Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Misfit]

One problem with this sensible and logical plan. Daniel Levy.

If this is repeated and then next summer the same old shite happens, making it all for nought, I honestly will just retreat again.

 

[jolsnogross]

Ange has faced significant criticism for not intervening more during the Brighton match and I think those criticisms are valid.

However, we have a long history of choking, which is a problem that extends far beyond his tenure. This issue runs much deeper than Ange's in-game management. We never won anything under Pochettino, even though we had the best team in the league for extended periods. We brought in proven winners like Mourinho and Conte, yet neither managed to secure any silverware here, and choked in several high profile matches.

The "Spursy" label may seem a bit silly, but it highlights a deeper issue within the club that predates Ange’s management. Changing a game with substitutions feels like mere tinkering in comparison.

You could argue Ange choked vs Brighton. Ange has also yet to reach a high profile match, and yet the team is choking regardless.

This team doesn't treat a clean sheet like a reward to be jealously guarded. It seems very casual about defending our goal. It doesn't scrap to the nth degree to win matches or hold on to leads. Ange should be helping change that paradigm, rather than standing on the sideline as a helpless observer looking at the philosophical life lesson unfolding.

We've all watched that fucking lesson unfold many a time over the years. Hopefully he'll do something about it next time.

 

[nico97531]

Mitoma came off the line second half and was playing through the midfield on our right hand side, it wasn't him who put in the cross in for their first goal for example and it was him that played the pass forward for their second goal.
Mitoma went back out wide after they took the lead and started protecting it in which case I don't see bringing on Spence would have made any difference.
Bisouma would have stiffened up the defensive midfield but only alongside Bentancur so who would you have taken off and when would you have done that bearing in mind they were level ten minutes in. That was the point of my initial post which led to my response you replied to.

For me, both changes would have been made when they scored the first goal, like I said, the warning sign on our right side was there even in the first half, Ange should have been prepared to make changes on countering that problem.
Bissouma should have came on for Maddison to win back the midfield while we are still a head.

Of course you may not agree that it’s the right move but even just make changes for the sake of slowing down their momentum and give time for the players to gather themselves are things Ange could have done. What I am trying to say is that there are always things a manager can do to help his team or at least attempt to but doing nothing apart from shaking his head certainly shouldn’t be the answer.

 

[Metalhead]

You could argue Ange choked vs Brighton. Ange has also yet to reach a high profile match, and yet the team is choking regardless.

This team doesn't treat a clean sheet like a reward to be jealously guarded. It seems very casual about defending our goal. It doesn't scrap to the nth degree to win matches or hold on to leads. Ange should be helping change that paradigm, rather than standing on the sideline as a helpless observer looking at the philosophical life lesson unfolding.

We've all watched that fucking lesson unfold many a time over the years. Hopefully he'll do something about it next time.

Attack will always be the best form of defence for Ange I would imagine. The mentality needs to improve so that the players don't treat 45 minutes as job done. That is Ange's job obviously.

 

[Whazam]

I think people tend to take his comments far too literally, and I felt the same about some of his remarks on the transfer business. It's naive to assume that everything Ange says should be taken at face value. It's naive to think everything anyone says should be taken at face value.

For instance, when he says, "I don't want to get falsely rewarded," he could simply mean that he wants the team to earn their victories through merit, as that's a sustainable approach, unlike relying on luck.

As for his comments about substitutions, such as “Substitutions and all those kind of things … they are totally irrelevant to me... If you’re not competitive," he’s likely emphasising that we need to approach games with the right mindset from the start. You can’t expect a few substitutions to fix everything if the team isn’t mentally prepared. This is a mindset thing that goes deeper than making a few subs.

I think he would have gladly taken a scrappy win where we got lucky in the second half, but that wasn’t the main point he was making. He was clearly frustrated with our approach to the match, and I suspect that’s what his comments were hinting at. Ultimately, most of us agree with him — we've struggled with a weak mentality for years. Just look at our collapse in the Europa League under "mindset monster" José Mourinho, or the two-goal lead we threw away against Southampton under Conte.

I’m not saying he made all the right decisions during Sunday’s match, but it does seem like some people are eager to latch onto his every word to prove a point. For example, Ange says he’s happy with the business we did, and suddenly it’s “no excuses now.” He says we’ll always play our way, and people take that to mean he doesn’t care about winning. When he says he doesn’t want to be falsely rewarded, it becomes “he’s okay with losing, as long as it’s pure.”

This is a really great post.

 

[dannythomas]

Sorry but how do we expect a reaction from the players when the manager’s sole reaction to our shit show of a second half performance was to stand there shaking his head looking bewildered . ? How about some fist pumps and getting across some instructions at 2-1 , 2-2 and 2-3 ? How about taking off a few of the gutless and woeful 2nd half performers like Udogie, Romero, Bentancur and Werner ? Make a statement that you’re not accepting 3rd rate levels of competence and effort ? Spence, Draguisin, Bissouma and Moore all on at 2-1 . Bringing on Sarr and Bissouma at 2-3 !! Why ? Too late for that. We spent 45m on Gray and he’s not good enough to add anything obviously. Neither is Bergvall apparently. Not to mention giving Moore 7 minutes .

