Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[E17yid]

I hate playing West Ham, always raise the game for us, it’s the early kick off too. LIVE ON SKY….. I fear it tbh.

Yeah same. And Ange’s record in London derbies is making me dread it even more. Still, it’s at home and we have a better team so should be ok fingers crossed.

 

[Styopa]

It could be that Ange is a better coach than the others in those leagues, but not as good as some of the coaches in the Prem. The same happens with players, too good for the Championship but not quite good enough for the top level of the Prem.

Look at Skipp when on loan at Norwich in the Championship, he was a star palyer not just in that team but also the league itself. When it comes to playing week in week out in the Prem he did not stand out as much, most likely due to the level of those he was up against.

Ange is now most likely up against some coaches of a level higher than he has reguallry experienced elsewhere.

We don’t know for sure yet. But to extend this analogy, even top players can face challenges when moving to a new club. Past success doesn’t guarantee future performance—just look at Fernando Torres at Chelsea. Different clubs bring different circumstances, expectations, teammates, and ownership dynamics, all of which can affect a player’s performance.

As fans, we can only hope that those responsible for recruitment at the club have done their homework and recognised something in Ange that suggests he can make that jump successfully.

Since his arrival, we’ve finished 5th and achieved victories against Liverpool, Manchester United (twice), Newcastle, and Aston Villa, while also drawing with Arsenal and Manchester City. We can be inconsistent and look poor at times, but it doesn’t seem like Ange is completely out of his depth.

 

[mil1lion]

It's the shared commitment to minismise goals against I'm concerned about. I think the style will always be that you must win a fair share of one-v-one duels, including in our final third. That's by design as such - not that players are out of position, but you're expected to treat the covering run/chase to intercept their chances with as much gusto as a forward run. We're not going to be doubling up in defence as such, so the pressure on the ball has to be man-to-man, including the foot race backwards from our high line. All the way to our shot stopper because we accept we'll get caught out at times. But the half hearted 'tackles' against Brighton weren't about positioning, it was about intensity and conviction.

So the contagion of flakiness - in general as a culture at Spurs and within this group during a game - is really concerning as certain casual tackles start creeping in, or wild lunges, or ball watching, etc. And it all comes back to that leadership and mentality issue.

I wonder though if it's in part down to Ange drilling into them to press forward and always attack. They're therefore not being trained with the mindset to get back. It's like the opposite of Jose and Conte where they were always sitting off and we got too deep.

 

[SpursSince1980]

I’m hearing better, more ruthless in attack. Better at controlling games. Greater pragmatism. And greater defensive organization. Things a fair few would like to see, but are worried he isn’t capable of two of those things. Sounds to me that we need a unicorn manager!

But based on all the criticism of Ange’s flaws… in particular his ‘stubbornness’, you will not see the above come to fruition any time soon.

I don’t think the board will sack him, if we have an up and down season. But loads of fans will want him gone. I think 5 to 10% already believe he can’t succeed due to his limitations, regardless of additional players.

So, who could do better than him and is gettable by Jan or next summer? Frank? Amorim? Nagglesmann?

Hope it doesn’t come to that, but can hear the early murmurings of discontent building in the air.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I’ll punch a kangaroo if we lose that.

 

[riggi]

I hate playing West Ham, always raise the game for us, it’s the early kick off too. LIVE ON SKY….. I fear it tbh.

Where do you find a kangaroo at shot notice?

Colchester zoo I reckon.

 

[E17yid]

I’m hearing better, more ruthless in attack. Better at controlling games. Greater pragmatism. And greater defensive organization. Things a fair few would like to see, but are worried he isn’t capable of two of those things. Sounds to me that we need a unicorn manager!

But based on all the criticism of Ange’s flaws… in particular his ‘stubbornness’, you will not see the above come to fruition any time soon.

I don’t think the board will sack him, if we have an up and down season. But loads of fans will want him gone. I think 5 to 10% already believe he can’t succeed due to his limitations, regardless of additional players.

So, who could do better than him and is gettable by Jan or next summer? Frank? Amorim? Nagglesmann?

Hope it doesn’t come to that, but can hear the early murmurings of discontent building in the air.

Hard to say isn’t it. I think if he finishes outside the European places he’s gone. He’s on a 4 year contract and I would imagine the expectation was that he would replicate the sucess he had in Oz, Japan and Scotland over here. He’s a short term manager who specialises in rebuilds who has emphasised very recently that he wins things in his second year.

