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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Ange In or Ange Out?

  • Ange In

  • Ange Out


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fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,385
58,888
100% I want Ange to have the season.

Just want to see more allowances made in terms of how we prepare, and set up, for some of these tricky away games.

I think what would really kick us on if we saw Ange just show a little more pragmitism on the road.

Not comprmising his attacking principles completely, just some intelligent adjustments.

I remember United under Ferguson, theyd blow teams away with breathtaking attacking football one week, and the next theyd grind out a 1 nil win away to Stoke.

Still the same outcome, 3 points.

But Ferguson was the master at recognising that different conditions often required a tweaking to the approach. He'd often bring a fresh Park ji-sung in, and cqpitalise from that energy at tough away grounds.

For me starting Sarr was obvious yesterday.
That is a good reference point. City even do that under Pep sometimes away from home where they grind out a tight 0-1 or 1-2.

Under Ferguson, Utd would blow teams away at Old Trafford in a very attacking 4-4-2 and then away from home in the PL and especially in Europe they’d switch to a 4-5-1 and sit in and counter more when they needed to.

I love Ange but I’m not sure any manager has been truly successful by simply only having a Plan A and not even having a slightly tweaked version of plan A, never mind a plan B or C.

But tbh this is a bigger issue than Ange, it stems from the top, our squad is yet again not good enough in many areas and the culture at the club remains the same under ENIC and the same cycle will just keep repeating itself except now it’s not just a strong top4 teams we are dropping away from there is a good 8-10 teams who we could drop behind so our rinse and repeat strategy will no longer be good enough for even 5/6th on a bad season but we’ll often be out of Europe all together possibly even upper 2nd half of the table!
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
22,660
373,102
I think that away from home we need a change to the system - I'd drop Maddison and play Bissouma (or Bentancur) with Sarr behind Deki personally. We are far too easy to play through in midfield - I don't know if it's due to Bissouma just not being at the level needed to cover or if it's an impossible task for anybody.
Yep a real controlling DM should be the top of his wish list, if it uses the entire budget to get the right one then so be it. It is key to everything imo. I personally don't think Bissouma or Bentancur have the right skillsets to play that role effectively.
 

olliec

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2012
4,025
13,325
Yep a real controlling DM should be the top of his wish list, if it uses the entire budget to get the right one then so be it. It is key to everything imo. I personally don't think Bissouma or Bentancur have the right skillsets to play that role effectively.
I would say we need a Rice or Rodri type player, but that’s not easy to find.
 

Danny1

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
6,217
20,594
I've stayed out of here up to this moment. I've seen multiple pages have been added and can imagine the messages.

Yesterday was a truly horrific display from our players. I was literally shaking my head in disbelief that they just could not pass the ball to eachother. This wasn't something that Palace were particularly stopping, because multiple times our players had time and just continued to pass directly to the Palace man.

Van de Ven was truly horrendous all game. I love the guy but he had an absolute nightmare and the goal was on all him & the pussy footed tackles at the back post. Romero, Porro & Udogie were not much better and because all 4 of them started so poorly it really set the tone for the entire game. Do I think Ange missed a trick with playing Bents or Sarr instead of one of Kulusevski & Maddison, in hindsight yes I think he did & hopefully going forward in our away games we will shore up our central midfield options.

The move of Kulusevski central has been both brilliant and troublesome because we basically now have 2 attacking midfielders. When it works it will look brilliant like against West Ham, however the opposite will happen a fair amount of times. Ange is going to have to make a very tough decision & decide which player is best for which game as I truly don't believe you can have both in the same team.

Palace were rubbish yesterday, looking at the game we were abject, probably the worst performance we've had under Ange yet we still hit the post & their keeper made a worldie from Maddison. There has been talk in the Scouting Thread about what is required and for me, another RW with a different profile is desperately needed. Johnson will have good moments but in general if he doesn't score he isn't really involved in the game and yesterday with young Mikey on the left we looked a bit impotent. We don't really create a whole load of chances for Solanke & again that falls on the responsibility of the wide men.

