Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[JAYSTAR]

I've had a revolutionary idea guys!! Basically, we get ahead in a game, say 2-0, then instead of going crazy trying to score more goals, we actually drop back deeper and actually defend against the players trying to score against us instead of just standing in lines or vacant spaces... So that means there's no high line to run in behind and there's always someone nearby their players so we can tackle them or head the ball away if they do get through....
THEN!! watch this guys, we counter attack and catch teams on the break to score our 3rd 4th and 5th goals!! Great hey?! I really reckon this could work... COULD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ANGE?!?!?!?

 

[HildoSpur]

For all this talk about Levy 'yet again' hiring a manager who want only a certain type of player for their system I'd love to hear which top managers are not like this because I can't think of a single one?

 

[Ledley's Right Foot]

Agree with alot of what you say here but we're actually level on points from last year.

2 points up with the United win but we lose those points in the Leicster game if you swap them for one of the relegated teams - we won away at all 3 last year.

Even 1 point from our next 2 games would have us up though as we lost the corresponding fixtures (W.ham and Villa H) last year.

Got it...I mean, to distract everyone from the largely depressing narrative this thread has taken (I hate it when we lose just before the international break) I'm gonna be pedantic and debate the minor points with you

I only mentioned the last 5 games, not the season but also, Leicester is not a like for like replacement with last seasons relegated teams (some of the worst teams to ever come up). Leceister are 16th right now, so par with Brentford last year - a 2-2 draw away. I don't know why I say par, I hate golf.

Anyway, like you say, some wins against West ham and villa will be more telling on the progress.

Back to Ange, I like what he is doing. I can see the progress and i can also see the limitations. We have a top 4-6 squad...not a title challenging one, not yet. We need a lot of these youngsters to become top drawer before we can hope for that...and for these individual errors to be coached out...maybe another year or two. In the meantime. Ange is slowly fixing the so many problems we have. The last is always the hardest: belief in what we are doing. For the players, so they can fight through games like Brighton. And for us but he needs to be the Messiah to fix that for a lot of us...it's hard to really believe when it's been 60+ years since a league title.

In the meantime, I'm really enjoying the ride...starting to get the feeling we are going to destroy West Ham...like 5-0 destroy, players and coaches are going to be angry. They'll make it right.

 

[RuskyM]

I've had a revolutionary idea guys!! Basically, we get ahead in a game, say 2-0, then instead of going crazy trying to score more goals, we actually drop back deeper and actually defend against the players trying to score against us instead of just standing in lines or vacant spaces... So that means there's no high line to run in behind and there's always someone nearby their players so we can tackle them or head the ball away if they do get through....

Literally none of the goals on Sunday were because of the defence being too high or too few players being back.

 

[idontgetit]

The Brighton result had pretty much fuck all to do with high lines. Goal 2 their CB even walked the ball to the half way line to start the attack.

 

[Styopa]

For all this talk about Levy 'yet again' hiring a manager who want only a certain type of player for their system I'd love to hear which top managers are not like this because I can't think of a single one?

It often feels like we are on an endless quest to find the perfect manager - a mythical figure who ticks every box. I think the ideal Spurs manager would look something like this:

1. Work with the players the club provides- The club operates under a clear financial model, meaning the manager often won’t always get the players at the top of his wishlist. Therefore, he needs to be someone who can maximise the talent at his disposal without constantly pushing back for more resources.
2. Be more than Levy’s ‘yes man’: At the same time, though, this ideal manager must also stand up to Levy, while, of course, not upsetting the delicate balance of the boardroom.
3. Take full responsibility for the players he ‘approved’: Once the manager gives his nod of approval on a player, regardless of the circumstance (whether he was first choice, second choice, third choice, a youth prospect etc) he’ll need to own that decision entirely. No blaming the recruitment team or the board if the team isn't performing- he approved all signings.
4. Imprint a style of play so the club has its own identity: This manager must have a crystal-clear footballing philosophy that he can imprint on the team, transforming them into a side with an identity as recognisable as Barcelona’s tiki-taka or Klopp’s heavy metal football. This style has to be bold, exciting, and true to ‘The Tottenham Way’.
5. Adapt that style from match to match and in-match: But of course, this carefully crafted style can’t be rigid. Our perfect manager must also be a tactical chameleon, switching formations depending on the opponent. One week he’s got the team pressing like Klopp’s Liverpool; the next, they’re shutting up shop like a Mourinho masterclass. And don’t forget about in-game adaptability. Down 1-0 at halftime? Time for a tactical revolution.

I have no idea whether such a manager exists. I have never seen one at Spurs, though.

 

[RuskyM]

The Brighton result had pretty much fuck all to do with high lines. Goal 2 their CB even walked the ball to the half way line to start the attack.

Like, this is the first goal.

