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Match Threads Man City vs Spurs - Match Thread

Match Prediction

  • Spurs Win

    Votes: 45 19.7%
  • City Win

    Votes: 105 46.1%
  • Score Draw

    Votes: 76 33.3%
  • Goal less Draw

    Votes: 2 0.9%

  • Total voters
    228
  • Poll closed .

jolegend

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2005
3,888
3,076
I really don’t understand why we continue to persist with the back and forth passing between Lloris and the back 4. It’s an accident waiting to happen.

It invites the press and if we break it, then we can build a counter attack by passing quickly through the lines. However, we broke the press just once today with this tactic and over the last couple of seasons it hasn’t been regularly effective.

Most of the time Lloris loses possession and gives it straight back to the other team. This means are defenders are very deep and invites the opposing team to attack at pace into lots of space in front of the 18 yard box. And if it’s not Lloris giving it away, it’s the defenders lumping it once they have played themselves in to trouble.

It is a very odd tactic given the limited success it has. The risk/reward factor is in favour of the team we play. If we had a keeper who had two decent feet and a technically better left back (as much as I love Rose) then we may just make it effective.

Until then I hope Poch ditches it. However, given his stubbornness with tactics I.e. diamond, sissoko on the wing, moura on the bench, no buying anyone with pace etc, then I think it’s unlikely.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
I really wish Sissoko would be given the credit he's due as a CM. Winks is not as good. He's decent, but Sissoko offers us more from the centre and should partner Ndombele. Sanchez needs to play and was poor today for the first half, but improved. Our general defending was ridiculous. All eyes on the ball all the time, no one picking up their attackers for much of the match. It was genuinely shocking. KWP was ok, but hugged in too tight exactly like Trippier started doing and was overlapped constantly because of it. Winks did not defend properly, Eriksen never defends. Lamela or Eriksen, not both. Moura should have started.
You can't really compare Sissoko and Winks completely different types of player. But you need to give Sissoko the ability to roam. Winks is playing as the deepest midfielder. I wouldn't swap them with Sissoko. Maybe Dier or Skipp.
 

TheChosenOne

A dislike or neg rep = fat fingers
Dec 13, 2005
47,870
49,700
Arlo White and Lee Dixon commentating on the game for me...
They had their tongues
I really don’t understand why we continue to persist with the back and forth passing between Lloris and the back 4. It’s an accident waiting to happen.

It invites the press and if we break it, then we can build a counter attack by passing quickly through the lines. However, we broke the press just once today with this tactic and over the last couple of seasons it hasn’t been regularly effective.

Most of the time Lloris loses possession and gives it straight back to the other team. This means are defenders are very deep and invites the opposing team to attack at pace into lots of space in front of the 18 yard box. And if it’s not Lloris giving it away, it’s the defenders lumping it once they have played themselves in to trouble.

It is a very odd tactic given the limited success it has. The risk/reward factor is in favour of the team we play. If we had a keeper who had two decent feet and a technically better left back (as much as I love Rose) then we may just make it effective.

Until then I hope Poch ditches it. However, given his stubbornness with tactics I.e. diamond, sissoko on the wing, moura on the bench, no buying anyone with pace etc, then I think it’s unlikely.

Heart in mouth every time for me.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
I really don’t understand why we continue to persist with the back and forth passing between Lloris and the back 4. It’s an accident waiting to happen.

It invites the press and if we break it, then we can build a counter attack by passing quickly through the lines. However, we broke the press just once today with this tactic and over the last couple of seasons it hasn’t been regularly effective.

Most of the time Lloris loses possession and gives it straight back to the other team. This means are defenders are very deep and invites the opposing team to attack at pace into lots of space in front of the 18 yard box. And if it’s not Lloris giving it away, it’s the defenders lumping it once they have played themselves in to trouble.

It is a very odd tactic given the limited success it has. The risk/reward factor is in favour of the team we play. If we had a keeper who had two decent feet and a technically better left back (as much as I love Rose) then we may just make it effective.

