Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[HildoSpur]

I think we have been quite unlucky so far this season in terms of points as our performances generally (bar the second half of the last game) have been at a high level. That gives me hope that we are still on the right track but we undoubtedly need to start picking up points very soon and get another run going otherwise good performances won't mean much.

 

[Tucker]

That is why I used the word ‘reasonably’ as some will believe he was backed

I‘d wager that would be a small fraction of people. Especially given the general reaction within the fanbase to this years summer transfer window. You weren’t exactly pleased yourself when you backed up what Paul O’Keefe was saying about the wage bill being lowered in the take over thread.

Glad someone is speaking out. He is accurate. But some will never accept this.

So I don’t agree for one second that he’s been backed reasonably.

 

[Styopa]

In a parrallel universe, how would Emery perform with our squad....he certainly wouldnt have this open....

Who knows really? He was deemed a failure at Arsenal and sacked 13 matches into his second season.

We finished just two points below Villa last season and smashed them at their place.

I think there are different expectations at Villa, or there were when he took over. That creates a different working environment and conditions than he got at Arsenal or what he might have encountered here.

 

[Trix]

Yeah I don’t think it’s by any means certain that we have the sixth best squad in the league. City, Arsenal, Liverpool, and Chelsea all have stronger squads.

It’s up for debate if Villa, Newcastle, and United have as strong or stronger squads than us too.

Top eight at the very least I’d say, top 5 at the most. As far as squad strength goes.

It’s ludicrous to suggest he was “backed” this summer, we signed a good striker and a bunch of teenagers. Even last summer was mostly a window of signing potential.

Ange signed off on every single one of them knowing the team needed to progress. I just can't see a get out clause at the end of the season when he tells Daniel he got him the wrong players to do so.

When Ange came in countless people on here, and elsewhere kept saying he was exactly what we needed because he was a miracle motivator and his philosophy was incredible, I wasn't overly keen because that is not what we needed. Now all of a sudden it's all Conte-esque in that apparently he needs the exact types of players to make it work. You can all look shocked when I tell you I've been saying this for the last 6-7 years. I said Mourinho would struggle without getting exactly what he needed, that Nuno would struggle when Levy wouldn't get his targets, that Conte's system required certain player types that he never got and so it wasn't his fault, and now here we are again. We've hired another system based coach that requires xyz and abc just won't work. I still say now had we pushed the boat out for Conte or Jose to get them what they asked for we wouldn't now be sitting here saying bemoaning the length of time we've had no trophies. Yes, Jose and Conte were prickly and threw the players under the bus, but hey if I'd taken a new top end position with a company I'd be pissed too if I wasn't given the tools to do the job. If people think this is different because Ange plays more attacking football than the others, it isn't! Without progress, and by that I mean quantifiable progress, we will be back on the manager hunt come the Summer imo.

 

[Albertbarich]

Yeah I don’t think it’s by any means certain that we have the sixth best squad in the league. City, Arsenal, Liverpool, and Chelsea all have stronger squads.

It’s up for debate if Villa, Newcastle, and United have as strong or stronger squads than us too.

Top eight at the very least I’d say, top 5 at the most. As far as squad strength goes.

It’s ludicrous to suggest he was “backed” this summer, we signed a good striker and a bunch of teenagers. Even last summer was mostly a window of signing potential.

I’ll get mocked etc because of their terrible start but West Ham aren’t far away quality wise either. Paqueta (incoming ban aside) is top quality as is kudus, Bowen would fly under Ange and they have two decent strikers. Not going to go through the squads but just saying they aren’t a million miles away.

We look at these clubs and laugh at the thought but in reality with the money going around a lot of clubs have very very good squads and we can’t afford to stand still.

I feel like we put all our eggs in the building for the future basket. Now long term people that like levy may call it a master stroke if bergvall and or gray go onto be 100 million plus players but right now it could well cost Ange his job and could mean another season written off.

As I said before i think the squad is currently performing to where it should. Of course it’s inconsistent as it’s so young and if we have any sort of injuries we were going to struggle and sure enough we are.

Another issue with building to the future is presuming that everything else will stay the same. The rumours about Romero won’t stop, now Porto is making noises and then you have an ageing and declining sonny.

That summer window has frustrated me so much

 

[Gb160]

Have we conceded from a set piece aside from the Arsenal game?

No. I still get nervous at every set piece but I think that's lingering PTSD from that horrible spell last season when we conceded from set pieces for fun.

