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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Ange In or Ange Out?

  • Ange In

  • Ange Out


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ohtottenham!

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2013
8,520
15,073
At the end of the day, what have we got to lose by backing this guy 100%? A mid table finish? Big whoop. We have tried shuffling the pack time and time again and we just end up back at the start again. We’ve got a clear identity building, and a lovely style of play. It’s not like Ten Hag at United, or Conte 2 years ago, where you could see that things were never ever going to be the way it needed to be. There is a clear direction of travel and we are improving in our performances (aberrant results aside.)

Time to dig in and back this guy. Trust what he’s doing and just go for it.
Hope the board does just that. I think most fans are backing Ange.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
34,895
162,734
Really? 100%? no concerns or worries in the slightest? I find that hard to believe.

I'm still behind him too, but 100%? no. There are definitely issues I have with some of what he does.
100%

I’ve no doubts at all about what he’s trying to do, or how he’s trying to do it, mate.
 

Gb160

Shit Show ticket tout
Jun 20, 2012
24,625
100,136
Now this may be extreme (going unbeaten and winning all our games) but it’s undeniably true that results will always, for the vast majority of people, be more important than style. Then it’s just a question of how long you as an individual are willing to put up with sub par league finishes (assuming we win no cups) in the hope that things get better over time.
Yeah I've always been of the opinion that you worry about results first and foremost, if you ever get to be consistently successful then you can worry about doing it in style.
It's the cherry on the cake.
 

specspurs

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
417
468
I agree to an extent, but I do worry that certain players are having to much to think about at times. It's easy to say it's down to individual errors but surely in any walk of life the ideal is to limit the times when errors can occur. When our press is fully on it, it works to an extent, but it's a hell of an ask to think the players will week in week out be able to do it without making mistakes. and with how we play when any individual makes a mistake it could well lead to a good chance for the opposition because we are so open.

People keep saying this criticism has been levelled at Ange everywhere he's been and he's come through it with flying colours so we should keep faith it will work here. The difference is this is the Premier league. When you make a mistake here every team has players that can and will punish you with accurate 30-40 yard passes to forwards that can and will score given the opportunity.

Again I have seen progress over the last few weeks, so I'm certainly not saying it's all doom and gloom, but if we are really going to achieve anything under Ange he has to understand that when plan A isn't working, there is more than one way to win a football match.

If we prioritise anything over a top class DM in January I will be very disappointed. I genuinely think we should be throwing the kitchen sink at one now over everything else.
Great post. 100% agree.
 

ComfortablyNumb

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,859
7,309
I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Here is a list of the players that have left Tottenham since Ange became manager:

Hojbjerg / Emerson / Perisic / Solomon (loan) / Skipp / Sanchez / Lo Celso / Rodon / Dier / Ndombele / Tanganga / Sessegnon / Gil (loan) / Winks / Lucas / Lloris / Kane.

Now the only player there that Ange would want would be the obvious in Kane. Now with those players above we won nothing with Mourinho & Conte, two managers who have a very real & good habit of winning wherever they end up. What that goes to show is that they are / were not good enough players that had to be moved on.

Let's now list the players he has signed:

Werner (loan) / Vicario / Dragusin / VDV / Maddison / Johnson / Yang / Bergvall / Odobert / Gray / Solanke.

That list shows that we have really only permanently signed two players with any long time experience in Solanke & Maddison. Vicario albeit 27 is only in his 4th season in top flight football. We have brought in a lot of young players.

Lastly, let's look at who is left of the squad he inherited:

Reguilon / Sonny / Bissouma / Richy / Udogie / Romero / Forster / Deki / Porro / Spence / Sarr / Bentancur / Davies

Again, I would say that if Reguilon, Bissouma, Forster, Richy & Davies were to leave not many people on here would be bothered.

Personally I would saying having to move on 17 players already from a squad of 25/26 would constitute a pretty significant rebuild. Then if you think there are still another 5 to go quite comfortably that is definitely a huge squad shift in little over a year. Ange has only been here for 15 months!

What we need is to buy a couple of experienced heads in vitial positions in my opinion, LB & CM being very key for me.
What has any of that got to do with Ange choosing to play an extreme form of football? Why can't he tailor his tactics to suit the squad he has? It's not as though he has won anything of note previously with his style.
 

Danny1

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
6,219
20,601
Really? 100%? no concerns or worries in the slightest? I find that hard to believe.

I'm still behind him too, but 100%? no. There are definitely issues I have with some of what he does.

Problem is if I took your second sentence literally then there won't be a single fan out there that is 100% behind their manager. Every fan of other clubs I speak to would do things slightly different which in literal terms means that they aren't 100% behind their manager.

I am so unbelievably fed up of changing managers & then having the same shit again in 18 months time. I love the way Ange conducts himself, he is a breath of fresh air in the way he talks and I, for one, am proud to have a man like him in charge of our club. He is honest, direct & hard nosed but he is also a very decent human being with the right morals. He treats everyone with respect and the way he answers questions is almost like no other.

