Let's All Laugh At... let's all laugh at United

[muppetman]

Personally I think it's far too many managers with a variety of styles for it to be a coincidence. A person like Rangnick knows when something is wrong 100% even if he's not as hands on as he once was. They're good players but they just turn up when they feel like it.

How many players has Ange transformed here in reality? I don't think there's a single player you could make a case for, perhaps Bissouma but he's not a regular in the league any more.

The reality is Ange is either working with new signings, players that weren't already problematic or bad ability wise (Romero, Bentancur, Richy, Son, Kulu, Pape, Porro) or academy talents now. If you put Ange in charge of our 22/23 or 21/22 sides he struggles a fair bit imo.

I'm not sure it means players are toxic, just that Utd have been a very poorly run football club for many years now.

I certainly agree that the likes of Eriksen and Casemiro are past their best and need to be moved on, but that again is down to the lack of an overarching plan, rather than the players themselves.

How one of the richest clubs in world football can be in the position where they are having to play some of these would be tragic if it wasn't so funny.

 

[WiganSpur]

I'm not sure it means players are toxic, just that Utd have been a very poorly run football club for many years now.

I certainly agree that the likes of Eriksen and Casemiro are past their best and need to be moved on, but that again is down to the lack of an overarching plan, rather than the players themselves.

How one of the richest clubs in world football can be in the position where they are having to play some of these would be tragic if it wasn't so funny.

Yep it is basically a dreadful football operation. Given the new structure I was very surprised by how they chose to operate this summer. Ten Hag had control over signings last summer and it was a disaster so I am utterly baffled as to why they've chosen to give him so much money again.

There was a debate to be had at the time as to whether they should have kept him given the injuries but if you're on the fence about a manager the last thing you do is give him complete control over another £150m. I would have accepted the mitigating circumstances 100% however I would have also been honest with him and said that I wanted him to get performances to pick up with an injury free squad before he would be given many expensive signings. Given he was blaming injuries for the season it's only fair to expect that.

Instead, they've now potentially clogged up the squad even more if Ugarte, Mazraoui, De Ligt and Zirkzee fail to impress.

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

Ten Hag is evidently not the man but it's also true that right now nobody would really be able to come in and do a significantly better job. If they got Potter in now the same toxic players will have trampled all over him within 18 months. It's too early for that kind of manager.

They have got the same problem we have had over the past 5-6 years but worse given the contract lengths and eyewatering wages some of those players will be on. Obviously Eriksen, Maguire, Evans and Lindelof will go in 2025 but that's only a very small chunk.

You've essentially got a list of huge earners here who'll need to go:

Casemiro 2026
Sancho 2026 (can probably be revived)
Shaw 2027 (injuries)
Fernandes 2027
Antony 2027
Onana? 2028
Rashford 2028
Mount 2028
De Ligt 2029 (probably too early to say lol)

It won't improve until about 6-7 of these senior guys are gone. I don't think Postecoglou & Lange could arrive there and do something similar to what they've done with Spurs in 3 transfer windows. I think you're talking 5 at least and that's only with the right manager.

The best strategy for United now is to focus on the next couple of years only. Admit defeat with these players. Try desperately to get rid of those above either permanently or on loan, pay off contracts if necessary or have the manager work with what he has until the contracts expire. If they sack ETH now they are honestly just better off with a pragmatist for a year or two. Play on the counter attack or something. Not that it would happen but Carlo Ancelotti would be the best appointment they could make at this juncture.

In terms of incomings they're better ending expensive buys under Ten Hag until they've cleared out the decks and can put him out of his misery with some hope of improvement. Sort out the scouting and take cheaper punts on more less proven teenager talents who would mature in time for when there is space for them to break through. Think it's better for United to aim to sort out most of the mess by summer 26 then that'll be the time to move for the long term coach.

In the meantime they're top 6 at best relying purely on individual quality.

Onana has been good recently, I definitely think it's one of the few good signings they've made.

Casemeiro (his obscene wages aside) is a player who still has a lot to offer. I'm in a minority here I know.

Maguire as well isn't as bad as people make out.

Fernandes shouldn't be captain but he's a useful player.

The problem they have is two fold, 1 is the obscene wages and two is the consistent overrated players they continue to sign and on big wages. De Ligt just follows on from this.

Before thinking of offloading players they need to start by not signing players based off their reputation, but based off form.