Until then I hope Poch ditches it. However, given his stubbornness with tactics I.e. diamond, sissoko on the wing, moura on the bench, no buying anyone with pace etc, then I think it’s unlikely.
I think you are confusing what is happening. We are not building from the back to 'pass through the press' we always build from the back. People press us to prevent us playing. We build attacks from the defence its just what we do. We are not very good at dealing with when teams do box us in, and I think Poch's stubbornness here is a problem.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
Well MOTD really showed our lack of tracking runners today, we don't look very well drilled, I imagine once the Arsenal game is out the way we can settle on a consistent lineup and system.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
The answer for me is that we realistically aren't quite at the level of title challengers yet. It'll be a season where Ndombele and GLC -- who are absolutely key to our future -- are bedded in and come to grips with Poch's methods and the Premier League. We're also experimenting a bit at RB and blooding the likes of Sess and Skipp.

Unlike City and Pool our project is not complete yet. It's only year one of Poch's much vaunted "next chapter" after all so I think we should keep that in mind as we set our expectations for the season. Poch seemed to say as much when he said you can't compare where we are to where City is.

Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and say City were far superior, they have to be - the money they've spent, the conditions are almost too perfect for them but that doesn't mean we're not challengers. The way we dug in an hung on for a point requires great mental strength and just because we were outplayed by City does not mean we cannot compete for the title.

Long hard season to come, take the point and run, it's a massive positive for us and that point could probably prove decisive at the end of the season.
 

jolegend

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2005
3,888
3,076
I think you are confusing what is happening. We are not building from the back to 'pass through the press' we always build from the back. People press us to prevent us playing. We build attacks from the defence its just what we do. We are not very good at dealing with when teams do box us in, and I think Poch's stubbornness here is a problem.

I agree we build attacks from defence. But you can do it much quicker and more direct than we do at times.

The only reason I can see why we play it between Lloris and the back 4 in tight areas is to draw in the opposing teams attackers. If we were concerned about the opposing press, we would just be more direct and go long.

For instance, at goal kicks, City had 3 sometime 4 players within 10 yards of the 18 yard box. They new what we were going to do, and in turn, we must of known they would press us tight. Yet we continued to do it even after getting ourselves in to trouble? Lloris is not comfortable on the ball (as demonstrated when he nearly gave it away in the 6 yard box) and it’s not natural for him to play like this so it must be a tactic to invite the opposition on to us with the aim of passing through it.

There is no other logical reason why we would persist with it. It’s terrible to watch. And once we have realised we aren’t passing our way through it, we panic and invariable lose it.

One of the solutions would be for winks or Ndombele to drop deeper and pick the ball off the centre backs and play forward earlier.
 

Obie Trice

real name, no gimmick
Aug 7, 2019
56
143
we were so bad, and to get a point was just a robbery. can't wait to get Sonny back, i feel like he will make an impact immediately!
 

Mate

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2006
1,570
3,859
That game was a carbon copy of our 2-2 draw there a few years back where they absolutely battered us from start to finish yet we somehow came away with a point. Jump in the van lads, get that peddle on the floor and don’t look back!! COYS

Ah yes, who could forget this injustice right before we equalised?

 

JAYSTAR

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2012
3,316
3,800
You can't really compare Sissoko and Winks completely different types of player. But you need to give Sissoko the ability to roam. Winks is playing as the deepest midfielder. I wouldn't swap them with Sissoko. Maybe Dier or Skipp.

I can mate, as they are vying for positions in the middle of the pitch. We don't need a deep lying midfielder. We need a two with a CAM in front who is willing to drop when we lose the ball. Lo Celso will be that player imo. I would prefer we played 4231 right now, moving to 4213 (or 433) once Lo Celso has settled, which means we need a midfield pairing either way and I prefer Sissoko next to Ndombele for that.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
They were on us. Passing along the back was because when we passed it forward we lost it.
We were outclassed.
 

Navin R Johnson

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2011
6,376
15,070
I really don’t understand why we continue to persist with the back and forth passing between Lloris and the back 4. It’s an accident waiting to happen.

It invites the press and if we break it, then we can build a counter attack by passing quickly through the lines. However, we broke the press just once today with this tactic and over the last couple of seasons it hasn’t been regularly effective.
"Well you're just old and out of date and all teams build from the back nowadays-you're just not keeping up with the modern game" is what my son used to say to me until he ended his work based hiatus from watching Spurs live and realised how bad it was, he's silent now when I go into a rant about it. Risk is based on likelihood and outcome, I've seen Lloris make awful decisions putting his goal under threat or even conceding goals, whether they were team orders or his own decisions I'm not sure but what I saw today was just awful decision making.