This is the second (Romero can't be this sloppy ffs).

This is the third.

You can *maybe* argue the high line contributes to the first because the defenders are running back but we've still more than enough players to cover. The other two are just fucking abysmal, lazy defending. Three players are around the winger and he still crosses it in - there's four defenders and just Welbeck in the box and he still gets there first.

 

[Timbo Tottenham]

The Brighton result had pretty much fuck all to do with high lines. Goal 2 their CB even walked the ball to the half way line to start the attack.

Yup, I said immediately in the second half that we had dropped deeper.

 

[idontgetit]

Yup, I said immediately in the second half that we had dropped deeper.

I think it was also that Brighton changed their shape and adapted to our press and on-the-ball movement. There was just so often in that second half where we had the numbers in the right areas but they never got anywhere near their marks, while Brighton were always on top of our passing lanes. That created a confidence spiral e.g the CB's need to trust the forwards to press if they're going to step up and the forwards need to trust the people behind them to follow up the press or they'll just be passed around like headless chickens. Same going forwards, if the striker doesn't make the run the midfielder won't make the pass and if the pass isn't made the striker won't make the run. Brighton changing shape, consciously or unconsciously, instigated that spiral.

We then failed to adapt again. Partly it needed leaders on the pitch to step up and bollock the team. Partly it needed some individual leadership, a huge tackle from a defender or a striker pressing the keeper like crazy and forcing an error, to gain some momentum. Partly it needed some leadership from the side of the pitch. None of those things were there and we crumbled.

 

[Albertbarich]

It often feels like we are on an endless quest to find the perfect manager - a mythical figure who ticks every box. I think the ideal Spurs manager would look something like this:

1. Work with the players the club provides- The club operates under a clear financial model, meaning the manager often won’t always get the players at the top of his wishlist. Therefore, he needs to be someone who can maximise the talent at his disposal without constantly pushing back for more resources.
2. Be more than Levy’s ‘yes man’: At the same time, though, this ideal manager must also stand up to Levy, while, of course, not upsetting the delicate balance of the boardroom.
3. Take full responsibility for the players he ‘approved’: Once the manager gives his nod of approval on a player, regardless of the circumstance (whether he was first choice, second choice, third choice, a youth prospect etc) he’ll need to own that decision entirely. No blaming the recruitment team or the board if the team isn't performing- he approved all signings.
4. Imprint a style of play so the club has its own identity: This manager must have a crystal-clear footballing philosophy that he can imprint on the team, transforming them into a side with an identity as recognisable as Barcelona’s tiki-taka or Klopp’s heavy metal football. This style has to be bold, exciting, and true to ‘The Tottenham Way’.
5. Adapt that style from match to match and in-match: But of course, this carefully crafted style can’t be rigid. Our perfect manager must also be a tactical chameleon, switching formations depending on the opponent. One week he’s got the team pressing like Klopp’s Liverpool; the next, they’re shutting up shop like a Mourinho masterclass. And don’t forget about in-game adaptability. Down 1-0 at halftime? Time for a tactical revolution.

I have no idea whether such a manager exists. I have never seen one at Spurs, though.

That pretty much is the perfect manager and if he is that good then why wouldn’t he work with a chairman who will pretty much give him what he wants.

And Ange does adapt, we have seen numerous tactical switches to help , sure he has non negotiables but I’ve seen enough small changes to think he is more flexible than he gets credit for.

Ange isn’t perfect and the players, well squad probably aren’t as good as the club and the fanbase think. We ALWAYS think if the manager just made a certain switch everything would be much better, I’m as guilty of anyone not convincing myself that if only he could see this totally obvious tactics switch, like he can’t bloody see it himself !

I think we get better when we buy more good to great players. Right now I look at our players - our squad and I see a bumpy road ahead because it’s not as strong as the club seem to think.

 

[flying_dutchman]

Like, this is the first goal.

View attachment 146327

This is the second (Romero can't be this sloppy ffs).

View attachment 146328

This is the third.

View attachment 146329

You can *maybe* argue the high line contributes to the first because the defenders are running back but we've still more than enough players to cover. The other two are just fucking abysmal, lazy defending. Three players are around the winger and he still crosses it in - there's four defenders and just Welbeck in the box and he still gets there first.

Exactly, well said.
This week Johan Neeskens died, legendary Dutch player. Famous for his hard play and amazing workrate. Famous quote from him:
Tactical plans are bullshit if you loose 80% of your personal duels.

And that's what happened second half. They outworked us, that's why Ange was angry and sad.

 

[Teegart]

I think a big issue we have is when in a settled defensive shape, the players look like they have no idea who’s supposed to be picking up which area or player.

So many times we’ve conceded and right after everyone is pointing at each other. It’s either down to virtually every player we have defensively constantly switching off, or the players legit don’t know who they should be picking up, which is a coaching issue. Either way it needs to improve.