To play the way Ange wants we have to be insanely clinical, much like Arsenal are at the minute, they get a chance & they score it because they do not create that much as a team. Someone like Mbuemo coming in would be a very very good start in my opinion as he is as clinical as almost anyone else in the league (bar Haaland of course).
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
11,190
37,044
Yep a real controlling DM should be the top of his wish list, if it uses the entire budget to get the right one then so be it. It is key to everything imo.
Yeah I'm inclined to agree with this now - my only slight concern if we did would be if it would block the progress of Gray who I think is eventually going to be the main man in that position but having said that, it's such a key position for how we play we need top quality in there right now and Gray can develop in his own time and at least be a rotation option there for the next couple of years. I'd look to move Bissouma on personally if we bring somebody in.
 

Mattyhp

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
121
756
This loss is totally on Ange imo. You could see by 45mins the intensity palace was pressing us. We needed to be a lot quicker in transition. Clearly madders and Kulu was not working and anyone with a football knowledge can see that. Sarr needed to come on for Madders at half time. Playing Kulu and Madders against a team that presses is setting up for a lost in the future.
From my view you could see after 10 mins the midfield battle had been lost. Still can’t believe Sarr was rested on Thursday and didn’t start. Honestly that one adjustment in midfield could have made all the difference.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
22,660
373,102
Yeah I'm inclined to agree with this now - my only slight concern if we did would be if it would block the progress of Gray who I think is eventually going to be the main man in that position but having said that, it's such a key position for how we play we need top quality in there right now and Gray can develop in his own time and at least be a rotation option there for the next couple of years. I'd look to move Bissouma on personally if we bring somebody in.
I'd get rid of both Biss and Bentancur for a solid DM that fits Ange's system. Gray as the option/rotation.
 

Mattyhp

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
121
756
I think that away from home we need a change to the system - I'd drop Maddison and play Bissouma (or Bentancur) with Sarr behind Deki personally. We are far too easy to play through in midfield - I don't know if it's due to Bissouma just not being at the level needed to cover or if it's an impossible task for anybody.
100% this. Only City play with one holding player, but they have proper box to box players in front of them. To play with two 10’s is impossible unless you have a Rodri level DM. So unless Ange knows something we don’t about reinforcements in Jan he better wise up to this fact ASAP. My guess is we’d be at least 4-6 points better off already Away from home adopting a better balance in midfield
 

Dakes

DNA of the Tottenham
Jan 28, 2020
2,662
8,909
It was shit, we were outworked and outfought. But this isn't an Ange specific issue - it's been this way as long as I've been following Spurs and I'm 51! We've struggled against teams who get in our faces, give us no time, put a boot in etc - it's the main reason we've never done well in the Europa despite being the "better side" so often.
Good points. And when last have we seen a Spurs side that gets in the opponents' faces, give them no time and put a boot in? It was the Poch hay days. This is what we lack most so often - grit
 
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jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
4,213
6,612
What is a “clutch” game?
A very consequential game, not just for us, but for the season as a whole. Like the latter stages of cups and "6 pointers" at the top of the table. We used to play in games like that under Poch, for example. Not since then unfortunately. And even if you fall short in clutch games, you're still doing something right to get there, doing better than nearly all others in the competition.

Most of our games are run of the mill now, season after season. Barely matter to us, let alone mattering to the outcome of the competition. Unless the players attitude adjusts, we're just going through the motions.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
11,190
37,044
Interestingly I think Sarr is becoming more important as we go on as he is the only player we have in the squad with the engine required to do the necessary running in the centre of midfield and I think he should be starting a lot more than he currently is. Against certain teams at home using Deki and Maddison together will work great but for the majority of games I think it's madness to play that way. I really hope Ange is starting to realise this as well.
 

For the love of Spurs

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
4,216
14,477
I've stayed out of here up to this moment. I've seen multiple pages have been added and can imagine the messages.

Yesterday was a truly horrific display from our players. I was literally shaking my head in disbelief that they just could not pass the ball to eachother. This wasn't something that Palace were particularly stopping, because multiple times our players had time and just continued to pass directly to the Palace man.

