Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Fidget]

There could have been more of todays outcome last season if it wasn't for Hojbjerg.

Last season Ange did that falsely rewarding sub - and got rewarded.

Then he sold Hojbjerg and didn't care to have a new DM.

HE didn’t sell Holberg. Get a grip.

 

[YB123]

Stop reading it?

Stop replying?

 

[Fidget]

@Fidget you have clicked for my last three posts, anything to actually rationally debate or just going to continue with the sarcasm?

No sarcasm Mr Imp. All the icons are here to use and ‘informative’ is like ‘I didn’t realise this is the absolute truth’ or ‘thanks for the information’. I rationally debate with people who I think are being rational. I just think sometimes you have to chill and accept wins, draws and defeats. See prospects of sticking with a different style of management because we all have to learn from mistakes (including Ange) and see positives as well as negatives. I was born the year of the double and I’ve seen good and bad but rarely had such hope for a manager to succeed. No point me not commenting or displaying a reaction.

 

[RuskyM]

How was it in game management that cost us? They were leading within 20 minutes of the 2nd half.

This is on the piss poor attitude of the players who thought the game was won.

It's the ideal time to make a change: ten minutes into the second half where you're winning away, or in the five minutes when it's 2-2 and you're searching for calm. That's a good time to throw in someone with minimal experience. If we were so desperate that we needed any of the teenagers to save us, particularly from the strong position we were in, then that's a damning indictment on the senior players that started.

There's this notion that subs = success, but there's a reason every manager when they lose gets cited as "not making subs early enough". Klopp, Arteta, Guardiola, all of them. Ideally, your first XI should be less chaotic and more coherent, and given that we started well, the players coming out like that in the second half must be an attitude thing. That's on both Ange and the players. It needs to be a reminder that we are not good enough to assume we'll win.

 

[poc]

All went very fucking quiet for a few weeks, didn’t it? Christ.

Well Coventry was very nearly a disaster it wasn't that long ago

 

[RuskyM]

Well Coventry was very nearly a disaster it wasn't that long ago

But it wasn't. And then we won the next four.

 

[jurgen]

All went very fucking quiet for a few weeks, didn’t it? Christ.

It was a kind sequence of matches for us.. rest of October and November look pretty tasty unfortunately.

 

[yojambo]

We've only won 5 of our last 14 PL games, losing 8 of them!

Nuno was sacked on 15 points after 10 games. If we don't win 2 of the next 3 PL games i honestly think we are going to see just how committed Levy is to this rebuild / process.

 

[WiganSpur]

I think that statement from Ange about the substitutions is one of the most stupid things i have heard a manager say in a long time. I don't think it helps him either with the fans and the media. I am not ange out either but come on that is just stupid.

I like Ange but I 100% agree. I think deep down he knows it too but is trying to deflect attention away from his own incompetence.

Ange should have changed it as soon as it was obvious there was no reaction after conceding the first goal. Beef up the midfield. Get fresh legs on. Tell the full backs to put the brakes on.

Then after the game a much more coherent narrative might have been "I was really unhappy with the way we started the second half, especially our reaction to the first Brighton goal. I don't want to have to compromise on my philosophy and make these sort of changes but I had to because the players let me down early in the second half."

That way, you potentially get the result and also teach the players a lesson. And you can back up your words with actions in the next game by dropping some of the players who performed especially poorly.

 

[Mooger Fooger]

The worries for me are that Ange is saying it’s down to attitude, complacency and not matching the intensity of the opponents as a minimum (which I do agree with). I would have hoped that, after a year now of him talking about the clubs culture, this kind of thing wouldn’t be present any more. I hoped we were past that and building a new mindset. That our players had shaken off that kind of attitude.

That’s the biggest worry I have. That we are no further along than we were.

The first half was excellent. The second half was awful. I am very concerned that, even in victory we never really control the game.

 

[RuskyM]

It was a kind sequence of matches for us.. rest of October and November look pretty tasty unfortunately.

