Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[rossdapep]

Ange himself said Gray was signed for the future and now but he doesn’t start PL games.

Future = PL games.
Now = League Cup, EL

 

[Gassin's finest]

So how long are we giving him then? Til Christmas?

P.S. Gatland out too

If we qualify in Europa and progress to the League Cup Semi Final then he'll be fine.

If we fuck that up and are still 10th by New Year, then I wouldn't be surprised if Levy was ordering more packing boxes again...

 

[hughy]

I think he'll finish the season with us, and perhaps begrudgingly after such a painfully humiliating defeat, rightly so. As long as we're going strong in the cups I can't see any other outcome. I'm still trying to take the positives out of the bad games, as difficult as that is becoming (usually starts and ends with Solanke). However the defensive issues are making me feel physically sick at times.

 

[dagraham]

I’m actually just scunnered.

I can’t get my head around why we’re all sugar or all shite in the league. Our wins (4-0, 3-1, 3-0, 4-1, 4-1) and our losses (2-1, 1-0, 3-2, 1-0, 2-1). Why can’t we win close games? Why have we lost the last 5 games before international breaks? Why do we look so bad and disinterested in first halves of a lot of games?

Honestly I have no clue, and the fact I don’t means it’s hard to get a gauge on what we need to do to turn it around. Which leads me to my original point, scunnered.

I think the answer to this particular one is quite simple : because defending is an afterthought.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

It's the sweeping teams aside thing that gives hope that if it clicks, we'll be buzzing. I know a lot of people won't agree but I'm balls deep on Ange and am interested in seeing where giving a bloke more time than we usually do and more chance to try and build, to effect the changes the club needs. Given how poor we can be i'm not surprised that more and more people are giving up on it though, but as I said, for me, he has at least another season. Ange in.

Love this mate

 

[Maxtremist]

I would absolutely adore more consistency from Ange and the team. I do think he has to take a lot of the blame for that (as do the players, as does the board).

I think this was in many ways going to be the reality when we lost Harry Kane. So many in the media predicted this of us, so many of us as fans saw this to some degree and it's almost happening a year later than expected. So I think some of it is expectations and looking at where we actually are and what we can actually do.

I think looking at this season as a whole, it's frustrating to see and know that we feel at times so close to it all clicking but it's just not. Whilst I know there's certainly been weakness' in a lot of our games and great moments too, it's looking at the Leicester game and how close that was to a win. Looking at the Brighton game and that dreadful performance. Just those two games alone going how they looked like they were panning out puts us third in the table. And that's not even changing or looking at the Crystal Palace or Ipswich game.

I think we're in such a weird space as a team and it's so odd to analyse us. Because many are saying our defence is awful and a lot of the underlying numbers seem to point to that... yet there's only 4 teams in the league who've conceded less than us. No-one has scored more than us. I think given that... Ange has got something there and there is something there to work with and maybe just tightening one thing or changing one thing (for lack of a better way of phrasing it) shifts it for us.

Overall I'm still very much pro Ange, but an issue he had last year that we have again this year (that tbf I feel we've had a few times) is we just don't draw. Games like Ipswich and Palace... whilst they should be 'easy' wins... I think the important thing is to at least not lose them. And that's something we jus't don't have in us consistently enough. We drew 6 times last year, 6 the year before that and 5 times the year before that. It sounds simple and maybe a little reductive but if Ange can change some of our loses into draws at the very least I think we'll be much the better for it and I think that (arguably) little tweak will do us the world of good.

TLDR: I think there's enough there that there's something to build on... but I think we do need to commit to this building and see evidence of it soon.

 

[riggi]

Christ.

He won’t help

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

How’s the cheese room?

We prefer to call it the fromagerie

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I’m actually just scunnered.

