Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[WiganSpur]

Lots of talk about us conceding too many goals, yet only three teams in the league have conceded fewer (Liverpool, Arsenal & Newcastle). Before last weekend, only Liverpool had conceded fewer goals than us.

Also still lots of talk about us being too vlunerable on set-pieces, but I believe we've only conceded 1 goal from a set-piece this season.

In my opinion, the most worrying thing about us defensively is that Romero (supposedly an elite defender) has been directly at fault for about 50% of our goals conceded. Had he not switched off for multiple goals, we'd have barely conceded a goal and would be fair higher up the table...without Ange being any less gung ho.

There have been several games when we didn't take our chances / couldn't create enough, which clearly isn't a result of being too gung ho. Aside from that, individual mistakes have led to goals at unfortunate moments (mostly Romero), and we've had a few poor 15-20 minute spells (e.g. against Brighton & Leicester), but have otherwise been playing well.

I think it's still a bit early to say whether the defensive numbers we're seeing (goals and XG conceded) are indicative of a positive trend or just natural deviation from the mean. I think we will have a better idea over the next 2-3 games as to how we are defending.

 

[only1waddle]

How?

Genuinely interested.

Interested in the difference between fact and opinion?

Factually the in-game management could improve in time.

Your opinion, it won't.

None of us really know which one it will be at this point.

 

[only1waddle]

I think it's still a bit early to say whether the defensive numbers we're seeing (goals and XG conceded) are indicative of a positive trend or just natural deviation from the mean. I think we will have a better idea over the next 2-3 games as to how we are defending.

IMO the biggest issue this season has been Romero checking out mentally, 50% less mistakes from our World Cup winning World class when he wants CB and we're not having half of these conversations.

 

[matty74]

We have given away some stupid goals this season . Vardy equaliser . The Newcastle winning goal . The Brentford goal in under 30 seconds . All the goals at the weekend were pretty pathetic, all 3 very avoidable.

our defending at set pieces is atrocious. Whenever we lose the ball there seems to be a massive gap between our defence and midfield

Lots to work on . Romero definitely ain’t the player of last season . Destiny also. Porre for all his enthusiasm and ability going forward gets exposed way too often .

this must drive VDV mad . Sometimes he is being forced to cover the whole back line .

It needs sorting quickly or it could be Ange downfall at spurs .

 

[Fidget]

Lots of talk about us conceding too many goals, yet only three teams in the league have conceded fewer (Liverpool, Arsenal & Newcastle). Before last weekend, only Liverpool had conceded fewer goals than us.

Also still lots of talk about us being too vlunerable on set-pieces, but I believe we've only conceded 1 goal from a set-piece this season.

In my opinion, the most worrying thing about us defensively is that Romero (supposedly an elite defender) has been directly at fault for about 50% of our goals conceded. Had he not switched off for multiple goals, we'd have barely conceded a goal and would be fair higher up the table...without Ange being any less gung ho.

There have been several games when we didn't take our chances / couldn't create enough, which clearly isn't a result of being too gung ho. Aside from that, individual mistakes have led to goals at unfortunate moments (mostly Romero), and we've had a few poor 15-20 minute spells (e.g. against Brighton & Leicester), but have otherwise been playing well.

Yeah it really surprises me that Romero has been so poor when his tackling can be so decisive and I’m wondering why.

 

[PaulM]

We have given away some stupid goals this season . Vardy equaliser . The Newcastle winning goal . The Brentford goal in under 30 seconds . All the goals at the weekend were pretty pathetic, all 3 very avoidable.

our defending at set pieces is atrocious. Whenever we lose the ball there seems to be a massive gap between our defence and midfield

Lots to work on . Romero definitely ain’t the player of last season . Destiny also. Porre for all his enthusiasm and ability going forward gets exposed way too often .

this must drive VDV mad . Sometimes he is being forced to cover the whole back line .

It needs sorting quickly or it could be Ange downfall at spurs .

Have we conceded from a set piece aside from the Arsenal game?

 

[DiscoD1882]

I’m happy to see what happens. I’ve been waiting for my entire life(50 years) to see us win the league. I’m happy to carry on for a little while longer with Ange. I like the football. I like the guy. I don’t like the defending.

trust the process. X

 

[Trix]

The point of the comparison is that unless we give anyone time we will never know. This is not a club that is ready for success at the moment. The squad has had huge turnover, we have lost tonnes of experience. It will take time to build a culture of winning again. Maybe Ange can do it, maybe he can’t, but nobody is gonna come in and make us consistent winners with this squad and this ownership,

Indeed but you need enough signs that what you are doing is going to reap rewards. It can't just be about playing high tempo front foot football, there is far more that needs to be right than that. I said I'd give him until January minimum because I think 18 months is enough to see at least what path we are on. So far I like his attacking philosophy but think other areas of our game are severely lacking this far, including Anges ability to adapt to situations. I'm still in the camp where I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as far as he's building towards something that I can't quite see, but at the same time I'm not sure this exact style of play will ever work consistently in the Premier league. It relies too much on everyone being on point all the time, and I don't think that is realistic.

I do understand the "we need to back someone at some point" train of thought, but at the same time you have to be convinced 100% it's the right man or you can't 100% get behind them. From an owners pov it's even more magnified because unless the board are 100% convinced, he'll never get the backing required anyway.

