Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Archibald&Crooks]

It's a weird one with Ange, I really like the bloke and wanted him to do well but it just hasn't worked to now. I don't think he has helped himself with his kamikaze tactics and lack of plan B. Plus, who the hell do you bring in if he goes?

This Plan B thing just isn't a thing, it really isn't. He shown he can change things up but that's not the main point, my main point is that lacking Plan B is something that's been levelled at almost every manager we've had since Pleat and definitely every manager since the internet was invented.

 

[Typical Spurs]

Fair enough, we're all allowed to have our own opinions on Ange but that's still not addressing the actual issue here.

There is no quick fix while Levy is in charge because the next manager will go the same way as his predecessors.

There only one person that a new manager helps and that's Levy.
Another short-term fix to keep the forgetful fans happy for a while longer.

What manager would you be prepared to stick with through the rough times?
Is there one? Or will you be back here 18 months later shouting at the same clouds?

I hear you mate. And I don't disagree with the points regarding Levy.

I'm just saying it can be both and for me Ange is underperforming too.

 

[muppetman]

This Plan B thing just isn't a thing, it really isn't. He shown he can change things up but that's not the main point, my main point is that lacking Plan B is something that's been levelled at almost every manager we've had since Pleat and definitely every manager since the internet was invented.

People don't really care about a plan of any sort, anything other than winning is "simply unacceptable!" or some nonsense.

 

[marion52]

Goal article

Good article but why say we plummeted to 10th but no mention of only one win/ 3 points away from 3rd?

 

[Meercat]

I’ll preface by saying I’m not Ange out, but 22p out of the last 54 is not a good look on a manger of a team with European ambitions. That means there are problems on the pitch and that is on the players and the manager to fix. It’s too easy, I feel, to blame Levy for not giving him the tools, looking at the wealth of talent that is there it might not be enough to push for titles, but it has to be enough to be more successful than 22p from 54p. In the same period, Sean Dyche at Everton has managed 23p from 54, and they’re bottom half with a considerably different set of circumstances around them.

What throws me, like everyone else, is that every few games we will have a performance like the second half vs Villa and I come away thinking, okay we just need it to click, and when it does, boy we are going to fly… but those moments are beginning to feel like a problem rather than a beacon of hope.

The thing for me is we need to get off the merry-go-round… we have to break the cycle of dumping managers ever 12-18 months and double down in supporting one, that one, because he’s incumbent, has to be Ange because the alternative is another manager with a different plan needing different players needing more time needing something they aren’t going to get. Personally, I don’t think Ange is the man, because like Conte and other idealists he feels too intractable, and his system seems destined to fail because of the arrogance of the man and instead of realizing that in the Premier League every team has international level players capable of punishing you and exploiting your weaknesses arguing that there is an arrogance about the PL…

What we are doing, it feels like, is reverting to that late 80s early 90s Spurs who could beat anyone on their day, rather than can beat anyone it’s about ‘our day’ and we are becoming that cup team we used to be. That, actually, for a little while, wouldn’t be so bad if it brought the desired result of that first trophy in years.

But I can’t help wonder how a manager who is a little more reserved, like Slott, might work with these players, just a little less gung ho, a little more patient, with some protection to the defence, maybe looking to play a CM/DM pivot partnership where, when we attack one goes forward and one holds to protect the back line, like Makalele used to… vs the all out attack… because the manager, the coaching and the tactics have to shoulder some of the burden of being worse than Everton since April…

 

[Albertbarich]

I’m sure another manager could get a bit more tactically out of some players and make improvements here and there but then the summer will come. The manager in question, just like every other wil want help in certain positions to build his team.

Now maybe it’s an ultra modern one that doesn’t have to choose the players . So he is happy as long as he say hypothetically gets a new winger and left back. Both with experience and certain attributes. When the club ignores what he asks for and just gets the players they think offers the best value for money because of resell value or payment terms then , well then that’s when the problems start.

Does the new manager change all his plans, adapt if you will, but he has just spent six months utilising his current players in this system because it fits them best. Don’t worry says Daniel , we can use this season as a building one , by next summer hopefully the sort of player you like becomes available and we can get them for you.

Another building season?? F that says Romero, ‘Hola, mr agent, transfer please’. He was rubbish anyway , say some spurs fans, we all thought Dragusin was better plus we have a Croatian kid playing in Belgium who 99% of us have never seen but I’m sure he can come straight in and be ready to lead the whole defense. That’s sure to happen.