I can’t get my head around why we’re all sugar or all shite in the league. Our wins (4-0, 3-1, 3-0, 4-1, 4-1) and our losses (2-1, 1-0, 3-2, 1-0, 2-1). Why can’t we win close games? Why have we lost the last 5 games before international breaks? Why do we look so bad and disinterested in first halves of a lot of games?

Honestly I have no clue, and the fact I don’t means it’s hard to get a gauge on what we need to do to turn it around. Which leads me to my original point, scunnered.

I suppose the fact we’ve conceded first in 13/15 of our games or home games (can’t remember which) , is a huge factor, we always have an uphill battle.

I love Ange and desperately want this to work but the tactics are a real concern tbh.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

ten Hag's Man Utd finished 3rd, then 8th, and is currently wallowing in 14th. Not only was the team getting worse the longer he was in charge (evidenced beyond all doubt by the league placings and results), but no-one (fans, pundits, players, owners etc.) seemed to be able to work out what he was trying to do with the team. There was seemingly no philosophy, no style of play, and no plan. They attempted to back the manager in the transfer window, but without a philsophy, style of play or plan, fresh faces were never likely to work out.

Postecolgolu's Spurs finished 5th. Performances have been inconsistent, but there is a clear philosophy, style of play and plan. The problem appears to be that we don't have plan B, and also that our young squad is lacking a bit of quality and experience.

Great post. Also when it clicks we looks absolutely brilliant! (Away at Utd, City in Cup, Villa at home, Everton & West Ham at home, etc etc), the issue is it doesn’t click often enough.

Now is that because of the tactics, is the squad not deep enough in terms of quality because we have bought so many young and inexperienced raw players, do we lack leaders to make sure our performances don’t drop especially against the lesser ranked sides, does Ange just need more time and more transfer windows to make us more consistent, is Ange out of his depth, do we just need to be more patient?…

Probably a mixture of all of the above.

 

[mil1lion]

Their goalkeeper was very good at snatching the ball out of the air through a crowd of players and keeping hold of it. Very calming when under pressure.

I’d quite like a keeper like that.

He wasn't under much pressure at all. He had so many clear catches of the ball it was all very routine. Our crossing was shocking all game. Although he also dropped a clanger at one point and got away with it. Oh and we scored from 2 set pieces, 1 just touched a hand so they were hardly great defending them. If the delivery was better it would behave been a different outcome.

 

[waresy]

If we qualify in Europa and progress to the League Cup Semi Final then he'll be fine.

If we fuck that up and are still 10th by New Year, then I wouldn't be surprised if Levy was ordering more packing boxes again...

Agreed, I think all the time we are making cup progress he is fine as the league form will probably continue to be inconsistent. Which means that he (rightly) should get chance to sort it out.

We are project, not an overnight fix and that generally ends up with inconsistency.

 

[14/04/91]

I agree with most of this.
What would you like to happen? Stick or twist?

I’d stick. However I think Lange & Munn need to sit him down and let him know we need to see better flexibility from him and no more poor attitude from the players.

 

[Archibald-CPH]

I am still behind Ange.

But the right choice back then, is now at Liverpool. IMHO

 

[Trix]

Just think it’s slightly over the top to make out we’ve been shit for 12 months. We haven’t. We’ve been wildly inconsistent. I agree that it’s an all or nothing game plan, but tbh I like that, and I think we can make it work. But I don’t think it’s going to happen over night, and I think it’s important to recognise the wider context when we throw out aberrant performances like the ones against Palace and Ipswich.

I don’t think it’s fair that people put aside the make up of the squad or the pathetic summer window we had, or to discount the injuries and fatigue to an already thin squad.

As I said yesterday, over the last two summers we’ve stripped a lot of experience out of this squad and replaced it with potential. We only addressed one key position in the summer, completely ignoring the defence in regards to transfers. An area that most of us universally agreed would need incomings to mitigate for potential injuries to the likes of Udogie and VDV.

These aren’t small niggles that a more pragmatic manager would over come. If you’ve only three centre backs and two of them are injured, what are you gonna do?