I'll go further, I've tried explaining to my son that when you work in a safety critical industry (football isn't safety critical but bear with me while I make my point please) and you're given a poor instruction then you challenge it, the same goes with driving, if you're in charge of a car then you make the decisions about what's safe, not a manager who decides he wants you 120 miles away in an hour, so you tell them to fuck off, so my take is that whether it's team orders or not Lloris shouldn't be playing his defenders into trouble just because it's some vague rule or team culture that you play out from the back.
 
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rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,905
78,640
I watched the City vs West Ham game again this morning and City were exploiting West Ham over and over again with the overlap from Walker.

I wonder if Poch watched that and told our midfielders to make sure they don't leave space for this only for Pep to be one step ahead and get his team to play with more underpaid instead?!

I'm watching the game now and when walker got in behind in the 1st half, Eriksen is wide left and Walker anticipates Rose stupidly coming for a ball he's never going to get by sprinting into the space he vacates. That seemed to be the theme, get the full back and midfielder to defend wide then just exploit the space when they've been drawn in.

Having said that KWP was tucking in well enough only for him to be forced out wide because know one was picking up the wide man or vice versa.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,905
78,640
Watching the highlights now and second goal could have been prevented if Winks wasn't ball watching. He's stood the closest to De Bruyne in the half space and he's only looking at the ball, if he had have just taken a glance he'd have realised he needed to drop in and block the path or at least make it harder for De Bruyne.

First goal - all three of Rose, Eriksen and Winks go out to block Bernardo but Eriksen should have pushed out and guarded De Bruyne.

I thought we defended well in parts (the back four were structured) and others not so well. Our tracking back could have been much better, although this is a team who have mastered the art of making runs all over the pitch so you're not gonna pick them up everytime. But still, it needs to be better if we are to win at the Etihad
 

JayB

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,652
26,046
Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and say City were far superior, they have to be - the money they've spent, the conditions are almost too perfect for them but that doesn't mean we're not challengers. The way we dug in an hung on for a point requires great mental strength and just because we were outplayed by City does not mean we cannot compete for the title.

Long hard season to come, take the point and run, it's a massive positive for us and that point could probably prove decisive at the end of the season.
I sincerely hope I am wrong and we do prove to be genuine title contenders, but all I'm saying is that I don't think it's fair to expect that we will be.

City are an absolute juggernaut who outlasted Liverpool, who themselves had a nearly perfect (and extremely fortunate) season, despite the fact that KDB was regularly injured and their levels dropped off dramatically when the aging Fernandinho was unavailable. They've rectified that by adding Rodri, KDB is back fit (for now at least), and they've added a world class fullback to boot. Objectively speaking we're behind them and over the course of 38 matches you'd expect that'd be borne out in the points totals.

It'd be amazing if we gave them a run for the title but I'm not going to sulk and act as though the season is a failure if we don't. We've got a very bright future but are still a work in progress, which is fine by me and I think by Poch as well.
 

buckley

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2012
2,595
6,073
I swear some people will not be happy until we go back in time and play like Howard Wilkinson said football should be played
Get the ball and kick it forward as hard and as quick as possible and all I can say is play like that and I won't be renewing my season ticket. Incidentally can anyone tell me when our passing at the back has cost us a goal as I struggle to remember losing a goal playing like that but I do remember that our possession at the back as led to many goals because of controlled possession and its called football not kick it quick kick it far ball.
 

nikojev

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2011
310
763
Missed the game as I had other things to attend. But it sounds like they outplayed us like they would outplay a team at the bortom at the table, yet it only ended in a draw.

We've been poor for so long; we can only go upwards from here. The start of the season was always about just hanging on the ropes and praying we would still be in the contest after the first few rounds. And that exactly what we have managed to do.

The team needs to step up now. Thoughest game of the season is out of the way, new signings are starting to get into the swing of things, top players coming back from injuries and suspensions. It's time to start playing at the level we're capable of playing at.

And poch needs to start getting his formations/line ups right. That's fundamental if we want to push ahead.
 

jolegend

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2005
3,888
3,076
I swear some people will not be happy until we go back in time and play like Howard Wilkinson said football should be played
Get the ball and kick it forward as hard and as quick as possible and all I can say is play like that and I won't be renewing my season ticket. Incidentally can anyone tell me when our passing at the back has cost us a goal as I struggle to remember losing a goal playing like that but I do remember that our possession at the back as led to many goals because of controlled possession and its called football not kick it quick kick it far ball.

No one is advocating long ball football. But we should play to our strengths and passing sideways within our 18 yard box isn’t one of them.
 
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