Kephren Thuram

[Archibald&Crooks]

Linked by WLB

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I’m encouraged that we’re being linked to a bunch of players I know nothing about. I’m assuming it means our scouts are actually doing some work!

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

As I mentioned in the ITK thread, he isn’t even a 6, he’s a ball carrying 8.

In fact he’s actually a bit poor defensively and as @Ghost Hardware mentioned he is weaker the deeper he plays.

Makes zero sense as a 6 signing.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

As I mentioned in the ITK thread, he isn’t even a 6, he’s a ball carrying 8.

In fact he’s actually a bit poor defensively and as @Ghost Hardware mentioned he is weaker the deeper he plays.

Makes zero sense as a 6 signing.

This is all that needs to be said really. If we are looking for a b2b/advanced 8 then he’d certainly be an interesting option but he isn’t a 6. He does solid defensive work in the middle of the pitch and will track back but he is nowhere near strong enough in that area to be considered a viable option as a DM. Its a really awkward fit. He isn't an Ederson who I think could be adapted to play the DM role well, its just not Thuram's position.

To get the best out of him he has to be further up the pitch. In a double pivot he needs to play alongside a 6 not as the 6. As you say, very odd scouting if we view him as a 6. Really in that department we seem to have a very scattergun approach Zubimendi, Ederson, Onana, Thuram, Fofana, Gray and Locatelli are all very different profile of midfielder and a bunch aren’t even DM’s. Out of that list Ederson and Locatelli will be off the market, i don't rate Onana particualalry highly and Thuram isn't a 6. Fofana might be able to do a job there but again he's more a B2B, it would be a gamble. Zubimendi would be a natural fit for the role but he is an interceptor rather then a physically dominant ball winer. I like him a lot as a player but the lack of physicality given our high line could be an issue. Grey given that he is HG and has huge potential would be my top pick of the bunch but not only would he be incredibly difficult/expensive to get (maybe even impossible) he is still raw so might not even be a starter for half the season.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

Spot on @Ghost Hardware.

May not be a big name yet but from what I’ve seen Onyedika is 100% the best fit for what we need and who I would go for.

Just a shame we didn’t go for Wharton, he’d have been great.

 

[felmani26]

IIRC Liverpool were heavily in for him last summer and saw him as a replacement for Thiago so that's perhaps the guidance for how Thuram would be utilised i.e. not the 6 we need.

 

[arunspurs]

Not sold on him. His highlight reel probably hypes his ability a bit more. IMO , he is a moments player . I have seen him enough to know he has quite a few games where he is invisible. When he is switched on for the game he can produce those unplayable moments as opponent.

For us , I want a steady consistent player than a moments player

 

[JamieSpursCommunityUser]

This is all that needs to be said really. If we are looking for a b2b/advanced 8 then he’d certainly be an interesting option but he isn’t a 6. He does solid defensive work in the middle of the pitch and will track back but he is nowhere near strong enough in that area to be considered a viable option as a DM. Its a really awkward fit. He isn't an Ederson who I think could be adapted to play the DM role well, its just not Thuram's position.

To get the best out of him he has to be further up the pitch. In a double pivot he needs to play alongside a 6 not as the 6. As you say, very odd scouting if we view him as a 6. Really in that department we seem to have a very scattergun approach Zubimendi, Ederson, Onana, Thuram, Fofana, Gray and Locatelli are all very different profile of midfielder and a bunch aren’t even DM’s. Out of that list Ederson and Locatelli will be off the market, i don't rate Onana particualalry highly and Thuram isn't a 6. Fofana might be able to do a job there but again he's more a B2B, it would be a gamble. Zubimendi would be a natural fit for the role but he is an interceptor rather then a physically dominant ball winer. I like him a lot as a player but the lack of physicality given our high line could be an issue. Grey given that he is HG and has huge potential would be my top pick of the bunch but not only would he be incredibly difficult/expensive to get (maybe even impossible) he is still raw so might not even be a starter for half the season.

I think the two factors you've highlighted with what appears to be scattergun scouting are:

1) There are very few finished articles suited for our single pivot no.6 role. The only two I can think of are Palinha and Locatelli. So which aspects do we then compromise? Physical dominance, creative passing, or defensive ability?

2) We're weighing up the likely recovery of Bissouma and Bentancur to top form and fitness.

