Levy/ENIC Discussion in here!

[robotsonic]

Sorry, I didn't mean anything insulting, just referencing his obvious awkwardness in social interaction and his attention to the finest of details.
I've long suspected that he's somewhere on the spectrum, purely from personal experience.

I honestly don't wish to insult anyone, I suffer with my own mental health issues and know a few people with varying degrees of autism, from severe to barely noticeable.

It's OK mate, just never usually means from experience that someone is referring to any traits typically regarded as a positive

Hope that all is well with you x

 

[alfie103]

The context has been explained? By saying "buy cheap buy twice" and some people posting that we spend less on transfers and wages now than we did at WHL (we don't)? None of it backed up by anything verifiable? It's not a compelling explanation to me without some actual facts tbh, it's moving the goalposts on what the original assertion was, and coming off like I for some reason know less than others about the issues and facts at hand.

In the first place the post I was responding to said that we're not spending more on transfers, but we have spent hundreds of % more on transfers since moving from WHL, outdoing the league in % terms many times over compared to historic values. That's what I was responding to. It's not a defence of anything intentionally, it's just factual. If the facts "defend" the actions then maybe the actions aren't as bad as some people believe without looking into it, I dunno?

For accuracy purposes, the 555m figure was net, not spend, and I make it 29 perm players. ~£689 spend across them all at £23.75m/each, whatever that means to anyone, crude and meaningless a figure as it is.

Yes the context was explained. 'Buy cheap buy twice' is one of the main reasons we have spent so much and our net spend looks so large. No one is saying you know less than others about the issues and facts at hand.

You are completely right and you made a good point about the amount we are actually spending has increased. I hold my hands up, I was incorrect. However, this amount of spending isn't counting for much as we have spent all this money and we have gone backwards if anything from 2019/2020.

Yeah you are right the number I gave was crude and meaningless but I think if you look at the individual amounts we have spent on most players, they are fairly mid to upper range and our wage bill also tends to hover around 5th to 7th largest in the league which doesn't seem that much different to pre-stadium levels.

I apologise if I have offended you in any way and implied you had know less than others.

 

[C0YS]

Totally, just saying it's not so, ong ago we were the club to break the transfer record, which is unthinkable now

I don't disagree with that. Just think they are poor examples. Maybe signing Greaves was the last example of us signing a proven superstar in his prime. That's comparable to Mbappe that's all.

Forgetting transfer fees, it's the centring on youth and low wages that suggests, while a sensible strategy to a degree, finding value and developing it seems the goal. Generally those kinds of clubs may win something here and there but it isn't exactly ambitious.

For all ENIC have done well right now we are an incredibly rich club. In the PL you have Man city (by dubious means), Man utd and Liverpool. These three are richer than everyone else by a long shot. Behind that you have Us, Arsenal and Chelsea, all more or less with the same sort of earnings. We are a richer club than Juventus, by a considerable margin.

Yet in the PL, Aston Villa spend more wages than us. We are closer to paying west ham wages (we pay 9m more a year) than Liverpool (who are 5th we are 7th, and pay more than 30m more a year than us). We could have the whole Brentford team on our wage books and still be paying out less than Arsenal on wages.

I get the strategy is let youth develop if they do well their wages increase but, yes, you wait. You accept young players = less consistent performances until they reach that level. We want to compete for the best things, but unless Frank turns out to be inspired and our young players bloom in a way that they rarely do. This is a very long term project. Not 2-3 seasons, more like 5-6. Without, that is, significant investment in the first team squad.

 

[McFlash]

It's OK mate, just never usually means from experience that someone is referring to any traits typically regarded as a positive

Hope that all is well with you x

There are positive and negative traits to any mental health "issue" and it's such a misunderstood subject, incredibly complicated and nowhere near enough research is done into it.
Everything gets lumped into one category and it's far more complicated than having a catch all solution that people want to believe in.

I personally don't think that there's a single person alive who doesn't fall into some category in one way or another, or to one degree or another.

We need to stop thinking of it as an illness, or disability, we need to start appreciating the complexity and difference of the human brain and individual personalities.

 

[tobi]

This is random but I want Magic Johnson to lead a group and buy the club.

 

[Pochemon94]

This is random but I want Magic Johnson to lead a group and buy the club.

id take the Guggenheim group instantly.. they would spend a fortune on the club and keep everything in place in terms of what the club ethos is...

 

[$hoguN]

Sorry, I didn't mean anything insulting, just referencing his obvious awkwardness in social interaction and his attention to the finest of details.
I've long suspected that he's somewhere on the spectrum, purely from personal experience.

I honestly don't wish to insult anyone, I suffer with my own mental health issues and know a few people with varying degrees of autism, from severe to barely noticeable.