Van de Ven was truly horrendous all game. I love the guy but he had an absolute nightmare and the goal was on all him & the pussy footed tackles at the back post. Romero, Porro & Udogie were not much better and because all 4 of them started so poorly it really set the tone for the entire game. Do I think Ange missed a trick with playing Bents or Sarr instead of one of Kulusevski & Maddison, in hindsight yes I think he did & hopefully going forward in our away games we will shore up our central midfield options.

The move of Kulusevski central has been both brilliant and troublesome because we basically now have 2 attacking midfielders. When it works it will look brilliant like against West Ham, however the opposite will happen a fair amount of times. Ange is going to have to make a very tough decision & decide which player is best for which game as I truly don't believe you can have both in the same team.

Palace were rubbish yesterday, looking at the game we were abject, probably the worst performance we've had under Ange yet we still hit the post & their keeper made a worldie from Maddison. There has been talk in the Scouting Thread about what is required and for me, another RW with a different profile is desperately needed. Johnson will have good moments but in general if he doesn't score he isn't really involved in the game and yesterday with young Mikey on the left we looked a bit impotent. We don't really create a whole load of chances for Solanke & again that falls on the responsibility of the wide men.

To play the way Ange wants we have to be insanely clinical, much like Arsenal are at the minute, they get a chance & they score it because they do not create that much as a team. Someone like Mbuemo coming in would be a very very good start in my opinion as he is as clinical as almost anyone else in the league (bar Haaland of course).

This is where the loss of Kane is so big. We could put out any side, play badly and still beat Palace 2-1 with a Kane finish and then Kane coming deep and putting a through ball for Johnson or someone else to finish.

Arsenal have played badly a lot the past season or so but Saka is always there to bail them out. World Class players make a huge difference to results.
 

mattspur1

Well-Known Member
Apr 8, 2005
1,435
1,772
Without repeating what everyone is saying here. You can't just have one way of playing, which is terrifyingly easy to concede goals. I want nothing more than Ange to succeed however, he is the creater of his own downfall.

Before yesterday's game, Glasner came out and said 'we will get chances.' We are to predictable.

Secondly, the amount of balls that go over or through our high line makes our centre backs especially, subject to danger. I mean this in the format of injuries, as we have to constantly turn and chace a striker. Also, yellow and red cards, as we saw yesterday with VDV, he had a slight touch on their runner and could quite easily have been sent off.

To me, the opposition have a head start due to the above, as it seemed for Palace yesterday. Playing us yesterday seemed like just what Palace & Glasner needed.
 

felmani26

SC Supporter
Jan 1, 2008
26,811
52,689
Best opportunity is Europa League as competition is relatively poor
The best opportunity is and always will be the League Cup having to win 5 games against teams who will heavily rotate.

However Europa League is where we need to concentrate our efforts though this season and prioritise.
 

zepstar

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2005
654
1,200
Ange should get the season, certainly. In fact, he should probably get his contract. Nothing about the last 20 years tells me that the silver bullet of a manager is out there just waiting and able to bring success to this club. You might expect me to add the common refrain ‘not under this ownership, anyway’ after this, but I won’t.

I do think he should do two things though, because they’re awfully grating and put me off:

1. Don’t look at the floor when speaking to the media, look at your interlocutor and therefore, us
2. Stop being mardy. It’s not assertive. It’s not protective. It’s churlish, and it comes across that way.
 

spurs mental

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2007
28,327
60,430
Van de Ven was truly horrendous all game. I love the guy but he had an absolute nightmare and the goal was on all him & the pussy footed tackles at the back post.
Sorry, and it's not really for this thread but no, it wasn't all on Van de Ven.

It started with Udogie holding onto the ball for too long which invited pressure. Romero then trying a casual chipped pass across our own goal to Van de Ven was next, he could have just lumped it forward and played us out of any bother. The touch from Van de Ven is awful. And then the rest is a calamity.

It does bring me on to my next question though, why don't we hoof it long when we're under pressure? We actually started doing it second half, so why not a bit more? It eases things completely, it might lose the ball but our midfielders and attackers are more than capable of pressing opposition defenders and winning the ball high up the pitch anyway.