‘Why did we sign those players? For a long term project ? Does Ange have a track record of long term project management? No he doesn’t. He has never stayed anywhere for any length of time . 3 years in Brisbane, 1 year in Melbourne, 3 years in Japan, 2 years in Scotland . Believing he is a project manager who develops young players is not backed up by his record.

 

[only1waddle]

Sorry but how do we expect a reaction from the players when the manager’s sole reaction to our shit show of a second half performance was to stand there shaking his head looking bewildered . ? How about some fist pumps and getting across some instructions at 2-1 , 2-2 and 2-3 ? How about taking off a few of the gutless and woeful 2nd half performers like Udogie, Romero, Bentancur and Werner ? Make a statement that you’re not accepting 3rd rate levels of competence and effort ? Spence, Draguisin, Bissouma and Moore all on at 2-1 . Bringing on Sarr and Bissouma at 2-3 !! Why ? Too late for that. We spent 45m on Gray and he’s not good enough to add anything obviously. Neither is Bergvall apparently. Not to mention giving Moore 7 minutes .

‘Why did we sign those players? For a long term project ? Does Ange have a track record of long term project management? No he doesn’t. He has never stayed anywhere for any length of time . 3 years in Brisbane, 1 year in Melbourne, 3 years in Japan, 2 years in Scotland . Believing he is a project manager who develops young players is not backed up by his record.

He's not needed to see out projects at those clubs though, he's won the biggest prize and then moved up a level with each club.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think people tend to take his comments far too literally, and I felt the same about some of his remarks on the transfer business. It's naive to assume that everything Ange says should be taken at face value. It's naive to think everything anyone says should be taken at face value.

For instance, when he says, "I don't want to get falsely rewarded," he could simply mean that he wants the team to earn their victories through merit, as that's a sustainable approach, unlike relying on luck.

As for his comments about substitutions, such as “Substitutions and all those kind of things … they are totally irrelevant to me... If you’re not competitive," he’s likely emphasising that we need to approach games with the right mindset from the start. You can’t expect a few substitutions to fix everything if the team isn’t mentally prepared. This is a mindset thing that goes deeper than making a few subs.

I think he would have gladly taken a scrappy win where we got lucky in the second half, but that wasn’t the main point he was making. He was clearly frustrated with our approach to the match, and I suspect that’s what his comments were hinting at. Ultimately, most of us agree with him — we've struggled with a weak mentality for years. Just look at our collapse in the Europa League under "mindset monster" José Mourinho, or the two-goal lead we threw away against Southampton under Conte.

I’m not saying he made all the right decisions during Sunday’s match, but it does seem like some people are eager to latch onto his every word to prove a point. For example, Ange says he’s happy with the business we did, and suddenly it’s “no excuses now.” He says we’ll always play our way, and people take that to mean he doesn’t care about winning. When he says he doesn’t want to be falsely rewarded, it becomes “he’s okay with losing, as long as it’s pure.”

Great post

 

[mil1lion]

You could argue Ange choked vs Brighton. Ange has also yet to reach a high profile match, and yet the team is choking regardless.

This team doesn't treat a clean sheet like a reward to be jealously guarded. It seems very casual about defending our goal. It doesn't scrap to the nth degree to win matches or hold on to leads. Ange should be helping change that paradigm, rather than standing on the sideline as a helpless observer looking at the philosophical life lesson unfolding.

We've all watched that fucking lesson unfold many a time over the years. Hopefully he'll do something about it next time.

I don't know about that. Porro celebrates like a goal when keeping it out, Vicario likewise. I just think they're caught out of position at times and it costs us. It's more defensive intelligence lacking rathet than lacking commitment.

 

[jolsnogross]

I don't know about that. Porro celebrates like a goal when keeping it out, Vicario likewise. I just think they're caught out of position at times and it costs us. It's more defensive intelligence lacking rathet than lacking commitment.

It's the shared commitment to minismise goals against I'm concerned about. I think the style will always be that you must win a fair share of one-v-one duels, including in our final third. That's by design as such - not that players are out of position, but you're expected to treat the covering run/chase to intercept their chances with as much gusto as a forward run. We're not going to be doubling up in defence as such, so the pressure on the ball has to be man-to-man, including the foot race backwards from our high line. All the way to our shot stopper because we accept we'll get caught out at times. But the half hearted 'tackles' against Brighton weren't about positioning, it was about intensity and conviction.

So the contagion of flakiness - in general as a culture at Spurs and within this group during a game - is really concerning as certain casual tackles start creeping in, or wild lunges, or ball watching, etc. And it all comes back to that leadership and mentality issue.