Even if we were playing with a full deck, I think we’d be struggling to finish top four this season, I even think top six would be a good achievement with this squad. But with all the injuries? Of course we are going to be sluggish after a hard midweek game.

So while yes I agree on paper we should have enough to beat Ipswich and Palace, but the game isn’t played on paper and the wider context has affected those performances.n

I’m still confident he’ll get things right here, especially if we add wisely (big if I know.) I really don’t see the benefit in changing manager now. Of course reassess in the summer, but even then, at some point we need to see a project through. Starting yet another rebuild just sets us back another 18 months.

Sorry mate can you just point out where I've said we've been shit for 12 months? What I have said is we've been making the same stupid mistakes since day one and I've also said over and over it's a real mixed bag, when it's great it's great, when it isn't it's awful, very few games where it's been somewhere in between.

None of what you say above explains why one game we are brilliant the next dog shit. It's not due to injuries, or squad depth, and it's nothing to do with Europe. This is the problem in general nowadays, we always have to look for an excuse. Now it's a myriad of excuses because one just won't suffice.

As for seeing a project through? Absolutely, but only if the manager is the right man for that project and that manager has to be a man that can work with what he's given. It shouldn't be that way but unfortunately under Enic, that will always be how it is.

 

[rossdapep]

Surely this time levy has to go before the manager?

As many said and Hoddle the other day "He would have sacked himself a long time ago"

 

[14/04/91]

Especially when you're selecting this game, that game, to fuel an agenda. Would it also be fair to say he's outfoxed the likes of Pep, ten Hag, Emery, Lopetegui in recent matches if this is the logic we're working on?

And that Pep himself has been outfoxed by Hurzuler, Iraola, Ange, Amorim etc? It's just not that simple.

I’m going by the last 30 odd matches. And I specifically referenced West Ham as an example of making a fantastic change.
But I’m sorry I don’t see enough from him when changes are needed. This isn’t knee jerk, it needs improvement as he’s had a season & half and the same things are happening.

 

[rossdapep]

I'm sorry but the default to "Levys fault" drives me bonkers. He might make some poor strategic decisions at the highest level but Ange has been allowed to get rid of players and bring players in, some very expensive players in some instances. Levy didn't fall asleep for 2 of the goals at the weekend. He also doesn't set us up to be insanely easy to counter against, he also doesn't drill the team to be unable to carve our clear chances despite having the majority of the ball in most games.

The buck stops with the players and the manager.

on a microcosm yes. Not his fault.

But the bigger picture and this is Tottenham. Flaky. Fail to win at crucial moments.

That's because the culture of the club that is set by him.

 

[Whitey]

I think levy will want to wait till the summer but if we go out of the cup and carry on midtable might be before

If it's Levy doing the firing (instead of Lange) were doomed and just repeating a rancid cycle..... I like Ange and think some fans underestimate the size of this project, especially if the squad loaded with young inexperienced players with massive potential.... it's 3 years minimum for Ange for me.... If Lange has already identified the next manager in this process (which you'd like to think he has) then maybe and change in manger could be seen as proactive..... but lets not kid our selves, that Levy really knows what he doing in this situation..... If Ange get sacked because Levy thinks the fans are turning..... that's the worst kind of sacking to happen at this point for this young squad!!!! BSoDL..... will love it

 

[bigfrooj]

He wasn't under much pressure at all. He had so many clear catches of the ball it was all very routine. Our crossing was shocking all game. Although he also dropped a clanger at one point and got away with it. Oh and we scored from 2 set pieces, 1 just touched a hand so they were hardly great defending them. If the delivery was better it would behave been a different outcome.

I know, just being facetious. Vicario needs to improve and it would be nice for him to have a more calming presence but he's a decent keeper. Why we kept crossing the ball high and floating time after time I don't know, when the low whipped in cross was more obvious. Werner was the only one who seemed to see it.