I enjoy his way of football, I'm actually looking forward to games for the first time in a very long time. He is incorporating the younger lads very well in my opinion & he is only 15 months into a massive rebuild of the squad, as well as trying to change the mentality of the club.

When I look at our squad I think all of us are guilty of overrating a number of our players and I believe one of our biggest weak points is the base of midfield. Both Bentancur & Bissouma have all the ability in the world but just lack something. Bentancur was sensational against Utd but struggled from the off yesterday and I wasn't really surprised as he (& Biss) have that habit.

We spent big on Solanke, Gray & Odobert this year and with Vuskovic & Yang to come in, I'd like to think we will outlay the same amount (c.£150m) on the next key positions which for me would be LB & CM for starters.
 

Mooger Fooger

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2012
869
3,839
Problem is if I took your second sentence literally then there won't be a single fan out there that is 100% behind their manager. Every fan of other clubs I speak to would do things slightly different which in literal terms means that they aren't 100% behind their manager.

I am so unbelievably fed up of changing managers & then having the same shit again in 18 months time. I love the way Ange conducts himself, he is a breath of fresh air in the way he talks and I, for one, am proud to have a man like him in charge of our club. He is honest, direct & hard nosed but he is also a very decent human being with the right morals. He treats everyone with respect and the way he answers questions is almost like no other.

I enjoy his way of football, I'm actually looking forward to games for the first time in a very long time. He is incorporating the younger lads very well in my opinion & he is only 15 months into a massive rebuild of the squad, as well as trying to change the mentality of the club.

When I look at our squad I think all of us are guilty of overrating a number of our players and I believe one of our biggest weak points is the base of midfield. Both Bentancur & Bissouma have all the ability in the world but just lack something. Bentancur was sensational against Utd but struggled from the off yesterday and I wasn't really surprised as he (& Biss) have that habit.

We spent big on Solanke, Gray & Odobert this year and with Vuskovic & Yang to come in, I'd like to think we will outlay the same amount (c.£150m) on the next key positions which for me would be LB & CM for starters.
Excellent reply mate. Thanks for being constructive and discussing the point rather than allowing it to turn into what usually happens!

Some really valid points you've made. When you step back and take the emotion and heat out of the conversation after such a bad result I do agree with you. (y)
 

ComfortablyNumb

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,859
7,309
Not sure how many times he is going to say it. He is not changing.
If you’re thinking we go 2-0 up and then going to soak up pressure, I think with Ange it will be a long wait.
Plan A is the plan. Not sure if the players are buying in to it.
Then it's likely to be without Ange...

It's the players buying in to it that worries me. VdV is a fantastic defender, but if he continually gets hung out to dry, used just for his recovery pace, then I expect he'll want to find a coach somewhere else who will let him show the full range of his defensive capability.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
33,195
26,062
Really? 100%? no concerns or worries in the slightest? I find that hard to believe.

I'm still behind him too, but 100%? no. There are definitely issues I have with some of what he does.
Would you be happy replacing him then?
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
27,501
42,919
Yeah I've always been of the opinion that you worry about results first and foremost, if you ever get to be consistently successful then you can worry about doing it in style.
It's the cherry on the cake.
This is one of those debates that have been raging since Jose was head coach. I can see both sides of it. Had Conte, Jose or Nuno been successful then people would have swallowed the football. That said, I also understand people wanting swashbuckling football as a priority. I think that what most people want is for whoever is the current coach to succeed and not to have yet another change.
 

Danny1

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
6,219
20,601
What has any of that got to do with Ange choosing to play an extreme form of football? Why can't he tailor his tactics to suit the squad he has? It's not as though he has won anything of note previously with his style.

Ok.....you responded to a question about a rebuild and I mentioned the players who had been sold and how they failed under Conte & Mourinho who had won "things of note".

Also....this is a list of things he has won choosing to play the way he is:

  1. Australia National Team - Asian Cup Winners, their ONLY time of winning this trophy.
  2. U17 Championship - 3 time winner with Australia U17.
  3. U20 Championship - 3 time winner with Australia U20.
  4. South Melbourne - 3 trophies including doing the double for the first time in their history.
  5. Brisbane Roar - 2 trophies, which are their only titles in their history.
  6. Yokohoma - won their second ever league title.
  7. Celtic - 1 double & 1 treble, in consecutive seasons so 5 trophies in 2 years.
That list show that there is something about his style of play. If they are just rubbish league etc then everyone would do what he is doing right.....but they aren't.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
34,895
162,734
Yeah I've always been of the opinion that you worry about results first and foremost, if you ever get to be consistently successful then you can worry about doing it in style.
It's the cherry on the cake.
Maybe that’s where we’ve been going wrong for the last 5 years though. Focusing on results first and foremost is a short term view. That’s what Jose and Conte did, and it didn’t end well.