 

[RuskyM]

The issue with the concept of “backing” is it’s so vague that it can mean anything. imo the only real measurable way to back someone (as in showing trust in them) is through investing your time with them - Conte definitely didn’t want that, Mourinho didn’t seem to either. Besides, both of them spent a fortune at other clubs and still complained they weren’t supported. Difference for me isn’t only playstyle, it’s that Ange clearly wants to be here.

fwiw I think we’ve got probably the 5th best team in the league and I think that’s probably where we’ll finish.

 

[TOMSPURS]

Can debate the extent of the backing all day long.

Its still within the 6 best squads in the league

Ange has always been very clear, any player brought into the club has been signed off by him. All signings are his responsibility. I'd imagine if we fail to qualify for Europe next season, Ange will expect to be sacked.

For me the biggest issue Spurs have had for a long time is real accountability. It always appears that the only person ever held accountable is the manager. Conte is his rant touched on it. Results like last Sunday are accepted as part of football...move on with the same players, maybe different manager.

I think the biggest decision the gooners got right was backing the manager when he wanted rid of their captain, Aubameyang, at a time when they were struggling for goals & wins.

Whether people blame Ange for being tactically inept & not making subs, the players were awful 2nd half on Sunday. In my opinion, Cuti as captain, went completely missing & not for the 1st time. I can't see a scenario where IF Ange decided to make a huge call & tell the board that Cuti needs to go in January, that Levy would back him & do whatever's required financially to make it happen.

Cultural change within an organisation, has to start at the very top. I'm not sure our board ever want real change.

 

[ajspurs]

I firmly support giving him time, at least a third season unless there’s a complete collapse. However, I agree about thoroughly assessing his performance sooner rather than later- even if that's just to reassure ourselves that he is the right man.

We can't enter the summer lacking confidence in him without having proper continuity plans in place. It’s crucial that we have a clear direction. Being in a state of uncertainty—where we hesitate to fully back him due to the possibility of a looming dismissal—won’t help anyone involved. We don't want a situation like ETH at Man U or the Nuno summer debacle.

100%. If we don't have the confidence to back him as sufficiently as we can come the summer then we may as well sack him.

I would still massively question the logic behind sacking him if we finished 5th/6th though, depending on the circumstances. Same position or close to last yet with Europe this time around, clearly not better than at the very least 3 other teams in the league, Chelsea an unknown quantity but spent in the summer to have a ridiculous squad and we bought just one player who could impact our starting 11. It really shouldn't be a black and white situation in that regard as there are so many instances that can constitute to signifying improvement irrespective of such a finish.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

I’m making a guess here but I reckon Trix is implying finishing 8th - 9th and being out of Europe means no trophy wins either, because if we finish 8-9th and win a cup we’re in Europe.

For what it’s worth I’ve said it recently and I’ll say it again I think we will finish anywhere between 8th and 14th this season and I base that on our league form since the turn of this year. I don’t see us as being consistent enough to be higher, I know we finished 5th but in my opinion what got us that high was the excellent start before it all fell apart at home to Chelsea.

The wide variation of 8th to 14th represents how inconsistent I think we will be in the league, there will be bumps in the road it’s just a case of how many. I don’t see how this team in its current form suddenly develops a mental toughness to see games out consistently with the personnel we have and with so many youngsters to get us higher than 8th. By all means disagree if you want but I’m calling it how I see it.

I believe with a bit of luck we win a cup and I reckon there’s a better chance of us winning one of the cups we’re in than finishing higher than 8th unless something drastically improves with our metal toughness and game management and consistently seeing out and repelling teams and not leaking goals when intensity drops.

Why I say luck in the cups, is because with a bit of luck the shit show games where this team crumbles doesn’t happen in a knockout game of a cup. It happened twice with Man Utd who won the League Cup and FA Cup in successive season by also putting in some awful shit show league games where they were inconsistent and they scraped by against Coventry in that Semi by luck and the sheer seat of their pants. They were also fortunate that Liverpool had an off day didn’t kill them off a round earlier when Man United were out for the count in the first hour but just about hung in there and Man United landed a couple of knock out blows late on in front of a home crowd. Maybe we will get lucky in a cup.

Since the 10 it’s 35 PL games with 50 pts. Prob 9th in a full season. It’s the Europa or bust.

 

[E17yid]

We’ve got a better squad than Newcastle and Villa. Back 5 pisses all over either of theirs. We have iniesta/Xavi combined in Gray. Bentancur, Kulu, Maddison is better than most of what those slags have got. A bit weak in wide areas but I’d honestly rather have Solanke than Watkins who I think is overated but Isak is decent but then we have Richarlison as back up and I don’t think either of those have that kind of depth up top. I reckon Howe or Emery would rather have our squads to be honest.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Ange signed off on every single one of them knowing the team needed to progress. I just can't see a get out clause at the end of the season when he tells Daniel he got him the wrong players to do so.