 

[dannythomas]

He's not needed to see out projects at those clubs though, he's won the biggest prize and then moved up a level with each club.

Apart from the obvious answer that the Premier League is slightly different from the Australian, Japanese and Scottish leagues his record with us so far doesn’t suggest he is close to achieving the successes there. But my main point remains that there is nothing to suggest he is skilled in developing young players or in managing a project.

 

[13VanDerBale13]

If this is repeated and then next summer the same old shite happens, making it all for nought, I honestly will just retreat again.

It’s never ending mate

 

[Trent Crimm]

Or its the light bulb moment for Ange that in game management is vital, perhaps even more so when the opposotion is so clearly on top.

Ange watched it all from the sidelines and didnt react in time.

Maybe some of that post match frustration was at himself as well as the players.

Sunday was a big moment imo.

We'll either learn, adapt and improve on it, or we'll continue to have very erratic performances and results.

Its going to be very interesting the next few months because Levy will be wanting to see consistency pretty soon.

Personally I think Ange will adapt, already has improved our organisation at set pieces, he's just not to discuss it in the media.

He'll also have to handle players like Romero who are clearly not focused for the full 90 minutes, thats happened multiple times now and needs addressed.

Romero cares about 2 things. Romero and Argentina

 

[G Ron]

It’s not by design though with City. City still coming to terms with losing Rodri. With him, they rarely lose control of game or give too many chances - that shows in their goals conceded column

Agree, and they’re still unbeaten this season so it’s a poor comparison.

 

[only1waddle]

Apart from the obvious answer that the Premier League is slightly different from the Australian, Japanese and Scottish leagues his record with us so far doesn’t suggest he is close to achieving the successes there. But my main point remains that there is nothing to suggest he is skilled in developing young players or in managing a project.

I was giving you a simple explanation to your point that he's never stayed anywhere for a long time, because he's achieved what he wanted and then moved on to a different challenge.
Strength of league is irrelevant in that respect, not sure why you mentioned it.

I'm pretty certain his management of Australian youth teams and involvement in youth development there stands him in good stead.

What youth and project
History/successes did Poch have?

 

[TOLBINY]

And you never harp on about a certain ex manager of ours?

It’s all good, it just seems a little odd that you shoehorn him into so many threads.

Ok.....you responded to a question about a rebuild and I mentioned the players who had been sold and how they failed under Conte & Mourinho who had won "things of note".

Also....this is a list of things he has won choosing to play the way he is:

1. Australia National Team - Asian Cup Winners, their ONLY time of winning this trophy.
2. U17 Championship - 3 time winner with Australia U17.
3. U20 Championship - 3 time winner with Australia U20.
4. South Melbourne - 3 trophies including doing the double for the first time in their history.
5. Brisbane Roar - 2 trophies, which are their only titles in their history.
6. Yokohoma - won their second ever league title.
7. Celtic - 1 double & 1 treble, in consecutive seasons so 5 trophies in 2 years.

That list show that there is something about his style of play. If they are just rubbish league etc then everyone would do what he is doing right.....but they aren't.

It could be that Ange is a better coach than the others in those leagues, but not as good as some of the coaches in the Prem. The same happens with players, too good for the Championship but not quite good enough for the top level of the Prem.

Look at Skipp when on loan at Norwich in the Championship, he was a star palyer not just in that team but also the league itself. When it comes to playing week in week out in the Prem he did not stand out as much, most likely due to the level of those he was up against.

Ange is now most likely up against some coaches of a level higher than he has reguallry experienced elsewhere.

 

[muppetman]

It could be that Ange is a better coach than the others in those leagues, but not as good as some of the coaches in the Prem. The same happens with players, too good for the Championship but not quite good enough for the top level of the Prem.

Look at Skipp when on loan at Norwich in the Championship, he was a star palyer not just in that team but also the league itself. When it comes to playing week in week out in the Prem he did not stand out as much, most likely due to the level of those he was up against.

Ange is now most likely up against some coaches of a level higher than he has reguallry experienced elsewhere.

It's possible.

It's also possible he's the messiah and is a better coach than every other one in the Big 5 leagues.

All hypothetical until we give him a chance to show us what he can do.

What I do think, is that for where we are as a club and going through a rebuild he's plenty good enough for us.

 

[E17yid]

The problem he faces is that if he loses against West Ham next up I think that will be 9 London derbies with no wins but more importantly he would’ve lost @riggi and it’ll just be a matter of time before he’s sacked, or dead.

 

[riggi]

The problem he faces is that if he loses against West Ham next up I think that will be 9 London derbies with no wins but more importantly he would’ve lost @riggi and it’ll just be a matter of time before he’s sacked, or dead.

I’ll punch a kangaroo if we lose that.

 

[Donki]

I’ll punch a kangaroo if we lose that.

I hate playing West Ham, always raise the game for us, it’s the early kick off too. LIVE ON SKY….. I fear it tbh.

Where do you find a kangaroo at shot notice?