Another building season? Question the fans When they realise in October realise what’s happened? But you told us , the new stadium , you have all this sponsorship deals EXPRESSVPN GODAMIT!

Suddenly every loss puts the new manager under intense pressure, the fans are in their restless cycle again. ‘Look’ says tactico Ruperrt on blue sky ‘ I like this new manager, but he needs to understand the half spaces better as Udogies muscle breakdown can’t cope with it. I’m a huge fan but I’m wondering if someone else can come in and make some tweaks’ .

It’s now December and the club are tenth, X, blue sky, red sky, ihatetrump.com, I love flags.net and all the other social sites are in uproar as levy charges 90 quid for a home cup tie to Chesterfield, the media are putting huge pressure on the manager.

The clubs response?

‘We’re delighted to announce Welcome to Afghanistan as our new official tourism partners’

rinse and repeat, every single time.

 

[wayneg]

I took a break from posting in here since the Conte days, had to update the avatar this morning.

Though I keep lurking here everyday, but for some reason I felt the need to post.

I am so torn with Ange, I want him to succeed but they are reservations about wether he is the right man to succeed, on our day we are very good but defeats against Ipswich, Palace etc so not go unnoticed and the capitulation against Brighton is a worry.

People are arguing about not enough leaders etc. But ultimately Ange is responsible for this, he's picking the same players.

Romero, as good as he is, on current form shouldn't be starting, the same could be said with Son, the centre midfield with the exception of Kule constantly changes, I don't think he knows he can trust in there.

Enic/Levy won't change but the squad we have are capable of beating Ipswich, Palace etc.

My worry is that players such as Gray, Bergvall, Moore etc are going to end up with the same mindset as we currently have in the senior leadership committee.

I know this season isnt over yet, but I really wish we would just blood the likes of gray, Bergvall, Moore etc and dispense of the senior players that are just not producing consistently, at least with the above these young players will give 110% and we are developing them quicker.

If we went with a team of

Vic
Porro
Drag
VDV
Udogie
Gray
Sarr/beegval
Kule
Moore/odobert
Solanke
Johnson

At least it's young and whilst we will suffer defeats it would at least be developing these young players and they will at least give 110% as opposed to the current senior players constantly starting and offering up the same performances.

I just feel Ange needs to be bold now and stop playing players on reputation etc

The talk of sacking now is far to premature, at the end of the season he can be judged.

 

[mil1lion]

Of course that's not ideal method, but only here at SC there are 18 pages written that mentions "Levy" in any context since start of yesterdays game. 18 pages before that? It's basically a whole month since 14th Oct to 9th Nov. And guess what, most active days during that period happens to be 27th and 28th October, what a complete coincidence that it's two days after another loss against Crystal Palace!


Why people weren't moaning that we didn't sign Pedro Neto after City or Aston Villa game, but are moaning today? Why people weren't moaning about Levy after City or Aston Villa, but are moaning today? Why people weren't moaning about Levy in 21/22 season, but were moaning in 22/23?
Levy gave the same platform and squad for Ange to work this week as last week, last month etc. He works exactly the same way this year as last year, 5 years ago or 20 years ago.


It's LevyOut movement that sees bad result and is becoming active again - just to then moan about seeing bigger picture.

Are you seriously asking why people complain after a poor loss and not after a good win? That's kind of the point in bringing up the issues otherwise what are you going to just complain all season? Of course when things go well there's no point complaining, we watch football as a hobby so it makes perfect sense to enjoy those moments when it's going well. It's the same for the media, nobody wants to hear these things being said when things are going well. In fact most people won't even give any time of day off the back of a win. You criticise when the team does badly again to try and understand why it happens. This isn't a one off now, it's scraping past Coventry, losing from 2 up at Brighton, losing at Palace, Galatasaray and Ipswich now. Those are the times to complain but that shouldn't stop fans having their moment in the sun when the team does well.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

I just don’t see his tactics working in this league or major European competitions. Yes we will win games but it will continue to be win some, lose some which will place us exactly where we are, mid table.

I still don’t quite understand the wingers in our system. The world’s best players are all inverted forwards, Mbappe, Vinicius Jr, Salah, Son, the list goes on and on. Why do we insist on having wingers that hug the touch line and use our full backs as playmakers?

The system stagnates our best players. I know we all have a tendency to overrate our players but seriously, our back line is the best it has been in years but again the system is making them all look incompetent.