When Ange came in countless people on here, and elsewhere kept saying he was exactly what we needed because he was a miracle motivator and his philosophy was incredible, I wasn't overly keen because that is not what we needed. Now all of a sudden it's all Conte-esque in that apparently he needs the exact types of players to make it work. You can all look shocked when I tell you I've been saying this for the last 6-7 years. I said Mourinho would struggle without getting exactly what he needed, that Nuno would struggle when Levy wouldn't get his targets, that Conte's system required certain player types that he never got and so it wasn't his fault, and now here we are again. We've hired another system based coach that requires xyz and abc just won't work. I still say now had we pushed the boat out for Conte or Jose to get them what they asked for we wouldn't now be sitting here saying bemoaning the length of time we've had no trophies. Yes, Jose and Conte were prickly and threw the players under the bus, but hey if I'd taken a new top end position with a company I'd be pissed too if I wasn't given the tools to do the job. If people think this is different because Ange plays more attacking football than the others, it isn't! Without progress, and by that I mean quantifiable progress, we will be back on the manager hunt come the Summer imo.

Believe he on a 3yr contract plus 1 option, so not that expensive if he did go but I’d rather he stayed and sorted our defending.

 

[mark87]

 

[Tucker]

Ange signed off on every single one of them knowing the team needed to progress. I just can't see a get out clause at the end of the season when he tells Daniel he got him the wrong players to do so.

Signing off on a player coming in doesn’t mean he’s been backed reasonably. Why would he turn down promising youngsters?

Besides which I recall one of the ITKs saying he agreed that we’d buy potential this summer as long as expectations were adjusted appropriately. Might have been you or WLB? I don’t really have time to search the numerous transfer threads right now though.

I remember thinking at the time that was something the club would probably go back on...

 

[Mr Pink]

Signing off on a player coming in doesn’t mean he’s been backed reasonably. Why would he turn down promising youngsters?

Besides which I recall one of the ITKs saying he agreed that we’d buy potential this summer as long as expectations were adjusted appropriately. Might have been you or WLB? I don’t really have time to search the numerous transfer threads right now though.

I remember thinking at the time that was something the club would probably go back on...

Thats a pretty big piece of info, dont recall any of that chat over the summer whatsoever.

 

[E17yid]

What’s great about Ange is that even if he does feel he’s been mugged off in the summer not only will he not moan about it in press conferences he’ll say the complete opposite and be very bullish about what he expects from the squad. I may doubt whether he’s telling the truth about things like whether he was backed but I don’t doubt his belief in what he’s doing and that he thinks we’ll be successful.

 

[ultimateloner]

Ange was backed. We got Solanke. CF is the hardest position to recruit and we got him a suitable one.
We didn't get him the wide-forward, so it's not a perfect window, but it's a really good one. Better than most, and certainly better than many other team's.
If Ange fails it wouldn't be due to recruitment, or Levy.

The biggest problem I see now is that key players are not playing at a high enough level consistently: Son, Madders + Romero. His responsibility is to address this. Hopefully he would.

 

[Trix]

If Ange fails it wouldn't be due to recruitment, or Levy.

Whilst I don't agree, I don't disagree either. It'll be down to both imo. Levy for employing yet another one way or the highway manager and not getting the players necessary. Also Ange for refusing to adapt to his surroundings and for taking a job knowing how we operate.

Best case scenario is of course is Ange accepting he might need to make a few tactical allowances and adjust his team to suit what we have until the young players mature a bit into his system. At the same time Levy gets in the right players required to fit this philosophy. That however will only happen over time, and it will surely be sprinkled with other kids of high potential.

Without compromise though it will no doubt follow the same path as the last few stubborn in their process managers.

Be under no illusion the only difference between Ange and Conte is how far forward they want to play, and how important possession is to them. Apart from that they are very very alike.

 

[Tucker]

Thats a pretty big piece of info, dont recall any of that chat over the summer whatsoever.

If the transfer section was open I’d have a look later when I have the time, but I definitely remember something along those lines.

 

[spursfan77]

No. I still get nervous at every set piece but I think that's lingering PTSD from that horrible spell last season when we conceded from set pieces for fun.

That's better than me, I still get nervous at every kick off!

When the ball is out of play it is respite!