Lack of balance in central midfield

[hellava_tough]

Despite the squad being full of very talented individuals, for me our main weakness is the lack of balance in central midfield; a midfield that I'd like to be made up from a DM, a box-to-box busy **** and a more attack-minded CM that will get you around 15 league goals a season

I like this set-up because it's flexible, with the AM dropping back into central midfield, or pushing further forward to support the striker if needs-be, and where the DM can cover the central defenders and forward runs of the full-backs

Anyway....

DM - We currently don't employ a ball-playing defensive midfielder to sit infront of the back 4, from which every attack begins, and where the DM can, as mentioned, cover the full-backs when they rampage forward (which they do very well at Spurs )

Despite his lack of mobility I do wonder if Huddlestone, when fit, should always be one of the first names on the team-sheet as he can fulfill this role, vital for ball-retention.

Box-to-box - Modric is perfectly fine at this, although some might argue that (i) he's not aggressive enough and (ii) his heart isn't at Spurs anymore and we should get rid come the summer.

Possibly, but for the time being he's VERY good at being the guy who likes to keep things ticking over. However, his main weakness is that he rarely threatens to get into the opposition's box or score a goal (4 goals in 22 appearances this season)

Some might say that he's the 'metronome', he's not there to score, which is fine. But if not, thenscoring responsibilities would go to...

Attacking CM - ... who, I guess you could argue is VDV, but who (probably because of injury) hasn't done too well this season in the scoring dept (9 goals from 26 appearances). That's not necessarily a shocking goal return, but it needs to be better if we're going to challenge for the league one day

----

Of course there are other weaknesses; Adebayor hasn't scored that many this season (although his assists have been good), we lack back-up for our pacy wide-players, perhaps we haven't been 'mentally' good enough at certain parts of the season

Fair enough

But a central midfield this season (not including Huddlestone) picked from Modric, Sandro, Parker, Livermore and VDV simply hasn't given us the balance that we've needed due to a derth of creativity, attacking flair and, crucially, goals.

Anyway, that's just my humble opinion

What do you guys think?

 

[Black]

Just wait till Hudd comes back aka black Paul scoles

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Just wait till Hudd comes back aka black Paul scoles

:lol: good one.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Parker and Modric have done well in their as a midfield 2 but when we come up against a 3 especially away from home I don't like it at all. I know Parker is the main guy right now and so he should be, but I think moving forward Sandro and possibly even Livermore would battle it out for that defensive midfield position. I think Sandro's height and physical presence make him ideal for this, he also has the pace and mobility to cover the full backs if they go forward.

We know he doesn't have a passing range like Hudd but as long as he's able to feed the other to midfielders with short, quick passing he should be fine. Hudd's passing range is awesome, but we live in the age of false 9's, no 10s and inverted wingers who like the space between the midfield and defensive lines. I'd rather have Sandro in there to pick off these guys than the Hudd.

As strange as it might seem but I've always thought that Jenas was perfect for a box-to-box midfielder provided he was playing in a 3 man midfield next to someone defensive and attacking. He can chip in with a few goals and has the pace and energy to get back to help out the defence.

I believe that with our current squad we are one or 2 players away from being able to field a very strong 4-3-3 lineup which a lot of coaches prefer these days.

 

[ShelfSide18]

A midfield 3 of Sandro/Parker/Modric is I think an ideal blend in the middle of the park, perfectly balanced off and on the ball. Of course there's a lot of horses for courses in picking your side - I see no point of playing that at home to Stoke in a couple of weeks for example - but we won't go far wrong if that is our regular set up.

 

[Mr Pink]

A midfield 3 of Sandro/Parker/Modric is I think an ideal blend in the middle of the park, perfectly balanced off and on the ball. Of course there's a lot of horses for courses in picking your side - I see no point of playing that at home to Stoke in a couple of weeks for example - but we won't go far wrong if that is our regular set up.

Totally agree Shelfie.

How would you line up against Stoke, given that its at home, and with an eye on the Chelsea game knowing its the early kick off on Saturday.

I would be tempted to keep VDV and Sandro fresh for the Chelsea game.

In fact we need to consider that we have Bolton in the Cup on the Saturday before the Stoke game.