Mount, Ugarte, Mazzeroui and De Ligt were all players who were out of their previous team and were living off their reputation. All on big wages and all unwanted. Those sorts of signings are just a recipe for disaster.

Signing very young players is a dangerous game for them as well, as young players going into such a chaotic environment is just asking for trouble.

They just need to start making sensible signings on sensible wages. They are NOT a top team anymore and if they accept this then perhaps they can start to rebuild.

If I were them I'd be targeting less popular PL experienced players. Even a few free transfers but with sensible contracts.

While they still have the 'we're Manchester United' mantra they're going to be onto a loser.

 

[muppetman]

Onana has been good recently, I definitely think it's one of the few good signings they've made.

Casemeiro (his obscene wages aside) is a player who still has a lot to offer. I'm in a minority here I know.

Maguire as well isn't as bad as people make out.

Fernandes shouldn't be captain but he's a useful player.

The problem they have is two fold, 1 is the obscene wages and two is the consistent overrated players they continue to sign and on big wages. De Ligt just follows on from this.

Before thinking of offloading players they need to start by not signing players based off their reputation, but based off form.

Mount, Ugarte, Mazzeroui and De Ligt were all players who were out of their previous team and were living off their reputation. All on big wages and all unwanted. Those sorts of signings are just a recipe for disaster.

Signing very young players is a dangerous game for them as well, as young players going into such a chaotic environment is just asking for trouble.

They just need to start making sensible signings on sensible wages. They are NOT a top team anymore and if they accept this then perhaps they can start to rebuild.

If I were them I'd be targeting less popular PL experienced players. Even a few free transfers but with sensible contracts.

While they still have the 'we're Manchester United' mantra they're going to be onto a loser.

All sounds sensible, but then I think about the reaction of Keane, Scholes, Neville and co when they sign someone who isn't a huge name. Having so many of their old boys in the media isn't helping Utd at the moment.

 

[WiganSpur]

Onana has been good recently, I definitely think it's one of the few good signings they've made.

Casemeiro (his obscene wages aside) is a player who still has a lot to offer. I'm in a minority here I know.

Maguire as well isn't as bad as people make out.

Fernandes shouldn't be captain but he's a useful player.

The problem they have is two fold, 1 is the obscene wages and two is the consistent overrated players they continue to sign and on big wages. De Ligt just follows on from this.

Before thinking of offloading players they need to start by not signing players based off their reputation, but based off form.

Mount, Ugarte, Mazzeroui and De Ligt were all players who were out of their previous team and were living off their reputation. All on big wages and all unwanted. Those sorts of signings are just a recipe for disaster.

Signing very young players is a dangerous game for them as well, as young players going into such a chaotic environment is just asking for trouble.

They just need to start making sensible signings on sensible wages. They are NOT a top team anymore and if they accept this then perhaps they can start to rebuild.

If I were them I'd be targeting less popular PL experienced players. Even a few free transfers but with sensible contracts.

While they still have the 'we're Manchester United' mantra they're going to be onto a loser.

Maguire and Fernandes have been there for years and have never consistently performed. Streaks of 10/15 games at best. Nor has Rashford who also has major question marks regarding his work rate. Mount has as much hunger as someone who's just left an all you can eat. I'm sure everyone would agree that Antony has been an unmitigated disaster. Shaw can't keep fit. Who'd take a punt on him?

Onions I guess but I don't rate Onana. I like the guy's attitude but he makes too many positional and handling errors. Probably in the top 10 keepers in the PL currently and that's about it. Getting rid of Henderson to keep De Gea only to swap him for Onana was nuts.

Casemiro's legs have well and truly gone, he is no more than a bit part player from the bench to close out a match surely. He's one you want to be paying £30k a week not £300k a week.

And like you say chances are at least a couple of the players they've brought in this summer don't work out either.

On top of all this you then look at some of the players they've gotten rid of over the last 2/3 years:

- Henderson
- Hannibal
- Kambwala
- Pellistri
- Elanga
- Garner

All seem like hungry young or academy players that could potentially be built around with Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund, Amad etc.

 

[superted4]

All sounds sensible, but then I think about the reaction of Keane, Scholes, Neville and co when they sign someone who isn't a huge name. Having so many of their old boys in the media isn't helping Utd at the moment.

