Levy/ENIC Discussion in here!

[Yiddo100]

Frank not having the final say is a worry to me. He's gonna have all sorts of shite dumped on him when Levy feels the heat from a lack of transfers.

Franks not stupid, he’s not going to be joining if he’s not happy with the set up, I’m sure it’ll be the same as all the rest of the managers.

 

[PaulThurston]

Franks not stupid, he’s not going to be joining if he’s not happy with the set up, I’m sure it’ll be the same as all the rest of the managers.

To be fair though we also said that about Conte and Mourinho.

 

[KaribYid]

It’s not that surprising once you realise many fans base their whole personality on their hatred of Levy. Any decision he takes they will take the opposite view point.

Many on here were calling him ‘spineless’ for not sacking Ange during the season. Then the next accusation was that he would be ‘gutless’ and take the easy option and keep Ange after we won the Europa League because he saved Levy from shit. Now they are calling him heartless and cold and someone who is not interested in winning trophies because he’s finally sacked Ange

You do know that we have a large fan base and even the sub-section of the fan base that doesn’t like Levy is a large group of people with varying opinions that at times may conflict because not everyone dislikes him for the same reasons, right?

 

[only1waddle]

I'm genuinely surprised by the anti-Levy sentiment considering the sheer vitriol of the majority of the fan base towards Ange last season.
I was Ange in as I'm an optimist and football romantic so would have loved to see him get the couple of players in he needed and to see if his system worked with the right players (rather than just the Europa League win).
But, realistically, 66 games said it probably wouldn't so we'd find ourselves flailing about ten games into the season for a short term fix after writing another season off.
Levy made the sensible decision and yet now the majority seem to be after him. Not sure if it's just anti-Levyism or everyone is just swayed by one game.

I think it's just general dislike of Levy, nothing has changed in my stance with the Ange sacking.
I actually think they've made a swift decision and targeted a replacement quickly, which is better than the clown show searches previously.

 

[mil1lion]

I'm genuinely surprised by the anti-Levy sentiment considering the sheer vitriol of the majority of the fan base towards Ange last season.
I was Ange in as I'm an optimist and football romantic so would have loved to see him get the couple of players in he needed and to see if his system worked with the right players (rather than just the Europa League win).
But, realistically, 66 games said it probably wouldn't so we'd find ourselves flailing about ten games into the season for a short term fix after writing another season off.
Levy made the sensible decision and yet now the majority seem to be after him. Not sure if it's just anti-Levyism or everyone is just swayed by one game.

I think it's more the fact that he got another managerial appointment wrong more than anything. He deserves credit for sticking with him which lead to a title but also deserves the criticism for yet another manager who wasn't right for us in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Pochemon94]

To be fair though we also said that about Conte and Mourinho.

the thing is levy tells these managers what they want to hear and then once they sign there is nothing they can do. Levy pulls the yeah we tried but couldn't get bastoni, here is lenglet on loan

 

[Fidget]

I'd think this has probably already been shared, but Matt Law going in two footed on Levy.

https://archive.ph/7gs4X

A very, very accurate exposé of the way Levy works and of how Ange worked against a lot of shit thrown at him.
Frank is the best replacement we can get in the present and I think he can do a good job. Good to see that everyone sounds pretty much positive about it. Let’s hope we can all get behind him if things start badly next season. I’m actually feeling a bit shit about all the dislikes I was throwing about. I think we were the most split on a manager for a long time. Wasn’t really healthy for a lot of us so hopefully this time around will be better.
We all want Spurs to be a big club and there lies the pent up frustration in us. We should direct it at the right person together.
Come on you Spurs!!

 

[DogsOfWar]

Most people's anti-Levy stance had nothing to do with the recent situation, it's because of the duration of his tenure and everything that's happened during that time.

If you think it's just because of Ange, you really haven't been paying attention at all.

But Levy bought in Ange which led to us coming fifth and qualifying for the Europa cup. He then refused to sack Ange which led to us winning the Europa Cup. He then sacked Ange over the league results which is what everyone wanted in the first place.
Thats a win for everyone in my book.