Yeah, we really lucked out by playing Brentford who scored within a minute, playing eighty minutes with 10 men in the Europa, then going to Old Trafford and Hungary. Not quite sure why we have to piss on everything good we've done recently just because we lost today.

We've only won 5 of our last 14 PL games, losing 8 of them!

Nuno was sacked on 15 points after 10 games. If we don't win 2 of the next 3 PL games i honestly think we are going to see just how committed Levy is to this rebuild / process.

The classic fourteen game benchmark!

 

[Trix]

Truth is they just done us in the second half and I doubt changes for the sake of it would have made any difference.

Truth is, you'll never know if you never try. What we do know however was what was out there 100% wasn't working for whatever reason.

 

[Joely]

That way, you potentially get the result and also teach the players a lesson. And you can back up your words with actions in the next game by dropping some of the players who performed especially poorly.

Yep. Think even as player on the pitch where you see it's clearly going massively pear shaped, at some point maybe you start questioning why the manager isn't reacting to try and address the situation.

Just hoping today is bit of an anomaly and Ange has actually learnt from it. The EPL is so unforgiving with better quality players, a 15-20 minute utterly disastrous period where you are all at sea can see the game be done and dusted.

 

[Trix]

Not quite sure why we have to piss on everything good we've done recently just because we lost today.

Agreed and we absolutely shouldn't. My criticisms, as strong as they are, are solely on that one half of atrocious football.

 

[Impspur1]

No sarcasm Mr Imp. All the icons are here to use and ‘informative’ is like ‘I didn’t realise this is the absolute truth’ or ‘thanks for the information’. I rationally debate with people who I think are being rational. I just think sometimes you have to chill and accept wins, draws and defeats. See prospects of sticking with a different style of management because we all have to learn from mistakes (including Ange) and see positives as well as negatives. I was born the year of the double and I’ve seen good and bad but rarely had such hope for a manager to succeed. No point me not commenting or displaying a reaction.

I think I am one of the more rational ones if you read my posts. Repeatedly said I love Ange and want him to succeed but also said it’s ok to call out and discuss errors, it’s what we are all here for it’s obviously not the “absolute truth”, nothing on here is because the only one who really knows why he did what he did is the manager, but as I said it’s a fans forum to discuss these things

 

[WiganSpur]

If you have Citeh's/RM's/et al squad then fine I guess but this is simply not connected to reality. There's no manifesting outcomes through sheer force of will in professional sports with all the economic and competitive disparities that occur naturally. You also have to use some smarts every now and then when needs be.

This comes across as wilful naivety and self-sabotage tbh.

Yeah you can't out-fitness and out-desire your opponent in every single minute of every single game. Especially in a competition as fiercely competitive as the Premier League. There shouldn't be a huge amount, but there has to be some element of pragmatism. No ones asking for Stellini ball, just dial things down a notch every now and then when there's too much heat in the game for our liking.

Guardiola and Arteta know this. Perhaps they do it too much such that it makes games too much of a boring spectacle, but they manage games every single week to get the results they need.

 

[midoshairband]

It’s no coincidence that we drop a lot of points in games we dominate. This style of play will surrender good chances every week and that’s proving costly so far. When we’re at our best and clinical we’ll smash teams, but often we’ll be sub par, particularly when tired after European matches. Sadly I suspect this will be a constant theme with us under Ange.

we surrender good chances, more often than not, due to individual errors.

 

[yojambo]

Yeah, we really lucked out by playing Brentford who scored within a minute, playing eighty minutes with 10 men in the Europa, then going to Old Trafford and Hungary. Not quite sure why we have to piss on everything good we've done recently just because we lost today.

The classic fourteen game benchmark!

I make it our second worst run of PL form in twelve years. Only time we had a worse run was 20/21 under Jose.

 

[jurgen]

we surrender good chances, more often than not, due to individual errors.

Does the system put players in more high risk situations where individual errors are more likely though? Of course we also saw that with Conte where our team couldn't concentrate and stay disciplined for long enough either so...

 

[Dr Know]

I haven’t read what others are saying in this thread but my 2 pennies: Stick with Ange and trust the process.