Its long been an issue, add in the likes of Hargreaves, Ferdinand, Owen (to a lesser extent), Evra, even Solskjaer is pipping up in paper interviews. They all jump on bandwagon to keep themselves relevant. The sense of entitlement runs deep with anyone associated with that club.

 

[allatsea]

All sounds sensible, but then I think about the reaction of Keane, Scholes, Neville and co when they sign someone who isn't a huge name. Having so many of their old boys in the media isn't helping Utd at the moment.

They shouldn't be taking any notice of those three who are all failures at management.

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

Maguire and Fernandes have been there for years and have never consistently performed. Streaks of 10/15 games at best. Nor has Rashford who also has major question marks regarding his work rate. Mount has as much hunger as someone who's just left an all you can eat. I'm sure everyone would agree that Antony has been an unmitigated disaster. Shaw can't keep fit. Who'd take a punt on him?

Onions I guess but I don't rate Onana. I like the guy's attitude but he makes too many positional and handling errors. Probably in the top 10 keepers in the PL currently and that's about it. Getting rid of Henderson to keep De Gea only to swap him for Onana was nuts.

Casemiro's legs have well and truly gone, he is no more than a bit part player from the bench to close out a match surely. He's one you want to be paying £30k a week not £300k a week.

And like you say chances are at least a couple of the players they've brought in this summer don't work out either.

On top of all this you then look at some of the players they've gotten rid of over the last 2/3 years:

- Henderson
- Hannibal
- Kambwala
- Pellistri
- Elanga
- Garner

All seem like hungry young or academy players that could potentially be built around with Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund, Amad etc.

Especially Garner, he's one who could have helped them a lot.

With Casemeiro the signing in the first place was bonkers (the financial package) as was Varane.

I don't disagree, with a need to replace most of those, but if they do it too quickly then they could drop even further.

I mean if Fernandez goes, who plays ahead of him? The ever injured Luke Shaw is still the best left back they have. Without Maguire and Lindelof they'd an injury away from playing Evans again.

Their winger/forward situation is even more precarious. They have Hoijlund, Garnacho and Diallo. All of which have potential but shouldn't be starting every week due to age, ability and fitness.

So if they sell Rashford and Anthony they'd be extremely light up front. New wingers and strikers don't come cheap. So binning off those players saving money on the wages could actually get them relegated or cost more in the long run if they're not very careful.

Yes, the majority are not top 4 quality players, but they'll probably keep them in the top 8.

I say again they have to stop signing these types of players (at astronomical fees and wages) and sign intelligently before they start to bin them off.

 

[Pochemon94]

Onana has been good recently, I definitely think it's one of the few good signings they've made.

Casemeiro (his obscene wages aside) is a player who still has a lot to offer. I'm in a minority here I know.

Maguire as well isn't as bad as people make out.

Fernandes shouldn't be captain but he's a useful player.

The problem they have is two fold, 1 is the obscene wages and two is the consistent overrated players they continue to sign and on big wages. De Ligt just follows on from this.

Before thinking of offloading players they need to start by not signing players based off their reputation, but based off form.

Mount, Ugarte, Mazzeroui and De Ligt were all players who were out of their previous team and were living off their reputation. All on big wages and all unwanted. Those sorts of signings are just a recipe for disaster.

Signing very young players is a dangerous game for them as well, as young players going into such a chaotic environment is just asking for trouble.

They just need to start making sensible signings on sensible wages. They are NOT a top team anymore and if they accept this then perhaps they can start to rebuild.

If I were them I'd be targeting less popular PL experienced players. Even a few free transfers but with sensible contracts.

While they still have the 'we're Manchester United' mantra they're going to be onto a loser.

the funniest thing is, they could use an old Welbeck right now, super reliable, not a massive name but will do numbers for them and bring them consistency upfront. They never would as he "failed" with them/hes like 36

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

the funniest thing is, they could use an old Welbeck right now, super reliable, not a massive name but will do numbers for them and bring them consistency upfront. They never would as he "failed" with them/hes like 36

You could probably make a team of United 'cast offs' who'd give the current United team a game....

Henderson/De Gea
AWB
B Williams
Tuanzebe
Varane
Garner
A Gomes
Pereira
Zaha
Welbeck
Greenwood

Ok not a great team, but I'm sure they'd avoid relegation and on their day could beat United.

 

[Marty]

You could probably make a team of United 'cast offs' who'd give the current United team a game....