 

[mil1lion]

the thing is levy tells these managers what they want to hear and then once they sign there is nothing they can do. Levy pulls the yeah we tried but couldn't get bastoni, here is lenglet on loan

I'm not sure there's actually any evidence around that and I'm not a Levy fan. In all fairness he's been around and worked in the same way for managers to know exactly what to expect. Managers should take the job knowing they won't get everything they want and will need to make compromises. I see Lenglet mentioned a lot here but he's not the worst player and is doing well at Atletico Madrid. Getting Rodon was far worse under Jose but I still think when we do what we have done best we get some bloody good players. We've been doing that a lot more lately as well. It's just we will never get world class ones and typically that leaves us short of the very top. So those top managers who demand titles and nothing but first place are never going to work out here.

 

[Saoirse]

Myself and a few other people (none of us ITK as far as I’m aware) have discussed whether the wage to revenue ratio might be a financial covenant in our loans for the stadium, hence it being so tightly monitored. But that was quickly dismissed as common sense prevailed given that above all Levy is still at the top of his game in terms of negotiating financials.

The deal we got from the banks was hailed as unbelievable at the time let alone now and it would be hard to believe that we’d have agreed to something that would hamstring us so significantly. Not to mention we will have been paying significantly higher salaries when we moved in (Kane, Lloris, Eriksen, Dele as top earners then bringing in Ndombele on a fortune. If these restrictions are problematic now they’d have been worse then when our wage bill probably was higher and our revenue definitely was lower than it is now.

If you're looking purely at the business side of it. I think the more likely angle is that we've re-evaluated following the huge increase in interest rates since Covid, the escalation to full-scale war in Ukraine, and the Liz Truss minibudget.

So far, we have mostly been paying the loans on an interest-only basis. This isn't inherently a bad idea. By the time the loan expires, you're hoping that the capital sum is a smaller proportion of your revenue due to growth over that period - especially if e.g. broadcast revenues continue to increase or we further capitalise on non-football events with an NFL franchise, making it less painful to repay. However, the forecasts here will now be much worse than when we took out the loan. Broadcast revenue has stalled with a domestic decline balanced by some further growth internationally, and crucially the high interest rates mean that if we need to renew the loan at the end of the term without hugely increased revenue, it's going to be very painful.

Therefore one strategy could be to attempt to keep a low wage spend, invest in primarily players with resell value, hire managers who you think can challenge for 4th or 5th somewhat against the odds, and try to repay as much of the capital as possible while we're still locked in to the low rates. In the long term this is quite possibly the best thing for the club, but it would be extremely frustrating over the next 10-18 years. The idea that we're looking for external investment also makes sense in this context; using it to ensure we don't have to deal with the high interest rates could multiply the effect of the investment, and enable us to be less cautious on the footballing side as a result of this security, in turn hopefully growing the value of the club and as a result of ENIC's remaining share.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Levy has made some poor decisions in the past and dithered too much but if we do hire Frank in the next day or 2 then credit where it’s due I personally will then think he’s handled this whole situation almost perfectly.

Also luckily, Frank is balanced and flexible so can actually work with that we’ve got and improve it rather than need a huge rebuild.

That being said Levy still needs to back Frank significantly to help him ‘compete’ on all fronts now we are back in the CL.

 

[rossdapep]

I think it's just general dislike of Levy, nothing has changed in my stance with the Ange sacking.
I actually think they've made a swift decision and targeted a replacement quickly, which is better than the clown show searches previously.

Yeah the whole process from Ange needing to go back in February time to the incoming of Frank has actually been a very good process.

They could have fired Ange and brought in an interm to try win it (I wanted that and was wrong).

But they let Ange see it out. Perhaps they recognized how much the players had bought into him and felt it was worth the risk.

Secondly, I think they did the right thing and let the dust settle a bit and then fire him whilst it seems they already targetted Frank a while back and put everything in place.

It would have been pretty heartless for them to fire Ange days after the win or when he was on holiday.

I actually think Ange left in the best possible way all things considered which you cant really say about Levy's previous firings.

I'd like to think Levy was being given good advise from someone like Lange and not listening to who he typically does.

Having said all that, if Frank fails then we'll be once again criticising the pick.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Franks not stupid, he’s not going to be joining if he’s not happy with the set up, I’m sure it’ll be the same as all the rest of the managers.

