Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[RuskyM]

Most of the time it comes down to the players. If he loses the players then it won't last but the players seem to love him so I don't see it happening.

Agreed. To me, it's the bigger part of the battle: there's loads of tactical wizards who fall short because they can't get their ideas across. AVB seemed to be that. Might well be a better tactical mind than most, but he couldn't get the performances out of players that didn't respect him (or just couldn't relate to him, depends how cynical you wanna be).

 

[McFlash]

If we finish 8th and win a treble I’d say there would be a dog in Ibiza’s chance he stays.

Wait, what does this even mean?

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Continuity with a manager brings success. Spending on players that suit a system you wish to play. Brings success. But it doesn’t in one or two windows. That is the comparison with Arteta. Whether you like it or not. There wasn’t a great deal of improvement for years under Arteta. But they did stick with him. And now they are all of a sudden challenging for the league. Over multiple seasons. Theres not any form of luck I. That. They have got rid of players who didn’t fit the system. And bought players who have. Where as our constant change over the last 5/6 years has seen us replaced by them? And other teams. Ange may not be that person. But let’s be honest every other manager (apart from. Espiritu) was the next saviour.

Only if it's a successful system!

 

[Misfit]

I can't help with kangaroos but there are some wallabies just down from the road from me.
It's probably best off the start small and build up @riggi

A show of overwhelming force to lift spirits. Good thinking.

 

[Trix]

Continuity with a manager brings success. Spending on players that suit a system you wish to play. Brings success. But it doesn’t in one or two windows. That is the comparison with Arteta. Whether you like it or not. There wasn’t a great deal of improvement for years under Arteta. But they did stick with him. And now they are all of a sudden challenging for the league. Over multiple seasons. Theres not any form of luck I. That. They have got rid of players who didn’t fit the system. And bought players who have. Where as our constant change over the last 5/6 years has seen us replaced by them? And other teams. Ange may not be that person. But let’s be honest every other manager (apart from. Espiritu) was the next saviour.

No, it occasionally brings success.

 

[joshua_snodgras]

We are on our 11th manager since we last won a trophy, I don't get why people are so trigger happy to pull the plug on ange, when does it stop with that approach, oh I can tell you it won't, I know we are not the most patient bunch of fans but maybe we need to be as we have proven hire and fire system doesn't work for us. Might do if you could buy the best players but we don't...

 

[Trix]

We are on our 11th manager since we last won a trophy, I don't get why people are so trigger happy to pull the plug on ange, when does it stop with that approach, oh I can tell you it won't, I know we are not the most patient bunch of fans but maybe we need to be as we have proven hire and fire system doesn't work for us. Might do if you could buy the best players but we don't...

Don't fall into that trap of saying anyone who posts criticism wants him gone. There are very very few(especially on here) that actually want him gone as of now.

 

[danielneeds]

If you twist and turn it enough you can manipulate any "footballing stats" to fit your narrative.......................


See now I've said that, I'll have to point out that is isn't true. DId you outscore the opposition(doesn't matter how you do it)?.....and how many points/trophies did you end the season with. They are the only stats I really give a monkey's about because they are the only ones that really matter, and they can't be manipulated in any way. They litterally are what they are. Yes I love to see good football but who cares if Arsenal lost 3 games in a row at the start of 21/22,? Like genuinely why are you posting such an irrelevant piece of information, like to prove what point? Yeah so what he lost 3 games in a row.

Christ I remember Fergie's first season and it was a miracle he survived it. He then went on to do miraculous things so by that logic every team that is thinking they should sack their manager because they are stinking the place out, should in fact keep them because there is a really great chance they have the next Alex Fergusson on their hands because of the similarities? No........ Why is that? I'll tell you why because hundreds of clubs all over the world since then have done that and got themselves relegated.


Look if you like Ange great, praise him up, If you don't then that's fine too. I like him but am still on the fence as to whether I want him here long term because pretty football(at times) isn't enough for me. One thing that needs to stop though is the constant comparison with Arteta because it is pointless due to dozens upon dozens of different variables. Yes he could come good like Arteta appears to have, but he could equally not, and actually go on to achieve fuck all. How Arteta has done isn't a blueprint for anything without everything else being the same too.

The point of the comparison is that unless we give anyone time we will never know. This is not a club that is ready for success at the moment. The squad has had huge turnover, we have lost tonnes of experience. It will take time to build a culture of winning again. Maybe Ange can do it, maybe he can’t, but nobody is gonna come in and make us consistent winners with this squad and this ownership,

 

[joshua_snodgras]

Don't fall into that trap of saying anyone who posts criticism wants him gone. There are very very few(especially on here) that actually want him gone as of now.