Henderson/De Gea
AWB
B Williams
Tuanzebe
Varane
Garner
A Gomes
Pereira
Zaha
Welbeck
Greenwood

Ok not a great team, but I'm sure they'd avoid relegation and on their day could beat United.

Greenwood doesn't count for obvious reasons.

Varane theoretically joined United at prime age and sort of made sense, but you always have to be wary when Real decide to let somebody go without much fuss. He was clearly broken and now of course retired. The funny thing there is how United decided to have their pants pulled down again on Casemiro.

 

[RJR1949]

If you were Jim Ratcliffe you would be looking at Spurs with envious eyes: a manager who has imposed his style and improved the team in a year; attractive, attacking football; good young players recruited for a notably lower spend than United; an affordable wage bill; and a modern stadium that is a cash machine.

Nice isn’t it!

 

[Chinaspur]

Funny to see RATcliffe say that the decision to sack ETH isn’t his today. Coward.

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

If you were Jim Ratcliffe you would be looking at Spurs with envious eyes: a manager who has imposed his style and improved the team in a year; attractive, attacking football; good young players recruited for a notably lower spend than United; an affordable wage bill; and a modern stadium that is a cash machine.

Nice isn’t it!

And INEOS plastered all over the dugout seats

 

[Danny1]

Yeah United really are a long long long way from being close to what they and their fans expect.
I met my mate for a bit of lunch yesterday who is a “southern Manc” and he is totally disillusioned with the whole club.
He looks at the team and just hates it. The only players he really wants to keep are Garnacho, Diallo and Mainoo. He is happy to sell every other player.

I remember feeling like this about Spurs at times where I wouldn’t have cared had we sold 99% of the squad.

Thing is I look at their squad and think about who I would take over ours and to be honest the list is this:

Garnacho - id take him over Werner.

Mainoo - id take him over Bissouma as I think he would excel under Ange.

Holjund - I’d take him over Richy as again I think he would actually be a good player in our system.

That’s it, those are the only players I’d take and to be honest none of them would currently be starters for us which makes it all even more crazy.

 

[wakefieldyid]

i think the decline had started under fergie the last team which won the league was Schole, Rio, Evra, Rooney, Van P, Carrick all where old and I don't think they had any or many good young players coming though of the calibre to replace them. there squad had needed a adding to a few years earlier with quality.

... and much of the blame for their subsequent drop in perfomance falls directly on Fergie's personal vanity. Having decided that he would retire at the end of the 2012/3 season, rather than planning ahead he got United's board to pay top dollar for the injury-prone, 31 year old RVP in the expectation that he'd just about last until Fergie's leaving party. The team won the Premier League that season but the squad had been left with too many gaps to plug.

 

[allatsea]

... and much of the blame for their subsequent drop in perfomance falls directly on Fergie's personal vanity. Having decided that he would retire at the end of the 2012/3 season, rather than planning ahead he got United's board to pay top dollar for the injury-prone, 31 year old RVP in the expectation that he'd just about last until Fergie's leaving party. The team won the Premier League that season but the squad had been left with too many gaps to plug.

Winning the PL that season was nothing short of a miracle. SAF had let the squad get run down and left nothing much really for Moyes to work with.

 

[superted4]

Winning the PL that season was nothing short of a miracle. SAF had let the squad get run down and left nothing much really for Moyes to work with.

But wasn’t it the end of the cycle. I’m sure if you look back Fergie used to rebuild the team/squad every 3/4 years and that was the end of that particular cycle and he just didn’t have the energy for another rebuild. Can’t really blame their most successful manager ever.

For me their biggest mistake was Moyes, they should have gone all out for mourinho at that stage and given him the keys to the war chest

 

[$hoguN]

think Ten Hag is being saved by the fact there isn’t an obvious replacement to him.

They are going to be in the realms of a Southgate unless they can convince someone like Emery to go there (but why would he?)

 

[WiganSpur]

think Ten Hag is being saved by the fact there isn’t an obvious replacement to him.

They are going to be in the realms of a Southgate unless they can convince someone like Emery to go there (but why would he?)

Honestly, Guardiola would struggle if the club is not prepared to take enormous hits on 5-6 key players. They should stop spending for 1-2 years until they are finally able to throw the trash out and make room in multiple senses of the word. Yes they might get a lot worse doing that but they could save themselves a stack of money to strike when the time is right to rebuild.

We had that problem but it was a lot less deep rooted given we don't pay the wages United do and we tend to sign younger players.