Interesting to see what way Harry utilises the squad, I hope he does. One thing for me though, is get the Stoke game won first without taking our eye off the ball and thinking too much about Chelsea, as the former game is eminently more winnable.

 

[hellava_tough]

Parker and Modric have done well in their as a midfield 2 but when we come up against a 3 especially away from home I don't like it at all. I know Parker is the main guy right now and so he should be, but I think moving forward Sandro and possibly even Livermore would battle it out for that defensive midfield position. I think Sandro's height and physical presence make him ideal for this, he also has the pace and mobility to cover the full backs if they go forward.

We know he doesn't have a passing range like Hudd but as long as he's able to feed the other to midfielders with short, quick passing he should be fine. Hudd's passing range is awesome, but we live in the age of false 9's, no 10s and inverted wingers who like the space between the midfield and defensive lines. I'd rather have Sandro in there to pick off these guys than the Hudd.

As strange as it might seem but I've always thought that Jenas was perfect for a box-to-box midfielder provided he was playing in a 3 man midfield next to someone defensive and attacking. He can chip in with a few goals and has the pace and energy to get back to help out the defence.

I believe that with our current squad we are one or 2 players away from being able to field a very strong 4-3-3 lineup which a lot of coaches prefer these days.

Despite what I've written above, I'm not actually Hudd's biggest fan as I think modern footballers should be quick and incredible fit

However, with Lennon and Bale in the side I think Hudd playing quick balls in behind the opposition full-backs would be deadly, especially on the counter-attack. Plenty of teams try this, but not many teams have a player who can deliver laser-guided passes in the way that Tommy can

A midfield 3 of Sandro/Parker/Modric is I think an ideal blend in the middle of the park, perfectly balanced off and on the ball. Of course there's a lot of horses for courses in picking your side - I see no point of playing that at home to Stoke in a couple of weeks for example - but we won't go far wrong if that is our regular set up.

Except they don't score enough goals. If you're going to play with only 1 up-front then you need your midfielders to be scoring too

However, I think you've raised a good point concerning Stoke. I think we should definitely have different teams to suit different opponents. That's not to say that we should make wholesale changes every match, but we shouldn't necessarily try to accomodate 'star' players in the side if we're, say, going to Old Trafford to grind out a draw.

I do think that sometimes we need to be more pragmatic and play 'ugly' football when needs-be. It would probably earn us another 5 or 6 points a season!

 

[hellava_tough]

Totally agree Shelfie.

How would you line up against Stoke, given that its at home, and with an eye on the Chelsea game knowing its the early kick off on Saturday.

I would be tempted to keep VDV and Sandro fresh for the Chelsea game.

In fact we need to consider that we have Bolton in the Cup on the Saturday before the Stoke game.

Interesting to see what way Harry utilises the squad, I hope he does. One thing for me though, is get the Stoke game won first without taking our eye off the ball and thinking too much about Chelsea, as the former game is eminently more winnable.

Another interesting point Pinky - everyone goes on about the strength we have in our squad, but we do rely on the same old faces to get us our results

It would be interesting to compare the top 6 in terms of different players used during the season. I wonder if the likes of Man Utd utilise their squad better than the rest?

 

[mendesstormer]

Hmm ... absolutely disagree with the idea that central midfield balance is our main weakness. I'd say central midfield is one of our main strengths and the balance provided by Modric/Parker/Sandro + Livermore/Hudd is about as good as it gets. That's before you even factor in VDV who as mentioned is the one CM who provides regular goals. IF he's on 9 at this stage of the season, why not 15 by the end of the season? Can't ask for much more.

 

[Mr Pink]

Another interesting point Pinky - everyone goes on about the strength we have in our squad, but we do rely on the same old faces to get us our results

It would be interesting to compare the top 6 in terms of different players used during the season. I wonder if the likes of Man Utd utilise their squad better than the rest?

Ferguson is the best in the business at it. Just has an incredible knack of knowing when to use certain players, with different qualities for different games. For high energy games he always brings in Park, he might not have featured for 6 or 7 games, who's fresh and ready to play to his optimum, and normally does when called upon.

 

[Blake Griffin]

so basically you want ......