He knows Lange from their days in Denmark , that can only help their relationship.

 

[Chris2403]

I think it's more the fact that he got another managerial appointment wrong more than anything. He deserves credit for sticking with him which lead to a title but also deserves the criticism for yet another manager who wasn't right for us in the grand scheme of things.

I think it’s probably more that a lot of people clearly wanted ange to stay cos he’s shown he has something that has been missing, and it was worth the risk of another season to find out if we can get things going in the league with him, because if we did, we would have had a proper football person at the club for the long term! Another bad managerial appoint is what he will believe this was! the truth is all these managers had a chance to be successful at Tottenham, just not under him!

 

[SUIYHA]

Franks not stupid, he’s not going to be joining if he’s not happy with the set up, I’m sure it’ll be the same as all the rest of the managers.

I remember when Poch joined and there was an initial outrage when we only signed Eric Dier and Benjamin Stambouli in his first summer. Clearly our squad was nowhere near good enough, we'd just watched the team get battered over and over again under Sherwood. Danny Rose new contract? Meltdown.

Turned out that Lloris, Walker, Rose, Vertonghen, Dembele, Eriksen, Lamela and Kane was actually a pretty good spine to inherit, and with some better coaching they started to fulfil their potential.

Frank isn't going to get oil club money to spend but he's going to get much more than he had at Brentford - and if he can work his magic on the young players - Vicario, Spence, Van de Ven, Gray, Udogie, Bergvall, Moore, Johnson, Odobert...we could see something similar. Bonus points if he can get more from the experienced heads too (Solanke, Maddison, Kulu, Porro, and if he stays, Romero)

 

[Stuart Leathercock]

Bank Covenents - which Kieran Maguire has also mentioned a few times.

Almost a pre-requisite to any business loan of a large size.

Put simply - as part of the loan agreement, your financial performance has to meet certain criteria. Would be around minimum profits, and certain balance sheet requirements.

it’s like an ongoing credit check, good performance against the testing can see interest rates reduce, whilst poor performance may see interest rates increase, the bank require more security from the shareholders - OR worst case, the bank calling in the debt.

Breaching is not good, and it makes sense with the way we are run.

Typically the criteria is around EBITDA (as opposed to profit). Having a certain level of liquid assets is also often required (enough to ensure interest coverage for a certain period)

 

[Stuart Leathercock]

I remember when Poch joined and there was an initial outrage when we only signed Eric Dier and Benjamin Stambouli in his first summer. Clearly our squad was nowhere near good enough, we'd just watched the team get battered over and over again under Sherwood. Danny Rose new contract? Meltdown.

Turned out that Lloris, Walker, Rose, Vertonghen, Dembele, Eriksen, Lamela and Kane was actually a pretty good spine to inherit, and with some better coaching they started to fulfil their potential.

Frank isn't going to get oil club money to spend but he's going to get much more than he had at Brentford - and if he can work his magic on the young players - Vicario, Spence, Van de Ven, Gray, Udogie, Bergvall, Moore, Johnson, Odobert...we could see something similar. Bonus points if he can get more from the experienced heads too (Solanke, Maddison, Kulu, Porro, and if he stays, Romero)

Spurs moved from 7th to 6th under Sherwood. He had the best premier league points per game record of any Spurs manager.

 

[carpediem991]

Bringing in Frank and I am fully on board with Levy and the club.

Perfectly handled the Ange regarding keeping him until the end of the season and the decision and timing of the sacking.

Bringing Frank in sounds a good fit with thoughts put into it. Next challenge will be to get some player profiles in that Frank needs. Probably the toughest ask regarding our recent history.

 

[MR_BEN]

Typically the criteria is around EBITDA (as opposed to profit). Having a certain level of liquid assets is also often required (enough to ensure interest coverage for a certain period)

Yes - agree. I just used profit as a simple terms as didn’t want to confuse people with EBITDA etc though as a lot wouldn’t understand accounting terms.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Frank not having the final say is a worry to me. He's gonna have all sorts of shite dumped on him when Levy feels the heat from a lack of transfers.

Tbf he has little say in Brentfords transfers. It seems we are trying to replicate Brentfords model but a much higher level so it's about Lange working with Frank and the data to find the right players.