A 4-2-3-1 with overlapping full backs and Son and Kulusevski as inside forwards is the best use of our squad. Johnson and Werner currently fit Ange’s system best but they are average players. There aren’t players like that out there anymore.

If he doesn’t adapt then mid table is the best we will achieve, hence me wanting him gone sooner rather than later.

 

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

It's a weird one with Ange, I really like the bloke and wanted him to do well but it just hasn't worked to now. I don't think he has helped himself with his kamikaze tactics and lack of plan B. Plus, who the hell do you bring in if he goes?

I'd challenge these points; I keep hearing the words 'kamikaze' and 'shambolic' but I'm not sure I see it this season. It's like we can't concede a goal anymore without it being some sort of hyperbolic incident. Defence has improved (not immensely, but the stats don't lie), we’re better at set pieces (not immensely, but stats etc etc); our line has definitely been tweaked dependant on who we play (not perfect, but it's not exactly Chelsea with 9 men).

And to say it isn't working doesn't take into account the good results we've had (9 wins from the last 12 etc).

Of course, there is a consistency issue and if we're not winning games we should be winning on paper, perhaps there is a deeper issue structurally; personally, I only think we can judge that effectively is once we've played 38 games, which is why I'm sure Ange gets the season barring a relegation-esque collapse.

But it's also clear to me we will be having these discussions every match we lose. With not much more new to say.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I took a break from posting in here since the Conte days, had to update the avatar this morning.

Though I keep lurking here everyday, but for some reason I felt the need to post.

I am so torn with Ange, I want him to succeed but they are reservations about wether he is the right man to succeed, on our day we are very good but defeats against Ipswich, Palace etc so not go unnoticed and the capitulation against Brighton is a worry.

People are arguing about not enough leaders etc. But ultimately Ange is responsible for this, he's picking the same players.

Romero, as good as he is, on current form shouldn't be starting, the same could be said with Son, the centre midfield with the exception of Kule constantly changes, I don't think he knows he can trust in there.

Enic/Levy won't change but the squad we have are capable of beating Ipswich, Palace etc.

My worry is that players such as Gray, Bergvall, Moore etc are going to end up with the same mindset as we currently have in the senior leadership committee.

I know this season isnt over yet, but I really wish we would just blood the likes of gray, Bergvall, Moore etc and dispense of the senior players that are just not producing consistently, at least with the above these young players will give 110% and we are developing them quicker.

If we went with a team of

Vic
Porro
Drag
VDV
Udogie
Gray
Sarr/beegval
Kule
Moore/odobert
Solanke
Johnson

At least it's young and whilst we will suffer defeats it would at least be developing these young players and they will at least give 110% as opposed to the current senior players constantly starting and offering up the same performances.

I just feel Ange needs to be bold now and stop playing players on reputation etc

The talk of sacking now is far to premature, at the end of the season he can be judged.

If we played that team we’d not be inconsistent, we’d just consistently lose mate, a lot of these youngsters we have aren’t ready to start yet.

 

[Mr Pink]

I just don’t see his tactics working in this league or major European competitions. Yes we will win games but it will continue to be win some, lose some which will place us exactly where we are, mid table.

I still don’t quite understand the wingers in our system. The world’s best players are all inverted forwards, Mbappe, Vinicius Jr, Salah, Son, the list goes on and on. Why do we insist on having wingers that hug the touch line and use our full backs as playmakers?

The system stagnates our best players. I know we all have a tendency to overrate our players but seriously, our back line is the best it has been in years but again the system is making them all look incompetent.

A 4-2-3-1 with overlapping full backs and Son and Kulusevski as inside forwards is the best use of our squad. Johnson and Werner currently fit Ange’s system best but they are average players. There aren’t players like that out there anymore.

If he doesn’t adapt then mid table is the best we will achieve, hence me wanting him gone sooner rather than later.

Mate we still have scored more goals than anyone else in the league though.

Defensively is where we need big improvment. Yes the system exposes us, but there's still room for improvement.

Id be looking at selling Romero and bringing in someone like Guehi to partner VDV

 

[wayneg]

If we played that team we’d not be inconsistent, we’d just consistently lose mate, a lot of these youngsters we have aren’t ready to start yet.

Are you telling me gray wouldn't be as good if not better than Biss or Bent? Drag on the right side would not weaken the side based on Romero performance this season and again Moore/Odobert couldn't do any worse than Son currently, the rest of the team is exactly how it is now.