 

[mil1lion]

We need to learn to come out both halves with the same intent every game. We've gotten better this season starting games with that intensity. This time we got comfortable with a 2 goal lead and came out slow 2nd half. Last season it was more often we had 1 good half. In fact even season before under Conte was often reliant on 2nd half performance. I think we've played well both halves against Utd, Brentford, Everton and to some extent Leicester and Newcastle. It's getting better but after 5 wins in a row we got complacent after going 2 up.

 

[TOMSPURS]

I think it was also that Brighton changed their shape and adapted to our press and on-the-ball movement. There was just so often in that second half where we had the numbers in the right areas but they never got anywhere near their marks, while Brighton were always on top of our passing lanes. That created a confidence spiral e.g the CB's need to trust the forwards to press if they're going to step up and the forwards need to trust the people behind them to follow up the press or they'll just be passed around like headless chickens. Same going forwards, if the striker doesn't make the run the midfielder won't make the pass and if the pass isn't made the striker won't make the run. Brighton changing shape, consciously or unconsciously, instigated that spiral.

We then failed to adapt again. Partly it needed leaders on the pitch to step up and bollock the team. Partly it needed some individual leadership, a huge tackle from a defender or a striker pressing the keeper like crazy and forcing an error, to gain some momentum. Partly it needed some leadership from the side of the pitch. None of those things were there and we crumbled.

A great thing about football is we can all watch the same game & view it very differently.

From my view, I don't think tactics had anything to do with Brighton winning. Yes, they changed the left-full, but the manager publicly said he didn't change tactics or team set-up, he just asked his players to be more aggressive & play with pride.

I didn't see them changing to adapt to our press, because we had no press 2nd half. We allowed Brighton time & space from kick-off, we retreated continuously & when we did engage it was half arsed.

Welbeck for one targeted Romero, he out muscled & bullied him 2nd half. Cuti didn't lay a finger, not to mind a kick on Welbeck. We were passive all over the pitch.

Honestly, I wish I thought Sundays collapse was due to tactics. Tweaking shape on the training ground is a lot easier that changing the collective mindset of a large group.

Ange looked shell shocked after the game, completely blindsided by the fact his players stopped trying. World cup winner, full internationals looking like they didn't care, no fight or spirit. I hope it was just complacency & it gives the players the slap in the face & wake up call needed to make sure it's not repeated.

Otherwise, we need a hell of a lot of new players....

 

[GioW]

Got it...I mean, to distract everyone from the largely depressing narrative this thread has taken (I hate it when we lose just before the international break) I'm gonna be pedantic and debate the minor points with you

I only mentioned the last 5 games, not the season but also, Leicester is not a like for like replacement with last seasons relegated teams (some of the worst teams to ever come up). Leceister are 16th right now, so par with Brentford last year - a 2-2 draw away. I don't know why I say par, I hate golf.

Anyway, like you say, some wins against West ham and villa will be more telling on the progress.

Back to Ange, I like what he is doing. I can see the progress and i can also see the limitations. We have a top 4-6 squad...not a title challenging one, not yet. We need a lot of these youngsters to become top drawer before we can hope for that...and for these individual errors to be coached out...maybe another year or two. In the meantime. Ange is slowly fixing the so many problems we have. The last is always the hardest: belief in what we are doing. For the players, so they can fight through games like Brighton. And for us but he needs to be the Messiah to fix that for a lot of us...it's hard to really believe when it's been 60+ years since a league title.

In the meantime, I'm really enjoying the ride...starting to get the feeling we are going to destroy West Ham...like 5-0 destroy, players and coaches are going to be angry. They'll make it right.

Ah yeah ha I'll give you that on the 5 games!

But would say that the relegated clubs would be the only ones you could swap leicster for in a results comparison otherwise it's getting messy lol.

Like the 5-0 shout ! Definitely need a reaction one way or another

 

[SA_Spurs]

the state of this thread debating 'our fragility'!!!!!! Have a read back of the comments in here & tell me about fragile? And we expect footballers that this very fragile crowd supports to be different - oh the IRONY!

There's no team that wins every game
There's no team that plays great & always wins, just like there are teams that play poorly & win. It's the unpredictability of sport
There's no team that doesn't have an off day
There's no team that was perfect from match 1, it takes time to build a formidable team that wins more than it loses
There's no coach that doesn't get it wrong (tactics, subs, game state, etc.)
There's no coach who plays the same way in every game - there are always minor tweaks or adjustments
There's no coach/team/player who can be successful without first having to go thru some pain
There's no player that doesn't have an off day / bad game
There are no fans that are satisfied with their team (rightfully, mostly rightfully so!)
There are no fans who throw their own team under the bus only so they can be right .......oh wait a minute, maybe I will reserve my right of reply on this statement!