If we think they'll be back to top form, we can afford to invest the time into a project no.6 who could become immense.

If not we have to take the best 6 available this window, even if their ceiling is lower.

If the club believes Bissouma and Lolo will be ok then Thuram does have a lot of the raw qualities to be moulded into an outstanding 6 over time imo. In our system at least.

- Top technical security in breaking the press, keeping it under control with his big frame so he can step out quickly and break lines before they reset.
- Excellent ball retention and carrying through tight spaces and defensive blocks.
- Top athleticism and recovery pace that will play to his strengths in a high line.
- Good 1v1 defending.

He tracks runners but doesn't have great positioning, nor reads danger very well.

Can that be worked on? He is the son of Lillian Thuram. If it can he could be some player.

I'm not saying I'm convinced he's the guy - I'm just saying I can understand our thinking.

This is where scouts and analysts really earn their money. What we're trying to asses is his character, intelligence, and ability to learn.

 

[Japhet]

Not at all convinced by him, especially as a 6.

 

[ItsBoris]

One thing worth mentioning about this transfer is that his club, Nice, are wholly owned by one Jim Arthur Ratcliffe, and you would think he would be reluctant to sell any player to a team likely to finish one or two spots above Man United in the table. If they were going to sell to a premier league team, would surely be Man United he would go to I should think?

Also like others said, a position we're pretty stacked in already. Def higher priorities than this. And so for those reasons, I'm out.

 

[mr ashley]

If modern scouting now focussed on specific attributes and how they fit a specific role in our system (eg recoveries, duals won etc) is it possible he has been identified for what he can bring, rather than what he already offers in the system at nice?

not suggesting he’s the right fit btw, asking to get a better understanding

 

[JamieSpursCommunityUser]

One thing worth mentioning about this transfer is that his club, Nice, are wholly owned by one Jim Arthur Ratcliffe, and you would think he would be reluctant to sell any player to a team likely to finish one or two spots above Man United in the table. If they were going to sell to a premier league team, would surely be Man United he would go to I should think?

Also like others said, a position we're pretty stacked in already. Def higher priorities than this. And so for those reasons, I'm out.

Ordinarily yes but contract expires 2025.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

If modern scouting now focussed on specific attributes and how they fit a specific role in our system (eg recoveries, duals won etc) is it possible he has been identified for what he can bring, rather than what he already offers in the system at nice?

not suggesting he’s the right fit btw, asking to get a better understanding

For sure but my issue with Thuram is he badly lacks defensive awareness, intelligence and positioning. He lacks the instincts and mental attributes you’d want to naturally see in someone you intend to mould as a 6.

And he’s primarily ball carrier. Surely we need the 6 to at least have a mix of ball carrying and passing skills.

 

[Nine while nine]

For those not in the know, Khéphren is named after the Egyptian ruler who built the second largest pyramid at Giza.


I once asked Lilian Thuram, who had named his first son after Marcus Garvey, how he had got his wife to agree to such an outlandish choice for his second son.

And he said

'I told her that I wanted to name our son after a Pharaoh.'

'And she wasn't keen'.

'So I said it could be any Pharaoh.'

'But still she wasn't keen.'

'So I said, but it could be anything. It could be Rameses, Khufu, Khéphren or Nuff.'

'And she said 'Pharaoh Nuff?''

'And I said, 'I'm glad you agree. Let's go for Khéphren'.'

'And so it was decided.'


True story.


Apart from all of it.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Apparently he is available at €15-20 mil. Must say that would be a good fee for him even if I have question marks about his defensive side.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

Very low fee but we can’t buy on price.

We would still be buying a player not suitable for the role and would end up having to buy again.

Interesting though Ghost, thanks for sharing!

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Very low fee but we can’t buy on price.

We would still be buying a player not suitable for the role and would end up having to buy again.

Interesting though Ghost, thanks for sharing!

Yeah it’s a very good fee. I do agree with you re buying for price.

Tbh I have no idea who we are looking at for the DM. It seems we are more looking for CM’s than DM’s at the moment in general. As a CM for that price he’s a solid option. That was more my point rather than getting him as a DM.

 

[arunspurs]

I would avoid. Theres a reason his fee is low. He is inconsistent and dont need a moments player

 

[ItsBoris]

Could see him going to United with the Nice connection