------------------- friedel -------------------
walker ----- kaboul ------- king ------ ekotto
lennon ----- hudd -------- modric ---- bale
-------------------- vdv --------------------
----------------- adebayor ------------------

are you trying to give bus-conductor an aneurysm?

 

[Spurger King]

Maybe they have an inner ear infection.

 

[ItsBoris]

Parker and Modric have done well in their as a midfield 2 but when we come up against a 3 especially away from home I don't like it at all. I know Parker is the main guy right now and so he should be, but I think moving forward Sandro and possibly even Livermore would battle it out for that defensive midfield position. I think Sandro's height and physical presence make him ideal for this, he also has the pace and mobility to cover the full backs if they go forward.

We know he doesn't have a passing range like Hudd but as long as he's able to feed the other to midfielders with short, quick passing he should be fine. Hudd's passing range is awesome, but we live in the age of false 9's, no 10s and inverted wingers who like the space between the midfield and defensive lines. I'd rather have Sandro in there to pick off these guys than the Hudd.

Yeah, I've thought for a while that we control games better with Sandro than Parker. Sandro commands that area, he can win headers, pass, tackle, etc. Although Parker is a good player I don't think he has the same presence in there.

 

[Strikeb4ck]

Home and against bad teams away...

Ade
VdV
Bale - Modric - Parker/Sandro/Hudd - Lennon​

Away vs good teams...

Ade
Bale--------VdV
Modric - Parker
Sandro​

Modric as a deep lying playmaker, Parker box to box, Sandro anchor man.

 

[hellava_tough]

Hmm ... absolutely disagree with the idea that central midfield balance is our main weakness. I'd say central midfield is one of our main strengths and the balance provided by Modric/Parker/Sandro + Livermore/Hudd is about as good as it gets. That's before you even factor in VDV who as mentioned is the one CM who provides regular goals. IF he's on 9 at this stage of the season, why not 15 by the end of the season? Can't ask for much more.

I guess when you put it like that I can't complain really :grin:

His goals tally was pretty good last season as well (15 in 36)

Perhaps it's just my attitude to VDV coming through - basically I still haven't made up my mind about him. Not that I don't think he's talented, but that I wonder if he's fit enough to feature in a season-long campaign of tough Premier League matches

 

[hellava_tough]

Home and against bad teams away...

Ade
VdV
Bale - Modric - Parker/Sandro/Hudd - Lennon​

Away vs good teams...

Ade
Bale--------VdV
Modric - Parker
Sandro​

Modric as a deep lying playmaker, Parker box to box, Sandro anchor man.

I agree that we need some steel away from home, but we can't sit back like we did against Arsenal

If Modric is deep-lying, then that only leaves Parker to attack through the middle, something he's not that great at...

...which means the opposition only has to watch the wings for the threat. And Ade will probably be isolated up-front

For me, away from home VDV needs to be dropped to allow both Bale and Lennon to catch the opposition on the counter with pace

 

[ShelfSide18]

Totally agree Shelfie.

How would you line up against Stoke, given that its at home, and with an eye on the Chelsea game knowing its the early kick off on Saturday.

I would be tempted to keep VDV and Sandro fresh for the Chelsea game.

In fact we need to consider that we have Bolton in the Cup on the Saturday before the Stoke game.

Interesting to see what way Harry utilises the squad, I hope he does. One thing for me though, is get the Stoke game won first without taking our eye off the ball and thinking too much about Chelsea, as the former game is eminently more winnable.

Well Stoke pitch their battles in the air and down the flanks, long balls to the strikers and getting the ball wide with little fuss and whip balls in (or preferably win throw ins!) so I see no use in putting Parker and Sandro into the same Cm where there is no battle taking place. They can't win the ball when it's sailing over their heads.

Stoke will sit deep and give you possession, they've only once had more possession than the opposition in the Premiership so it's about how we use it in deeper positions so I'd play Rafa deeper (he often goes looking for it in deep areas anyway when there is no 'in the hole' for him to play in) alongside Luka and with Parker or Sandro providing some thrust from deep.

Summat like this in Cm

Modric VDV
Parker​

Which is often what we look like anyway when Rafa drops deep to get into the game.

There is a big case to playing 3 at the back against them again, after Harry made that tactical switch at H/T last time against them which worked superbly, but ultimately couldn't break down Chris fucking Foy.