I actually don’t buy into the whole debate of “do you want nice football or success“ that often comes up now, I don’t think it’s a choice or that football really works like that anymore (if it ever really did.)

The best teams in the league establish an identity and go from there. All of the successful sides of the last 10 years or so have done that. Some have taken longer than others to get where they want to be, like Arsenal for example. I doubt Arteta would have survived if Arsenal had taken a results first approach and sacked him when he was 16th at Christmas. FA cup win or not, if your focused on results primarily, a manager at a top club doesn’t survive that. Klopp and Pep both instilled the footballing identity first and foremost at Liverpool and City respectively, Poch did the same here. It happens at some clubs quicker than others due to the context at play, but for me the fact remains that they all focused on playing their way, and their way alone. They didn’t compromise their philosophy in order to focus on results.

The good results followed on from following and trusting their process.

So right now, I’m not concerned about results, or form tables. I can see through our stats and the way we play that we are progressing. With time and more squad building, we’ll get to where we want to be.
 

Danny1

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
6,219
20,601
Excellent reply mate. Thanks for being constructive and discussing the point rather than allowing it to turn into what usually happens!

Some really valid points you've made. When you step back and take the emotion and heat out of the conversation after such a bad result I do agree with you. (y)

It's good to have the debate I think mate aswell. I think those of us that are really defending Ange aren't doing so against those with constructive criticism. I don't have anything bad to say about someone saying that yesterday was diabolical because we are all Spurs fans, with eyes, that can see that the second half was just atrocious and Ange rightly said its the worst defeat since he has been here.

So I understand all the emotions as its the worst way to lose. I've just never been a fan of knee jerk reactions (& thats not aimed at mate at all).
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
19,599
39,517
Yeah I've always been of the opinion that you worry about results first and foremost, if you ever get to be consistently successful then you can worry about doing it in style.
It's the cherry on the cake.
I’ve got no problem with having a manager implementing their vision straight away, whatever that philosophy may be, (even of it’s a risky way of playing) but it’s obvious that most people won’t put up with 2 or 3 years of continued underachievement in the hope it gets better in season 3 or 4. However right or wrong that is that’s just how it is these days.

The league is gone this year but I’m still hopeful of a top 6 finish and maybe 1 cup. If he can do that I’ll be signing the petition for a statue but if we finish 10th or lower (I don’t think we will) and bomb out the cups then it’s going to be hard to argue that we’ve progressed.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
19,599
39,517
Maybe that’s where we’ve been going wrong for the last 5 years though. Focusing on results first and foremost is a short term view. That’s what Jose and Conte did, and it didn’t end well.

I actually don’t buy into the whole debate of “do you want nice football or success“ that often comes up now, I don’t think it’s a choice or that football really works like that anymore (if it ever really did.)

The best teams in the league establish an identity and go from there. All of the successful sides of the last 10 years or so have done that. Some have taken longer than others to get where they want to be, like Arsenal for example. I doubt Arteta would have survived if Arsenal had taken a results first approach and sacked him when he was 16th at Christmas. FA cup win or not, if your focused on results primarily, a manager at a top club doesn’t survive that. Klopp and Pep both instilled the footballing identity first and foremost at Liverpool and City respectively, Poch did the same here. It happens at some clubs quicker than others due to the context at play, but for me the fact remains that they all focused on playing their way, and their way alone. They didn’t compromise their philosophy in order to focus on results.

The good results followed on from following and trusting their process.

So right now, I’m not concerned about results, or form tables. I can see through our stats and the way we play that we are progressing. With time and more squad building, we’ll get to where we want to be.
I agree with most of this but say our patchy league form continues and we finish say, 9th/10th and no cups but you still think we’ve progressed for whatever reason, what would be your expectations from him and the team for season 3?
 

SurreySpur82

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2015
159
335
Desperately need a commanding voice in the team to be captain/leader. We had World Cup/Champions League winners on the pitch yesterday and they should be leading example but went missing. What was missing was an experienced DM to dictate play when others were losing their heads. It's the hole in the team that needs filling most and will be expensive. Gray may become that in time but he's too inexperienced at the moment and there was no-one else on the bench who could make an impact in that area.
 

thekneaf

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
2,126
4,517
For me the issue isn't the ethos, to attack, but in the second half of that game they pressed us differently which caused us problems. Neither Ange nor the players on the pitch reacted to that until too late.

I think Ange was making a point in not changing anything, the point being the players should be able to work it out themselves. I have a slight problem with this attitude, as I do think it's the managers job to change something when things aren't working. Bissouma should have been thrown on as soon as he saw Brighton had gone man to man, and he should have been sat with a couch for 3 minutes prior to coming on with instructions for the rest of the team in how to play that front footed football against this system.
 
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