 

[Mr Pink]

Indeed but you need enough signs that what you are doing is going to reap rewards. It can't just be about playing high tempo front foot football, there is far more that needs to be right than that. I said I'd give him until January minimum because I think 18 months is enough to see at least what path we are on. So far I like his attacking philosophy but think other areas of our game are severely lacking this far, including Anges ability to adapt to situations. I'm still in the camp where I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as far as he's building towards something that I can't quite see, but at the same time I'm not sure this exact style of play will ever work consistently in the Premier league. It relies too much on everyone being on point all the time, and I don't think that is realistic.

I do understand the "we need to back someone at some point" train of thought, but at the same time you have to be convinced 100% it's the right man or you can't 100% get behind them. From an owners pov it's even more magnified because unless the board are 100% convinced, he'll never get the backing required anyway.

Thats a good and fair summary imo.

Pretty much how I see it.

Im trusting that the problems we're experiencing will become less frequent - that will mark progress for me.

Of course the problem will be if they dont, or worse become more and more exposed as opposition know all to well how to play against us.

I have real doubts that this one style /way of playing will work to get us where we want to be without some serious reallignment from Ange and his team.

Next few months will be very, very telling in terms of what direction this is all heading.

 

[Kirito]

Keep it up lads, we’ll be on 2000 pages by the West Ham game.

 

[wpmcg]

Indeed but you need enough signs that what you are doing is going to reap rewards. It can't just be about playing high tempo front foot football, there is far more that needs to be right than that. I said I'd give him until January minimum because I think 18 months is enough to see at least what path we are on. So far I like his attacking philosophy but think other areas of our game are severely lacking this far, including Anges ability to adapt to situations. I'm still in the camp where I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as far as he's building towards something that I can't quite see, but at the same time I'm not sure this exact style of play will ever work consistently in the Premier league. It relies too much on everyone being on point all the time, and I don't think that is realistic.

I do understand the "we need to back someone at some point" train of thought, but at the same time you have to be convinced 100% it's the right man or you can't 100% get behind them. From an owners pov it's even more magnified because unless the board are 100% convinced, he'll never get the backing required anyway.

I'd give him longer, the whole season. By January we won't know if he's gonna win the Europy and get us CL.

 

[SpursForever71]

Is it better than doing nothing? If the team on the pitch was the best we've got then why would we not expect them to rectify the situation.
As I said in the post you replied to substitutions can address all kinds of technical and tactical issues but that wasn't the problem on Sunday was it?
It's just too easy to say we should have brought on subs, even at two up according to some, when it's not at all clear what any of the subs would have done to change the collapse.

so not just have a bench at all then?

 

[SpursForever71]

Don't fall into that trap of saying anyone who posts criticism wants him gone. There are very very few(especially on here) that actually want him gone as of now.

In a nut shell as a person i love Ange as a person and want him to succeed. Love the attacking football we are playing. BUT not to the extent where we HAVE to stick with him, just because we cant fire ANOTHER manager. If he is not the right man (results will dictate not and not performances), then we cant be blind to that.
Like i say am loving the football when it works, but i do have my doubts long term if we cant be more balanced as a team, because we are just to easy to score againt.

 

[DogsOfWar]

He should be given at least a season as he's so well aligned with the transfer commitee.
The kids are being developed via the Europa, we've got a couple more coming in with Yang and Vuskovic and possibly Phillips/Donley.
We're still a couple of players short in the squad at LB and DM.

Next Summer the last of the deadwood will be gone and we should have a full squad of decent players.
I trust Ange to get the right players in.
And with the right players I would then expect his system to start bearing fruit, otherwise that is the time to bin him off.

And whoever comes in wont have much to do to get us close.

 

[worcestersauce]

so not just have a bench at all then?

Then how would you address all the other reasons for substitutions that I listed not to mention injuries. I think you missed the entire point of my original post.

 

[Misfit]

Barring utter disaster I want him here next season too, with hopefully (hold your breath everyone) the final major overhaul window we've needed to remake the squad in the bag. That really would be make or break, certainly in Levy's eyes I think.

Doing anything before that at the earliest is just wasting not just last season but this season but likely the season after that with more squad changes looming.

 

[Hercules]

Barring utter disaster I want him here next season too, with hopefully (hold your breath everyone) the final major overhaul window we've needed to remake the squad in the bag. That really would be make or break, certainly in Levy's eyes I think.

Doing anything before that at the earliest is just wasting not just last season but this season but likely the season after that with more squad changes looming.

You are really expecting too much. You really think say we end 9th and below, no cups, frequent losses, he will be retained? Really?

 

[Misfit]

You are really expecting too much. You really think say we end 9th and below, no cups, frequent losses, he will be retained? Really?

A bottom half finish and zero cups and yeah, he's gone. What about a disappointing 8th/9th with a good cup run though? Or is he already running on credit wrt club high-ups?

EDIT: The guy managed 5th somehow after Kane leaving and not being replaced and having 2 senior CBs for the first half of the season. It's the club's prerogative of course but demanding everyone gives it their best without doing so in return is wearing very thin.

 

[Hercules]

A bottom half finish and zero cups and yeah, he's gone. What about a disappointing 8th/9th with a good cup run though? Or is he already running on credit wrt club high-ups?

Not even that I don’t think would sustain him, and why shouid it? Backed reasonably, and regressed

 

[Misfit]

Not even that I don’t think would sustain him, and why shouid it? Backed reasonably, and regressed

The regression would be the sticking point for sure. He should have tried to tank last season a little when next to nobody was expecting even 6th place with what he was given. That strong start will end up screwing him.