That's good I'm firmly in that camp too

 

[talkshowhost86]

Most of the time it comes down to the players. If he loses the players then it won't last but the players seem to love him so I don't see it happening.

This is definitely the thing going for him at the moment.

Not just because he's a 'good bloke' but because he genuinely seems to have built a good relationship with the squad.

I do wonder if that relationship has taken a bit of a hit after that capitulation on Sunday though.

 

[talkshowhost86]

The point of the comparison is that unless we give anyone time we will never know. This is not a club that is ready for success at the moment. The squad has had huge turnover, we have lost tonnes of experience. It will take time to build a culture of winning again. Maybe Ange can do it, maybe he can’t, but nobody is gonna come in and make us consistent winners with this squad and this ownership,

I absolutely understand the calls for 'time' when it comes to building the squad and implementing the playing style.

But time isn't going to change the in-game management issues.

 

[joshua_snodgras]

I absolutely understand the calls for 'time' when it comes to building the squad and implementing the playing style.

But time isn't going to change the in-game management issues.

But there will always be something people don't like about every manager, could be in game management or too defensive, or too attacking, or not defensive enough....lol it goes on

 

[only1waddle]

I absolutely understand the calls for 'time' when it comes to building the squad and implementing the playing style.

But time isn't going to change the in-game management issues.

That's exactly what time could do though.

 

[talkshowhost86]

But there will always be something people don't like about every manager, could be in game management or too defensive, or too attacking, or not defensive enough....lol it goes on

I would expect every manager to be able to influence a game and react to how things are playing out.

That should be the case if you are defensive/attacking or anywhere in between.

 

[talkshowhost86]

That's exactly what time could do though.

How?

Genuinely interested.

 

[Joshua shepherd]

You could say similar about Kane, who Poch, Mourinho and Conte all had the benefit of working with.

But poch has our two highest points tally’s and Conte was one point off third in fourth, so you could say it and you’d probably be spot on.

 

[WiganSpur]

And honestly you couldn't have blamed them: they were truly atrocious for a lot of 20/21. I firmly believe he kept his job because of the Kroenke's apathy rather than a conscious decision. (I'd also argue fans would've hounded Arteta out over 20/21, but maybe their home record wouldn't have been so bad if fans were there in the first place).

I think it also kind of shows that winning a trophy isn't necessarily a silver bullet that gives you a lot of grace with fans, much as we want it to be: Ten Hag suggests that, Moyes too.

I think with Arteta a lot of the time he seemed to struggle was mid season or at the start of a season initially (I remember when they got beat by Burnley and Sam Allardyce joked about being in a dogfight with them) and it always makes less sense to sack managers mid season unless there is reason to believe that they have well and truly lost the dressing room.

It might have been different in 20/21 had Arsenal started OK then crumbled towards the end of the campaign.

 

[Whitey]

Does anyone think Ange is at risk of being sacked in the very short term?

I hope not, but who knows what Levy thinks, we hope he's true to the process.....

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Lots of talk about us conceding too many goals, yet only three teams in the league have conceded fewer (Liverpool, Arsenal & Newcastle). Before last weekend, only Liverpool had conceded fewer goals than us.

Also still lots of talk about us being too vlunerable on set-pieces, but I believe we've only conceded 1 goal from a set-piece this season.

In my opinion, the most worrying thing about us defensively is that Romero (supposedly an elite defender) has been directly at fault for about 50% of our goals conceded. Had he not switched off for multiple goals, we'd have barely conceded a goal and would be fair higher up the table...without Ange being any less gung ho.

There have been several games when we didn't take our chances / couldn't create enough, which clearly isn't a result of being too gung ho. Aside from that, individual mistakes have led to goals at unfortunate moments (mostly Romero), and we've had a few poor 15-20 minute spells (e.g. against Brighton & Leicester), but have otherwise been playing well.

 

[WiganSpur]

How?

Genuinely interested.

Nobody knows for sure but I think a coherent argument would be to suggest that perfecting plan A is of primary importance and then when Ange believes the players are fully comfortable in the system then he might start to introduce one or two alternative approaches.

Not that I necessarily agree but again it's coherent to suggest that if he were to keep chopping and changing now then it may affect how quickly the players learn the primary system or muddy the waters somewhat.

Because of this I was always more perplexed by the set piece struggles as that is quite separate from style. But touch wood it does seem as though we have shown some improvement on them this season.

I think it's also fair to say that our ability to execute plan A has shown more promise this season. We are moving the ball quicker, pressing better and teams are having a harder time defending against us.