Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Ghost Hardware]

If it's Levy doing the firing (instead of Lange) were doomed and just repeating a rancid cycle..... I like Ange and think some fans underestimate the size of this project, especially if the squad loaded with young inexperienced players with massive potential.... it's 3 years minimum for Ange for me.... If Lange has already identified the next manager in this process (which you'd like to think he has) then maybe and change in manger could be seen as proactive..... but lets not kid our selves, that Levy really knows what he doing in this situation..... If Ange get sacked because Levy thinks the fans are turning..... that's the worst kind of sacking to happen at this point for this young squad!!!! BSoDL..... will love it

IF Ange goes, and like you I really hope we don't go down that root any time soon, then we really have to change the way we are structured. We are already close to it but we need to fully commit.

IF Ange fails, essentially as you allude to, the only way we maybe work is if we no longer go for managers but instead go for a head coaches. Their job should remain on the training pitch and to work with the players our DoF gives him. The DoF should be the one in charge of player recruitment and the head coach in charge of the tactics with little say over who is brought in whilst also understanding that it is his job to be flexible enough to work with the tools given to him within a general "attacking" ethos. Whatever budget Levy has for a window he tells the DoF who is then left to his own devices. If it is only 50 mil for fee and contract then he needs to make it work on that even if it means shopping at Las Palmas instead of Atleti. By and large It should be the DoF's team and ethos.

That doesn't mean to say the coach can't request improvements in certain positions if he sees a weakness but we can't bring in another manager that needs specific skill sets in order to make his ideal tactic work.

I don't believe that we would necessarily see more success this way because how we operate at the top is fundamentally flawed but I do think we will be more at peace with the way the club is run and hopefully in time build something coherent because over the last few years its been anything but.

Essentially we need to stop thinking we can become a Liverpool or Arsenal and maybe accept and embrace being a Brighton.

Anyway I still really hope we stick with Ange and back him in Jan/next summer but I'd be lying if I said i din't have doubts about his future here.

 

[felmani26]

Whilst we have rotated, Solanke and Johnson in particular have played significant minutes due to injuries to Odobert, Richarlison and Son.

The way we defend is from the front with our press and Brighton 2nd half and yesterday our pressing was awful.

Attitude and application is massively at fault.

I'm not suggesting certain players such as Udogie aren't suffering from fatigue mainly constituted through poor player recruitment this summer and the obvious Spence fuck up - which is totally on Ange - but tiredness as a general mitigating factor i'm not buying.

 

[spursfan77]

You’re probably right, but he’s not going anywhere for the foreseeable future imo.

I think when Lewis dies we might find out but even then I think it is unlikely. Levy doesnt want to let go and crucially they over value everything they have.

I like Ange and think he is a genuine guy who sees this as a big club that havent had success for ages. I believe him when he wants to bring it here. It would make him a legend. Let's be honest he has a huge ego, he'd love it.

 

[LukaKranjcar]

It's the building foundations aspect that's particularly worrying. The foundations can't just be "its who we are mate" attacking football because it just flat out won't cut it at this level.

There are no easy games in the premier league, tactically or physically. When you've got one of the worst teams in the league managed by Kieran McKenna - arguably far more astute tactically than Ange - you're going to come unstuck far more often than you will at Celtic or in Japan.

I love Ange to bits, he's a thoroughly decent man with principles he staunchly defends and sticks to. I'd love for him to be the man to put silverware in front of us for the first time in decades. It would give me immense pride to see us do it his way, but I just can't see this going anywhere other than where we are right now. On our day were brilliant, playing a style of football that befits the club and us as fans and that may very well win us a trophy but is that the basis for strong foundations? I'm not so sure.

You can argue the case for us not spending on good enough players or for only giving him prospects to work with and that's a very valid criticism, but I don't even know if this system works with better players. We're so comically exposed defending that you could have a team of galacticos out there and it still falls short.

There is no precedent for this type of football winning anything at the highest levels, the greatest teams in the world all have solid defences at the very least.

 

[mil1lion]

I said all along I was going to reserve judgement until at least after Christmas. I've changed my mind!

