issue. Perhaps some players think that we're better than we are and their mentality is a few % off when it comes to the perceived lesser teams. I think this is borne out by our record of winning more points than anyone else from losing positions. Ange sends them out to do a job and it's not until he gets back among them during half time that they show a different mentality after the break. The only problem is that there's only so many times you can go to that well.

Our players need to motivate themselves rather than expect the manager do it for them. Leaders on the pitch are sorely lacking. Son has a reputation as one of the nicest people in football but I don't see him as a motivator. I don't see him as a leader who can lift the troops during battle. Same with Maddison.

Cuti seems to be off, in whatever sense of the word that may be.

You need to approach every game the same no matter who the opposition. They're just another team who stand in the way of where we should want to be.

 

[C1w8]

I don't think anyone is getting what I'm saying, whilst I don't necessarily agree that gray etc are better than what we have their ceiling is much higher, I would match rather have them start and develop rather than some of the current 11 on form.

I actually think they would possess more energy and show some passion that evidently missing.

The ceiling as a team right now is the emphatic victories we've had over united, over villa, over west ham. City in the carabao in a different way to the others.

There is nothing to suggest putting Gray in midfield over bents/biss whove both had good seasons so far, putting dragusin in over romero, odebert/moore over Son, would push that ceiling higher. There is also nothing to suggest itd make us more consistent - throwing in more youth i would think makes things less consistent, not more.

If its a case of wanting to roll the dice hoping to hit double sixes thats one thing, but to think an improvement is likely, or that theres not a reasonable chance performances get worse, is way overvalueing our backups.

Wanting the manager to risk his job (results are already iffy) at this stage to develop the youngsters, sacrificing short term results, is also unrealistic.

 

[ReadieSpur]

My gooner pal summed it up.

When Conte beat ARteta to 4th, that should've been the big change. Give Conte what he wants. But we gave him Spence, Lenglet etc.

Arteta got given 2 prem league winners in Jesus & Zinchenko. And in January he got another proven winner in Jorginho & then Trossard...

Didnt we also get Richarlison, Udogie, Porro, Romero & Bissouma? (according to transfer market..)

 

[Gb160]

This also wouldn't be written if we had slightly more luck yesterday enough to make a comeback, or if our 25m backup defender that chose us over Bayern and was most expensive signing during winter transfer window could just pass the ball, defend better or not keep Ipswich players onside.

It's being written because we shouldn't be in the position of trying (and failing) to make a comeback against fucking Ipswich.
It's being written because we've lost nearly half of our PL games.

 

[YB123]

Didnt we also get Richarlison, Udogie, Porro, Romero & Bissouma? (according to transfer market..)

Romero was season before for Nuno.

Udogie agreed in Jan and didnt join until Ange.

We then got Porro end of Jan.

Conte didnt want Bissouma. It was an opportunistic buy with one year left.

He was backed with Richy.

 

[Gb160]

You're not wrong but we've seen before that Levy doesn't like it when the focus is on him, so while we can't force him out, maybe we can make him see that we support the manager more than we do him.
Maybe that way he'll actually back someone to a decent degree.

We'll always be clutching at straws while Levy is in charge but I'm sick of him buying another 18 months of us fans waiting to see how another manager does, only to see them fail because of the same reasons.

I'd said previously that not backing Conte was the last straw for me, only to get sucked back in again.
I'm only backing Ange so hard because he's the current manager (and I do like the bloke) but Levy has really got to be shown that the jig is up and the fanbase are wise to his ways.

He gets away with it because half of our fans (still) think that a new manager will fix everything. Its mental.

 

[ReadieSpur]

Romero was season before for Nuno.

Udogie agreed in Jan and didnt join until Ange.

We then got Porro end of Jan.

Conte didnt want Bissouma. It was an opportunistic buy with one year left.

He was backed with Richy.

So Porro, Bissouma and Richy then, with also spending on Udogie for the furture.(you dont know that he didnt want Bissouma- he only ever called out Spence as a club signing).

So it's not quite the Spence and Lenglet only narrative that was trying to be spun.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

He gets away with it because half of our fans (still) think that a new manager will fix everything. Its mental.

I think in the past we had Ramos to Redknapp and then AVB to Pochettino. In both cases those managers fixed a lot from the previous coach but equally both of those coaches got hamstrung by the club in the end. I don’t know how anyone can’t see fixing the top is the most important fix we could make.

 

[Mark_147]

I don't think anyone is getting what I'm saying, whilst I don't necessarily agree that gray etc are better than what we have their ceiling is much higher, I would match rather have them start and develop rather than some of the current 11 on form.

I actually think they would possess more energy and show some passion that evidently missing.

We're currently 10th and would be a lot lower if all the players you want to start were in the team. Would you be happy with that?