Maybe he has conversations with Levy this year where he says look we’re still on the right track but it’s going to take me longer to get there in the prem compared to my other clubs and Levy decides to stick with. That will be a lot easier to do with a 5th/6th place finish but I think if he finishes outside that he’s toast. I think Levy would’ve been expecting CL football for next season or at the very least would’ve expected us to be in the running for it and a lower league finish in his second year (which by his own admission is when things start to gel) will count against him.

The things going for him, though, are he’s cheap, he doesn’t cause any issues/public turmoil, he’s working with the academy and young players and he’s someone who appears to work well with Levy (for now) so not inconceivable that he stays for a third year even if we finish 8th or lower.

 

[mil1lion]

The problem he faces is that if he loses against West Ham next up I think that will be 9 London derbies with no wins but more importantly he would’ve lost @riggi and it’ll just be a matter of time before he’s sacked, or dead.

He just beat Brentford like 2 weeks ago

 

[E17yid]

He just beat Brentford like 2 weeks ago

Brentford ain’t a London derby. lol.

Nah, fair play. 1 in 9.

 

[Tucker]

Brentford ain’t a London derby. lol.

Nah, fair play. 1 in 9.

And the 4 wins against Palace, Fulham, and Brentford last season.

 

[E17yid]

And the 4 wins against Palace, Fulham, and Brentford last season.

Maybe it was last 7 London derbies where I read that stat, or maybe I just misread it all together. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[ajspurs]

Hard to say isn’t it. I think if he finishes outside the European places he’s gone. He’s on a 4 year contract and I would imagine the expectation was that he would replicate the sucess he had in Oz, Japan and Scotland over here. He’s a short term manager who specialises in rebuilds who has emphasised very recently that he wins things in his second year.

Maybe he has conversations with Levy this year where he says look we’re still on the right track but it’s going to take me longer to get there in the prem compared to my other clubs and Levy decides to stick with. That will be a lot easier to do with a 5th/6th place finish but I think if he finishes outside that he’s toast. I think Levy would’ve been expecting CL football for next season or at the very least would’ve expected us to be in the running for it and a lower league finish in his second year (which by his own admission is when things start to gel) will count against him.

The things going for him, though, are he’s cheap, he doesn’t cause any issues/public turmoil, he’s working with the academy and young players and he’s someone who appears to work well with Levy (for now) so not inconceivable that he stays for a third year even if we finish 8th or lower.

This is what annoys me though really. I get the argument that he may finish below a position that is expected with the squad that we have, but if he's sacked I think it should be with the belief that his particular methods for whatever reason, can't take us forward, and not so much about where he finishes. In reality the expectations from Levy's perspective should have dropped as soon as he gave him next to nothing for the starting 11 over the summer.

It pisses me off because we'll do the same to the next manager too, in terms of not giving him what's really needed for the squad.

i certainly think particular tactical alterations are needed, but I'm still in the belief that this squad is sorely missing ability in key positions for this sort of football. CDM and LW/RW.

 

[jolsnogross]

I wonder though if it's in part down to Ange drilling into them to press forward and always attack. They're therefore not being trained with the mindset to get back. It's like the opposite of Jose and Conte where they were always sitting off and we got too deep.

I'm not happy with him standing idly by while we throw a game away, but I wouldn't say it's the attacking mindset that's costing us. It's that switch-off and cocky nature of the side that think it's in the bag when it clearly isn't. The guys were in position to handle all 3 goals, but they got sloppy. Just like the Chelsea game last season was going so well until they got reckless and sloppy and fucked it away.

A lot of them just earn tons of money and are surrounded by sycophants and adulation the whole time, even though they've all achieved fuck all at Spurs. That has to be rooted out, and it's clear the players can't/won't do it themselves. It's not so clear Ange will be able to, especially if he's wanting observational life lessons the whole time. And the higher ups certainly won't resolve it because they largely set the culture of flashy sporting mediocrity and flakiness that defines us.

 

[Atomic Blonde]

I think when talking about London 'derbies', supporters are generally referring to games against the London clubs we have an historic rivalry with i.e Arsenal,Chelsea, West Ham

Our record in these so far under Ange is played 7 , drawn 2 , lost 5, won 0

So 2 points out of a possible 21, a pretty poor record we really need to improve on.

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

I hate playing West Ham, always raise the game for us, it’s the early kick off too. LIVE ON SKY….. I fear it tbh.

Where do you find a kangaroo at shot notice?