Those things don’t make you autistic. Not everyone likes being interviewed and people can be detail orientated without being autistic.

 

[aRTy]

I might be naive as I don't understand the finance side that deeply, but it feels like Levy wouldn't even need to do too much to get a large majority of the fans onside again. I feel like all he needs to do is get 2-3 top class players in and show he's willing to go from ~40% wages and match the Arsenal's & Liverpool's at 50/60%. If you take Arsenal, we have a comparable size stadium, expensive tickets and extra revenue from events... They wouldn't even need them to dip into their own pockets, just spend what the club itself earns.

You can ignore all of the tripe in the media over the years about spurs fans are egotistical thinking that they 'expect' to win things, when I reality they just want to be in the mix and compete. If the top 6 have similar squad levels there's always going to be the odd season or two where you don't make CL, like Liverpool, or city on winning the league as most might presume.

 

[Spurs 1961]

This is random but I want Magic Johnson to lead a group and buy the club.

Is that to match your mushroom of choice?

 

[dontcallme]

I might be naive as I don't understand the finance side that deeply, but it feels like Levy wouldn't even need to do too much to get a large majority of the fans onside again. I feel like all he needs to do is get 2-3 top class players in and show he's willing to go from ~40% wages and match the Arsenal's & Liverpool's at 50/60%. If you take Arsenal, we have a comparable size stadium, expensive tickets and extra revenue from events... They wouldn't even need them to dip into their own pockets, just spend what the club itself earns.

You can ignore all of the tripe in the media over the years about spurs fans are egotistical thinking that they 'expect' to win things, when I reality they just want to be in the mix and compete. If the top 6 have similar squad levels there's always going to be the odd season or two where you don't make CL, like Liverpool, or city on winning the league as most might presume.

Good post.

I don’t worry about the levels of spending too much. I’m more bothered by the fact that the board never put a plan in place and see it through.

I actually think Frank as a continuation of the work happening under Ange is a good move. So hopefully we can have a period of improvement and see our plan of buying young talent bear some fruit.

 

[mil1lion]

I don't like the expression buy cheap buy twice. We've actually done a great job over the years signing cheap. It's the more expensive signings from mid table clubs that are our biggest issue. We need to strike the balance between what we do well and where we fall short.

Sign prospects from the championship and league one like Dele, Dawson, Lennon, Walker, Defoe (when West Ham got relegated), Huddleston, Bale etc.

Scope the world for prospects like Modric, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Van Der Ven etc.

Feed the academy and use the loan system so we can develop more from the academy like Kane and King which is very few and far between. Needs improvement but we're looking better of late, time will tell.

Sign some of the best from the other lower end of the premier league league teams or bigger clubs looking to offload. The likes of Dembele, Crouch, Parker. This is where we've been overspending on the likes of Sissoko, Bissouma, Richarlison etc.

Once you start getting to 30m plus you are probably better off just going for top players. It's better to sign a world class player than 2 or 3 very good ones on this category. For me the stadium being a game changer is more a out how we still haven't changed the approach. I want to actually see us sign top players now.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

I don't like the expression buy cheap buy twice. We've actually done a great job over the years signing cheap. It's the more expensive signings from mid table clubs that are our biggest issue. We need to strike the balance between what we do well and where we fall short.

Sign prospects from the championship and league one like Dele, Dawson, Lennon, Walker, Defoe (when West Ham got relegated), Huddleston, Bale etc.

Scope the world for prospects like Modric, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Van Der Ven etc.

Feed the academy and use the loan system so we can develop more from the academy like Kane and King which is very few and far between. Needs improvement but we're looking better of late, time will tell.

Sign some of the best from the other lower end of the premier league league teams or bigger clubs looking to offload. The likes of Dembele, Crouch, Parker. This is where we've been overspending on the likes of Sissoko, Bissouma, Richarlison etc.

Once you start getting to 30m plus you are probably better off just going for top players. It's better to sign a world class player than 2 or 3 very good ones on this category. For me the stadium being a game changer is more a out how we still haven't changed the approach. I want to actually see us sign top players now.

I don't think we have overpaid for Bissouma though, maybe Johnson is the better example

 

[crippsy251]

I might be naive as I don't understand the finance side that deeply, but it feels like Levy wouldn't even need to do too much to get a large majority of the fans onside again. I feel like all he needs to do is get 2-3 top class players in and show he's willing to go from ~40% wages and match the Arsenal's & Liverpool's at 50/60%. If you take Arsenal, we have a comparable size stadium, expensive tickets and extra revenue from events... They wouldn't even need them to dip into their own pockets, just spend what the club itself earns.

You can ignore all of the tripe in the media over the years about spurs fans are egotistical thinking that they 'expect' to win things, when I reality they just want to be in the mix and compete. If the top 6 have similar squad levels there's always going to be the odd season or two where you don't make CL, like Liverpool, or city on winning the league as most might presume.