This constant fannying around with the ball at the back is costing us every game. This is yet another goal conceded from us making an error rather than good play by the opposition.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
11,190
37,044
Ange should get the season, certainly. In fact, he should probably get his contract. Nothing about the last 20 years tells me that the silver bullet of a manager is out there just waiting and able to bring success to this club. You might expect me to add the common refrain ‘not under this ownership, anyway’ after this, but I won’t.

I do think he should do two things though, because they’re awfully grating and put me off:

1. Don’t look at the floor when speaking to the media, look at your interlocutor and therefore, us
2. Stop being mardy. It’s not assertive. It’s not protective. It’s churlish, and it comes across that way.
I agree Ange should at least be given this season and I hope he gets more than that because I really love what he is trying to do. He needs to adapt though and make further tweaks to the way we are set-up though. He has shown he can do this but he needs to keep doing it - he also needs to be given the right players which is probably out of his control.
 

felmani26

SC Supporter
Jan 1, 2008
26,811
52,689
I'd get rid of both Biss and Bentancur for a solid DM that fits Ange's system. Gray as the option/rotation.
Not suggesting that you are insinuating this from above but getting a 'solid DM' isn't the silver bullet to our defensive woes.

Our shape without possession on the quick transitions and laissez faire attitude instilled in our defenders isn't going to be resolved by having prime Ngolo Kante plonked in a single pivot.

Bissouma and Bentancur haven't been the root cause here and would suggest it starts further up the field with the likes of Maddison, Johnson, Son et al and manifests with our defence routinely out of position.
 

hughy

I'm SUPER cereal.
Nov 18, 2007
33,248
62,054
Putting yesterday's absolutely abysmal performance aside I do think we're improving as a team if you look at us over the course of the season so far. Despite an awful defensive performance it's still worth remembering that only 3 teams have conceded fewer than us this season. I would fucking well hope we'll never see another game where our entire back-4 seemingly can't make a single 10 yard pass.

Our away form is a huge concern, and there is no getting away from that, but I think this is where Ange has to learn to become a bit more flexible. He just doesn't seem to be able to adapt in away games when we're up against it like he is able to in home games.

I don't believe we're suddenly going to shoot back up the table, but I also don't think there are that many "great" teams this season who will pull away from us. This weekend felt fucking rough, but with Villa, Brighton, United and Newcastle all dropping points I'm happy to put yesterday's performance down as "one of those days", and hope we get a response in the cup against City and again against Villa.
 

Albertbarich

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2020
7,263
28,071
I think yesterday was the worst I’ve seen us play under Ange, sure we have capitulated before and conceded soft goals but yesterday was so so poor, lacked all fight and urgency.
But I’ll maintain that because of that shit transfer window we’re going to have these inconsistent times.
At the start of the summer we all thought we needed a dm. The club decided that Archie gray could fulfill the role except it seems not yet so we have essentially brought a back up right back for 40 million. Meanwhile the two deepest lying central midfielders are no more defensive than our attacking ones and both have huge weakness’ in their game. Imagine we had gone all out for Paulhinia and beat Bayern to him. He would have stopped so many issues we face. Just an example as he almost certainly would have chosen Bayern but somebody experienced, physical and that enjoys defending in that role would make a world of difference.
Udogie looks knackered and again we decided we didn’t need any cover whatsoever on the left side of defence, a total neglection of duties, especially with a gruelling European campaign and now we can’t rest him.
Our biggest hope in our front three now is a 17 year old. We only have one right winger and he barely gets involved int he build up and is a confidence player and the cheap option we went for on the left has even less confidence than me jna nightclub at 18.
So we’re left with a paper thin squad as the two youngsters we gaslighted ourselves into thinking would strengthen us aren’t getting anywhere near the premier league team and the club has decided that we’re happy to write the season off for the future.
The trouble is this policy will likely mean another manager loses his job and he will do so as we have the same debates about who decided to buy the wrong players or no players in some cases.
It could have been so different. Buying two more established players im the summer would have made the world of difference but that’s the point. The club doesn’t really care about winning. Sure it wants to be in that top six mix, ideally top four but beyond that it’s not important. Ange clearly does though, you can see the hurt it he is fighting a massive uphill battle with this ownership and the squad he has.
 
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