I’m confident we’ll win that one to keep our mid table position alive…

 

[E17yid]

This is what annoys me though really. I get the argument that he may finish below a position that is expected with the squad that we have, but if he's sacked I think it should be with the belief that his particular methods for whatever reason, can't take us forward, and not so much about where he finishes. In reality the expectations from Levy's perspective should have dropped as soon as he gave him next to nothing for the starting 11 over the summer.

It pisses me off because we'll do the same to the next manager too, in terms of not giving him what's really needed for the squad.

i certainly think particular tactical alterations are needed, but I'm still in the belief that this squad is sorely missing ability in key positions for this sort of football. CDM and LW/RW.

I disagree slightly in that I think we’ve got a really good squad. Not perfect by any means and obviously still work to do but Solanke was a great buy and I think Gray should be playing more regularly than he is plus we had the foundations of a very good squad anyway that all should’ve been getting better/more used to how Ange wants them to play.

I’m not so sure the board/Levy will see it like that in terms of the difference between is this style/manager going to take us forward and league position, I think they’ll see it as pretty similar but I think you’re right, the question you want to ask is, is this manager and brand of football going to get us to where we want to be in another year or 2 and we shouldn’t focus to much on league position, but that obviously has limits which is why I said it’s easier to do that with a 5th/6th place finish than it is with a 9th/10th place finish.

 

[E17yid]

I think when talking about London 'derbies', supporters are generally referring to games against the London clubs we have an historic rivalry with i.e Arsenal,Chelsea, West Ham

Our record in these so far under Ange is played 7 , drawn 2 , lost 5, won 0

So 2 points out of a possible 21, a pretty poor record we really need to improve on.

Ahh yeah, that must be what I read.

 

[ajspurs]

I disagree slightly in that I think we’ve got a really good squad. Not perfect by any means and obviously still work to do but Solanke was a great buy and I think Gray should be playing more regularly than he is plus we had the foundations of a very good squad anyway that all should’ve been getting better/more used to how Ange wants them to play.

I’m not so sure the board/Levy will see it like that in terms of the difference between is this style/manager going to take us forward and league position, I think they’ll see it as pretty similar but I think you’re right, the question you want to ask is, is this manager and brand of football going to get us to where we want to be in another year or 2 and we shouldn’t focus to much on league position, but that obviously has limits which is why I said it’s easier to do that with a 5th/6th place finish than it is with a 9th/10th place finish.

Yeah I get that to be fair. I don't think the squad is any worse than Newcastle or Villa's for instance. Most likely better, but at the very least equal. I would never swap our team for theirs if offered. It's a strange one to decipher really as it's good but like said, the areas in which we're missing the required quality I don't think quite allows it to come together quite as well as it should. At least not on a consistent basis. I get the argument that someone else could possibly get a bit better out of this squad with what we have, but I'm as of now of the belief that the potential is higher with Ange if he gets the finishing touches, just based off the good foundations that I think we've shown to have.

I agree, I think there are of course limits to just how low we could finish and a position that's too low would also potentially indicate alarming issues under the surface. I just really hate the idea of sacking another manager because he's fallen short after we've once again sold them too short in transfer windows.

 

[Trix]

Why do people keep saying it doesn't matter where we finish this season? It 100% bloody matters. It makes a difference to who wants to stay, on the quality of player we can bring in, how much we can pay for them and wages, and whether or not we can give a competitive squad meaningful game time. Completely ridiculous notion that league position is irrelevant as long as there is nice football.

There's not a cat in hells chance Ange is still here next year if we finish 8th-9th/out of Europe, and you can quote me on that.

 

[E17yid]

Yeah I get that to be fair. I don't think the squad is any worse than Newcastle or Villa's for instance. Most likely better, but at the very least equal. I would never swap our teams for theirs if offered. It's a strange one to decipher really as it's good but like said, the areas in which we're missing the required quality I don't think quite allows it to come together quite as well as it should. At least not on a consistent basis. I get the argument that someone else could possibly get a bit better out of this squad with what we have, but I'm as of now of the belief that the potential is higher with Ange if he gets the finishing touches, just based off the good foundations that I think we've shown to have.

I agree, I think there are of course limits to just how low we could finish and a position that's too low would also potentially indicate alarming issues under the surface. I just really hate the idea of sacking another manager because he's fallen short after we've once again sold them too short in transfer windows.

Still early days init, maybe we can both have our cake and eat it this season

I’m hoping that the loss against Brighton will actually give Ange and the players a good kick up the arse and we’ll see a good response and go on a little run.