There is no point in sacking Ange now this season whilst we are still in cup competitions. On our day we are capable of beating anyone, and very much capable of winning one of the cups. Unless things dramatically change with our league form though I 100% wouldn't give him another season even if we do win a trophy. All this "hasn't got the players" stuff is bullshit. This group is more than capable of winning games comfortably against Ipswich, Palace, Coventry, Leicester etc, and it's not that we have lost/drawn these games(scraped a win v Cov) it's that we've just not turned up. Add to this the Brighton Second half and some of the luck we've had in Europe with poor finishing from the opposition and it's just not good enough. Just blaming Ange is not fair of course as it's not all his fault, but he's picking these players, and it's his job to get the best out of them which he is definitely not achieving anywhere near enough. In the same way it's not all Levy's fault either as again this group is more than good enough to beat those teams mentioned and comfortably.

What I will say though is that should new owners come in I want a clean sweep of the board and management team. They can all jog on because none of them are good enough to push us forward.

I think this would happen anyway. I'm sure any new owner will want to pick their own guy. Although part of me would like to see how Ange does with top players because his football is great to watch. It just requires top defensive players brought in to make it work. We need our Alison and Van Dijk window really.

 

[E17yid]

IF Ange goes, and like you I really hope we don't go down that root any time soon, then we really have to change the way we are structured. We are already close to it but we need to fully commit.

IF Ange fails, essentially as you allude to, the only way we maybe work is if we no longer go for managers but instead go for a head coaches. Their job should remain on the training pitch and to work with the players our DoF gives him. The DoF should be the one in charge of player recruitment and the head coach in charge of the tactics with little say over who is brought in whilst also understanding that it is his job to be flexible enough to work with the tools given to him within a general "attacking" ethos. Whatever budget Levy has for a window he tells the DoF who is then left to his own devices. If it is only 50 mil for fee and contract then he needs to make it work on that even if it means shopping at Las Palmas instead of Atleti. By and large It should be the DoF's team and ethos.

That doesn't mean to say the coach can't request improvements in certain positions if he sees a weakness but we can't bring in another manager that needs specific skill sets in order to make his ideal tactic work.

I don't believe that we would necessarily see more success this way because how we operate at the top is fundamentally flawed but I do think we will be more at peace with the way the club is run and hopefully in time build something coherent because over the last few years its been anything but.

Essentially we need to stop thinking we can become a Liverpool or Arsenal and maybe accept and embrace being a Brighton.

Anyway I still really hope we stick with Ange and back him in Jan/next summer but I'd be lying if I said i din't have doubts about his future here.

I always thought Ange was supposed to be that type of manager, kind of. In the sense he was flexible and always said there’s thousands of great footballers out there it’s more about finding the ones with good attitudes and he can work with the rest. I also thought we were getting someone who specialised in rebuilds and coming into clubs when they were having a bit of a rough time but I think he bit off to much for him to chew with us if I’m being honest.

 

[Tucker]

I think when Lewis dies we might find out but even then I think it is unlikely. Levy doesnt want to let go and crucially they over value everything they have.

I like Ange and think he is a genuine guy who sees this as a big club that havent had success for ages. I believe him when he wants to bring it here. It would make him a legend. Let's be honest he has a huge ego, he'd love it.

Probably more for the takeover thread but I reckon Lewis wants to cash in his chips before he dies. Who knows what succession style family politics would play out should we still be in their hands once he does die. I think that might slow things down even more.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

I think when Lewis dies we might find out but even then I think it is unlikely. Levy doesnt want to let go and crucially they over value everything they have.

I like Ange and think he is a genuine guy who sees this as a big club that havent had success for ages. I believe him when he wants to bring it here. It would make him a legend. Let's be honest he has a huge ego, he'd love it.

I’m sure Levy will have first refusal for buying Lewis‘s shares that could make him majority shareholder and full control.

It probably depends on whether Levy can raise the money needed to gain full control

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I said all along I was going to reserve judgement until at least after Christmas. I've changed my mind!

There is no point in sacking Ange now this season whilst we are still in cup competitions. On our day we are capable of beating anyone, and very much capable of winning one of the cups. Unless things dramatically change with our league form though I 100% wouldn't give him another season even if we do win a trophy. All this "hasn't got the players" stuff is bullshit. This group is more than capable of winning games comfortably against Ipswich, Palace, Coventry, Leicester etc, and it's not that we have lost/drawn these games(scraped a win v Cov) it's that we've just not turned up. Add to this the Brighton Second half and some of the luck we've had in Europe with poor finishing from the opposition and it's just not good enough. Just blaming Ange is not fair of course as it's not all his fault, but he's picking these players, and it's his job to get the best out of them which he is definitely not achieving anywhere near enough. In the same way it's not all Levy's fault either as again this group is more than good enough to beat those teams mentioned and comfortably.