I'm hoping the plan is along those lines, spent tons on youth who will be the back ups/ rotation players getting game time but only 1 or 2 per match. Then in next few years we can spend even our normal amounts but only bring in 1-3 players a season that will displace someone from the first 11 all while the youngsters are pushing for spots. We bought ourselves a big psr cushion that we can begin to dig into hopefully.

 

[dontcallme]

I don't think we have overpaid for Bissouma though, maybe Johnson is the better example

Agree.

For the level he was performing in the Prem for Brighton, £25m was a great price.

Maybe we didn’t do our due diligence on him or maybe it’s just a deal that didn’t work out.

 

[mil1lion]

I don't think we have overpaid for Bissouma though, maybe Johnson is the better example

Maybe but I think we could have spent that money on a prospect of similar level but a higher ceiling

 

[WiganSpur]

I might be naive as I don't understand the finance side that deeply, but it feels like Levy wouldn't even need to do too much to get a large majority of the fans onside again. I feel like all he needs to do is get 2-3 top class players in and show he's willing to go from ~40% wages and match the Arsenal's & Liverpool's at 50/60%. If you take Arsenal, we have a comparable size stadium, expensive tickets and extra revenue from events... They wouldn't even need them to dip into their own pockets, just spend what the club itself earns.

You can ignore all of the tripe in the media over the years about spurs fans are egotistical thinking that they 'expect' to win things, when I reality they just want to be in the mix and compete. If the top 6 have similar squad levels there's always going to be the odd season or two where you don't make CL, like Liverpool, or city on winning the league as most might presume.

This is it for me. If we go to 55% even instead of the 42% or whatever it is whilst continuing to spend £150m a season on quality players then it will make all the difference.

I know the ideal can't always be reached but I also think we should have a separate wage budget for the top 4/5 players in the squad. Son is our highest earner on around 200k a week most likely, so I would imagine that'll drop the WTR even further allowing us even more wriggle room to attract a couple of top players. I totally get not overpaying squad players though and we should utilise prospects and the academy more for the final 7-8 spots in the squad.

We have to get better on the academy. We're at least producing decent players again. But now we need to manage loans properly to ensure we have good enough club trained players whilst being able to make really good cash on those who won't quite make it. Lange was good at this at Villa so I really hope we can keep hold of him if Paratici is coming back. Levy hasn't helped on this by continuing to sign squad filler and thus blocking pathways. I really hope we start pivoting to quality over quantity again. Only exceptions should be made for short term needs where there are no academy players to fill in.

 

[WiganSpur]

Agree.

For the level he was performing in the Prem for Brighton, £25m was a great price.

Maybe we didn’t do our due diligence on him or maybe it’s just a deal that didn’t work out.

Yeah I don't rate Bissouma, but he's not been a chocolate teapot and I wouldn't say he's been a flop for £25m. Disappointing though, for sure.

At that kind of price though you wonder if Paratici was aware of the risk and decided to do it anyway, as he's clearly a talented footballer.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Adding them together , my god talk about missing the point They weren't even in the same window either.

But they were replacements for Kane.. Talk about missing the point..The club knew Kane was going when Richy was signed and Solanke came in after he had gone to Bayern. If these two did not replace Kane, who did they replace then?

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

I like both Solanke and Richy, but neither is the sort of player who regularly creates their own chances and then takes a good proportion of them.

They both serve a useful purpose, but they leave us short of the sort of striker who can fairly regularly get us goals out of nothing, even against the run of play, which is something most of our best goalscorer over the years have been able to do. We could compile a hugely impressive list of the ones we've had, and all our better teams have had at least one..

I'd say finding and forking out for one of those players is probably our very top priority, though there are one or two others too.

Which means it's probably essential that the board accepts that if they want to stand a realistic chance of achieving their ambitions, a couple of heavy one-off investments could change the whole outlook and future of the club.

Come on you lot in the boardroom: make the difference!

 

[mil1lion]

But they were replacements for Kane.. Talk about missing the point..The club knew Kane was going when Richy was signed and Solanke came in after he had gone to Bayern. If these two did not replace Kane, who did they replace then?

The point was to do with calibre. It was the whole point of the original post. In other words we never sign like for like quality when we sell a player like Kane. Instead we cast the net wider and sign very good players. We know full well Richarlison and Solanke are not world class. They're very good players but it's a step back whichever way you look at it. My point was if we sell Kane for x amount we never are willing to spend that same amount on one player which is what it takes to sign world class (like for like). The biggest issue with Levy is he wants maximum money selling his best players but then is only willing to offer below the asking price to sign them. That's why we never push on because each time we sell world class and don't sign world class we weaken the side simple as that