And then there's the fragile crowd in here. We've been much better this season ...we look more polished & more importantly, we look to be progressing in the right way. Should we have more points? Yes! Should we have won against Brighton? Yes! Should we have beat arse? Yes!

But shoulda woulda coulda. Its water under the bridge ...time to move on, look ahead and worry about the next game. It can't be that we have 1 loss & we throw the baby, the bathwater, hell, we throw the entire whole house out. It's tedious and frankly, it's our own fragile mindset that filters across to the players - like a fucking collective mental heave we insist doing to validate our 'spursiness'.

 

[RJR1949]

I’ve been a football supporter for long enough to know that there are highs and lows. I even rember telling my then young son as we were walking away from the Lane after being thrashed by Chelsea that the lows make the highs seem sweeter.

But it’s very rare to be so high and then so low in one game as I felt in the Brighton game.

Must be very tough for Ange to take, especially as he unlike me bears some responsibility for it and is in a position to do something about it.

 

[jurgen11]

Maybe he needs t

the state of this thread debating 'our fragility'!!!!!! Have a read back of the comments in here & tell me about fragile? And we expect footballers that this very fragile crowd supports to be different - oh the IRONY!

There's no team that wins every game
There's no team that plays great & always wins, just like there are teams that play poorly & win. It's the unpredictability of sport
There's no team that doesn't have an off day
There's no team that was perfect from match 1, it takes time to build a formidable team that wins more than it loses
There's no coach that doesn't get it wrong (tactics, subs, game state, etc.)
There's no coach who plays the same way in every game - there are always minor tweaks or adjustments
There's no coach/team/player who can be successful without first having to go thru some pain
There's no player that doesn't have an off day / bad game
There are no fans that are satisfied with their team (rightfully, mostly rightfully so!)
There are no fans who throw their own team under the bus only so they can be right .......oh wait a minute, maybe I will reserve my right of reply on this statement!

And then there's the fragile crowd in here. We've been much better this season ...we look more polished & more importantly, we look to be progressing in the right way. Should we have more points? Yes! Should we have won against Brighton? Yes! Should we have beat arse? Yes!

But shoulda woulda coulda. Its water under the bridge ...time to move on, look ahead and worry about the next game. It can't be that we have 1 loss & we throw the baby, the bathwater, hell, we throw the entire whole house out. It's tedious and frankly, it's our own fragile mindset that filters across to the players - like a fucking collective mental heave we insist doing to validate our 'spursiness'.

spot on - changing managers at this point would extend our Spursiness..

 

[idontgetit]

A great thing about football is we can all watch the same game & view it very differently.

From my view, I don't think tactics had anything to do with Brighton winning. Yes, they changed the left-full, but the manager publicly said he didn't change tactics or team set-up, he just asked his players to be more aggressive & play with pride.

I didn't see them changing to adapt to our press, because we had no press 2nd half. We allowed Brighton time & space from kick-off, we retreated continuously & when we did engage it was half arsed.

Welbeck for one targeted Romero, he out muscled & bullied him 2nd half. Cuti didn't lay a finger, not to mind a kick on Welbeck. We were passive all over the pitch.

Honestly, I wish I thought Sundays collapse was due to tactics. Tweaking shape on the training ground is a lot easier that changing the collective mindset of a large group.

Ange looked shell shocked after the game, completely blindsided by the fact his players stopped trying. World cup winner, full internationals looking like they didn't care, no fight or spirit. I hope it was just complacency & it gives the players the slap in the face & wake up call needed to make sure it's not repeated.

Otherwise, we need a hell of a lot of new players....

I agree with that to a large extent but I still think it's more than just effort. We've seen teams adapting to our style of play after periods of total domination all across last season and it's not always a conscious change. I think the shape and tactics are an element and that element interacts with the mentality/effort side of things. Perhaps in this case it's heavily skewed to the latter, they just didn't turn up in the second half. I think we'll see periods of play across this season where what happened in the second half happens again (hopefully in shorter periods) and it will happen will the players are still making a big effort.

 

[PaulM]

I’ve been a football supporter for long enough to know that there are highs and lows. I even rember telling my then young son as we were walking away from the Lane after being thrashed by Chelsea that the lows make the highs seem sweeter.

But it’s very rare to be so high and then so low in one game as I felt in the Brighton game.

Must be very tough for Ange to take, especially as he unlike me bears some responsibility for it and is in a position to do something about it.

One of my fondest memories of being a Spurs fan was the day Chelsea dicked us 3-0 under Nuno. Went to the Number 8 bar afterwards, it was full of Spurs fans and we just danced the night away bonded by the fact that yes we were absolutely shit right then but we were all Spurs fans and as bad as that day felt, at least we were in it together and there would be better days ahead.

Being a football fan isn't all about trophies and winning.