What I will say though is that should new owners come in I want a clean sweep of the board and management team. They can all jog on because none of them are good enough to push us forward.

I agree with most of this apart from the squad quality part. This is not to argue against you, just to add my perspective.

If we look at things objectively, on paper our squad is nowhere near the quality of our top 6 rivals. The traditional top 6, not the teams that come and go. City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, United and ourselves. We don’t have a single world class player on paper other than Son, whilst most of these teams have atleast 2. Never mind the overall quality across the squad and in terms of depth. We just can’t compete position for position.

The difference isn’t the amount of money spent, but HOW it’s spent. If Ange asked for the players we’ve recruited then I’m wrong, as I said yesterday we’ve recruited potential and nothing more. Our rivals sign world class or well established players regularly, we shop at the bargain bin.

Until this changes and we go out with the intention of buying that calibre of player, we’ll always be stuck in the same cycle. Hitting and hoping the potential pays off.

There isn’t a successful team in the league that’s done this, regardless of the manager they’ve signed. If signing potential was all it took Brighton would be winning the league.

The rest of your post is well written and as I’ve always said Ange isn’t devoid of any criticism or blame, but the problem is much larger than just that.

That being said, we should be beating the teams we’ve lost to this season. We could’ve been in a title run had we beat Palace, Ipswich and Brighton.

 

[McFlash]

There are a few players that I'm pointing the blame at, rather than the manager.

Some of them just aren't as good as we thought they were, and they think they are.

Then I'm looking at the board for once again half-arseing another window and only getting the Temu versions of what the manager asked for.

Don't get me wrong, I think the youngsters we've got will all be very good (even great) players but none of them are going to help challenge this season.
It's the senior players who are letting us down, Madders, Romero, Sonny, Bentancur, Bissouma should all be dragging us through games like yesterday.

It was always going to be a painful rebuild but Levy is going to drag out that pain for as long as he can, all the while he can get away with not spending big amounts to speed up the process.

So I'm fully behind Ange still as he's fighting with one hand tied behind his back.
Sacking him will do nothing other than set us further back, again.

 

[E17yid]

I agree with most of this apart from the squad quality part. This is not to argue against you, just to add my perspective.

If we look at things objectively, on paper our squad is nowhere near the quality of our top 6 rivals. The traditional top 6, not the teams that come and go. City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, United and ourselves. We don’t have a single world class player on paper other than Son, whilst most of these teams have atleast 2. Never mind the overall quality across the squad and in terms of depth. We just can’t compete position for position.

The difference isn’t the amount of money spent, but HOW it’s spent. If Ange asked for the players we’ve recruited then I’m wrong, as I said yesterday we’ve recruited potential and nothing more. Our rivals sign world class or well established players regularly, we shop at the bargain bin.

Until this changes and we go out with the intention of buying that calibre of player, we’ll always be stuck in the same cycle. Hitting and hoping the potential pays off.

There isn’t a successful team in the league that’s done this, regardless of the manager they’ve signed. If signing potential was all it took Brighton would be winning the league.

The rest of your post is well written and as I’ve always said Ange isn’t devoid of any criticism or blame, but the problem is much larger than just that.

That being said, we should be beating the teams we’ve lost to this season. We could’ve been in a title run had we beat Palace, Ipswich and Brighton.

UTD are shit and it’s early days with Chelsea but aside from Palmer I’m not seeing any truly world class players in their team. The table at the moment backs this up too, so far. Its wide open and clubs like Brighton and Forrest, who I’d say we have beater squads than, are right in the mix. You’d have thought that will look different come March time but everyone is having a go at the minute.

I can see what you’re saying about us to some degree but I’d say VdV and Romero and there or thereabouts and we have a lot of very good players who could potentially get to that level in a couple of years.

 

[okc1992]

Attitude and application is massively at fault.

I'm not suggesting certain players such as Udogie aren't suffering from fatigue mainly constituted through poor player recruitment this summer and the obvious Spence fuck up - which is totally on Ange - but tiredness as a general mitigating factor i'm not buying.

I agree attitude and application of certain players is at fault. Romero being one of them.

I do however think tiredness is a key factor though and it is due to poor recruitment. Udogie, Porro, Johnson and Solanke have played 1100-1200 minutes. Not getting a lb and starting rw was shocking. The spence fuck up is on Ange but again poor squad building meant we had to leave someone out.