 

[ajspurs]

Mate we still have scored more goals than anyone else in the league though.

Defensively is where we need big improvment. Yes the system exposes us, but there's still room for improvement.

Id be looking at selling Romero and bringing in someone like Guehi to partner VDV

It's that persistent exposure that has me concerned. I do feel like for as long as we have both Udogie and Porro simultaneously bombing forward, it will always be present. Both the fullbacks influence in attack has lessened as time has gone on too.

Are you telling me gray wouldn't be as good if not better than Biss or Bent? Drag on the right side would not weaken the side based on Romero performance this season and again Moore/Odobert couldn't do any worse than Son currently, the rest of the team is exactly how it is now.

It would not surprise me if those players didn't perform better than the ones you want them to replace at all.

 

[mil1lion]

To be fair Sanchez didn’t look bang average the other day when we played Galatasaray.

Up against Lankshear in a back 3 helped him there. He did struggle with the Solanke goal though. We know he's a good player on his day but not the level needed to challenge top of the Premier League. I'm not sure Dragusin is any better though. That's a big issue when Romero is not doing well. Sanchez could do a job alongside Alderweireld or Vertonghen and I feel Romero is like that too. He needs a leader alongside him but instead he is supposed to be the leader. I would love a Lloris and Alderweireld in this defence with Porro, Udogie and VdV.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

Mate we still have scored more goals than anyone else in the league though.

Defensively is where we need big improvment. Yes the system exposes us, but there's still room for improvement.

Id be looking at selling Romero and bringing in someone like Guehi to partner VDV

Yes but there needs to be a balance, it’s all well and good scoring goals against Everton, West Ham etc but following it up with results like Saturday and Palace is exactly my point.

I don’t want to be an entertaining mid table team, the best teams are consistent and difficult to beat, I just don’t see that happening under Ange.

I definitely agree with selling Romero and buying Guehi though.

 

[Kirito]

Good article but why say we plummeted to 10th but no mention of only one win/ 3 points away from 3rd?

That’s because we’re 10th and 1 point away from 13th with Man City away next. They won’t keep on losing.

Chelsea have the mighty Leicester next.

 

[C1w8]

Are you telling me gray wouldn't be as good if not better than Biss or Bent? Drag on the right side would not weaken the side based on Romero performance this season and again Moore/Odobert couldn't do any worse than Son currently, the rest of the team is exactly how it is now.

Romero (though i get frustrated when he stands on the ball for ages) plays progressive passes that Dragusin wouldnt dare to even try, i dont think either have covered themselves in glory defensively in this system so i'll call that a draw. We've seen the youngsters do things in flashes but none of them have done enough to suggest with any certainty that they would upgrade the starting eleven. No way should Bergvall be considered a prem starter anytime soon based on what he's shown so far, not trying to knock the kid, but you've got him as an option alongside Sarr as a potential starter, that's not even close to a competition right now.

At best that team performs at the same level as our starters, and more than likely it performs worse imo.

The teams ceiling right now is very high when it's humming, the floor is very low when it's not, and thats what we need to solve. Throwing in the youngsters/backups we've got doesnt remedy the latter imo, it wont make us more consistent.

 

[wayneg]

Romero (though i get frustrated when he stands on the ball for ages) plays progressive passes that Dragusin wouldnt dare to even try, i dont think either have covered themselves in glory defensively in this system so i'll call that a draw. We've seen the youngsters do things in flashes but none of them have done enough to suggest with any certainty that they would upgrade the starting eleven. No way should Bergvall be considered a prem starter anytime soon based on what he's shown so far, not trying to knock the kid, but you've got him as an option alongside Sarr as a potential starter, that's not even close to a competition right now.

At best that team performs at the same level as our starters, and more than likely it performs worse imo.

The teams ceiling right now is very high when it's humming, the floor is very low when it's not, and thats what we need to solve. Throwing in the youngsters/backups we've got doesnt remedy the latter imo, it wont make us more consistent.

My main point was if it performs to the same level or close enough, it's worth going for that option as it will only improve these players for next year.

I honestly don't think there would be a drop offs I actually think gray would do a better job as well as Moore/Odobert over son.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Are you telling me gray wouldn't be as good if not better than Biss or Bent? Drag on the right side would not weaken the side based on Romero performance this season and again Moore/Odobert couldn't do any worse than Son currently, the rest of the team is exactly how it is now.

Moore / Bergvall and Gray are not as good as Udogie, Son and our current midfield 3.