 

[LannerSpurs]

Man City (A)
Fulham (H)
Bournemouth (A)
Chelsea (H)
Southampton (A)
Liverpool (H)
Nottingham Forest (A)

How many points do you see? If we take less than 12 then we'll be deep in midtable at the half way stage of the season...

No more than 9

 

[Trix]

You need a good project manager and a competent foreman.

Thing is a project manager is only any good if the project is within his remit of expertise. I must sound like a broken record but I think any manager who goes with a specific set up and philosophy is always doomed to fail under Enic. The only way to succeed as a manager here is if you are able to adapt your thinking to what you have given to you. If you are always waiting around for those final pieces of the jigsaw you'll undoubtedly have lost patience or things will have gotten stale before those players ever arrive.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Man City (A)
Fulham (H)
Bournemouth (A)
Chelsea (H)
Southampton (A)
Liverpool (H)
Nottingham Forest (A)

How many points do you see? If we take less than 12 then we'll be deep in midtable at the half way stage of the season...

Win 3 lose 3 and draw 1 is the way we go . We are deep in mid table now aren’t we….10th.
Up to halfway point of the season we have 5 of the current top 7 to play.
after the first 10 last season and up to the Villa game we have played 38 league games. A full season, not a bad sample size. We have garnered 56 pts….which in the real world would be about 9th or 10th.
It’s where we are mate.
Ange will need to win the Europa or he’s gone.

 

[felmani26]

Can the term 'Project Manager' be confined to the dustbin of life?

One of the biggest fallacies in football.

 

[Dougal]

I’m happy to let Postecoglou have at it for as long as needs be. There will not be a right choice of manager under ENIC and Levy. We are what we are. Postecoglou can stay until he wants to go. It won’t make a blind bit of difference either way.

 

[bubble07]

Neto would have been great

 

[Wig]

Spursy.

It's a term I hate, as it oversimplifies and gives a basic stereotype of how we always let ourselves down or throw things away.

However, over time, it becomes hard to disagree with doesn't it? And this is what it comes to... for us to be labelled in such a manner is because long-term we have built a mentality, a culture, of being soft push-overs, with no consistent fight in our belly, no fucking stamina to last the full season.

And this is where I feel sorry for Ange and some of his predecessors. These guys have been elsewhere and won a lot. Been at multiple clubs where winning is part of the culture. Now they're at Spurs they can go from winning against Man City to not showing up against winless Ipswich.

It's funny because after supporting the club for almost 40 years I've not seen a lot of trophies in that time, especially in recent years, so who am I to be all entitled that we should now be in a different position. My problem is that this long stretch without success is defining the club... it's a culture so ingrained that the players and club are happy to just look like they're competing, to try and push for a top 4 position, with no absolute determination to never stop until you reach the very top.

I always live in hope we can change our course. To give one positive light about Ange's Spurs, I have liked how many times we have managed to rescue wins from losing positions, which shows some strength in character. But it's never consistent enough and we're a long way off being able to redefine what being Spursy is all about.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

I agree with most of this apart from the squad quality part. This is not to argue against you, just to add my perspective.

If we look at things objectively, on paper our squad is nowhere near the quality of our top 6 rivals. The traditional top 6, not the teams that come and go. City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, United and ourselves. We don’t have a single world class player on paper other than Son, whilst most of these teams have atleast 2. Never mind the overall quality across the squad and in terms of depth. We just can’t compete position for position.

The difference isn’t the amount of money spent, but HOW it’s spent. If Ange asked for the players we’ve recruited then I’m wrong, as I said yesterday we’ve recruited potential and nothing more. Our rivals sign world class or well established players regularly, we shop at the bargain bin.

Until this changes and we go out with the intention of buying that calibre of player, we’ll always be stuck in the same cycle. Hitting and hoping the potential pays off.

There isn’t a successful team in the league that’s done this, regardless of the manager they’ve signed. If signing potential was all it took Brighton would be winning the league.

The rest of your post is well written and as I’ve always said Ange isn’t devoid of any criticism or blame, but the problem is much larger than just that.

That being said, we should be beating the teams we’ve lost to this season. We could’ve been in a title run had we beat Palace, Ipswich and Brighton.

Man Utd have 2 world class players …really? Fernandez is their best player but certainly not world class. Son is nowhere near it either. Chelsea have a lot of very good players but you couldn’t say their best, Palmer, is world class. One great season doesn’t equate to that .