January 2025 Scouting Thread

[YB123]

I'm going to get pelters for this but I would love a Henderson/milner type player, fit all season, talks non stop, leads by example, works off the ball more than on the ball.

An experienced character is essential.

Emre Can?.....Please dont hurt me

 

[phillipjpalmer]

Emre Can?.....Please dont hurt me

Haven't seen him play for a while, but like the idea of German, just from a communication and personality perspective.

I feel the current club culture is fluffy and cuddly at the moment, need to add some steel

 

[gavspur]

I have no idea who’s out there and available for a CDM role with leadership qualities. Hasn’t Goretzka dropped dramatically in form? Would Kimmich even be possible?

 

[spurs9]

I have no idea who’s out there and available for a CDM role with leadership qualities. Hasn’t Goretzka dropped dramatically in form? Would Kimmich even be possible?

Statistically, Palacios from Leverkusen looks a perfect fit. I haven't watched enough of him to gage his leadership skills, however Leverkusen were excellent at turning games around and getting wins from losses late on. Not sure how much of a part he played in that. @Ghost Hardware have you watch him much?

Saw this scout report and a couple of things stood out:

"Palacios was crucial to the title winning season of Bayern Leverkusen working alongside Granit Xhaka as a double pivot, utilizing his work rate and discipline to perfection and enabling the likes of Wirtz, Grimaldo and Hofmann ample creative license. The Argentine operates at the base of midfield and is tasked with winning the ball back in dangerous areas and dictating the tempo of possession with his passes, and he is capable of shifting defense to attack and launching attacking transitions for Leverkusen."

"The 25-year-old demonstrates work rate, stamina, and intensity and these qualities have been crucial in his transformation into a box-to-box midfielder. Whether it be pressing the opposition up the pitch, always making himself available for a pass or tracking back to help the defense, he is a multifaceted threat whose range of pass and accuracy allows him to break the lines with his sharp forward passing."

Exequiel Palacios: Leverkusen’s Unsung Argentine Dynamo in Midfield - Breaking The Lines

Exequiel Palacios was 20 years old when he starred for River Plate as they defeated crosstown rivals Boca Juniors in the Copa Libertadores Final. He was 21 when he departed his boyhood club and joined Bayer Leverkusen for €22 million. He was 22 when he came off the bench and led Argentina to...

breakingthelines.com

 

[gavspur]

Statistically, Palacios from Leverkusen looks a perfect fit. I haven't watched enough of him to gage his leadership skills, however Leverkusen were excellent at turning games around and getting wins from losses late on. Not sure how much of a part he played in that. @Ghost Hardware have you watch him much?

Saw this scout report and a couple of things stood out:

"Palacios was crucial to the title winning season of Bayern Leverkusen working alongside Granit Xhaka as a double pivot, utilizing his work rate and discipline to perfection and enabling the likes of Wirtz, Grimaldo and Hofmann ample creative license. The Argentine operates at the base of midfield and is tasked with winning the ball back in dangerous areas and dictating the tempo of possession with his passes, and he is capable of shifting defense to attack and launching attacking transitions for Leverkusen."

"The 25-year-old demonstrates work rate, stamina, and intensity and these qualities have been crucial in his transformation into a box-to-box midfielder. Whether it be pressing the opposition up the pitch, always making himself available for a pass or tracking back to help the defense, he is a multifaceted threat whose range of pass and accuracy allows him to break the lines with his sharp forward passing."

Exequiel Palacios: Leverkusen’s Unsung Argentine Dynamo in Midfield - Breaking The Lines

Exequiel Palacios was 20 years old when he starred for River Plate as they defeated crosstown rivals Boca Juniors in the Copa Libertadores Final. He was 21 when he departed his boyhood club and joined Bayer Leverkusen for €22 million. He was 22 when he came off the bench and led Argentina to...

breakingthelines.com

Possibly sounds more box to box, with Xhaka doing the defensive part? I don’t know, I don’t watch Leverkusen. And we don’t want Xhaka!

 

[YB123]

I have no idea who’s out there and available for a CDM role with leadership qualities. Hasn’t Goretzka dropped dramatically in form? Would Kimmich even be possible?

Kimmich would be perfect. I've watched documentaries. He can rub people up the wrong way but its because he demands the very best. From players and even did it with Hansi Flick.

Robert Andrich is another type I think we need.

 

[only1waddle]

Kimmich would be perfect. I've watched documentaries. He can rub people up the wrong way but its because he demands the very best. From players and even did it with Hansi Flick.

Robert Andrich is another type I think we need.

Would Ange not see that as "the one bad character" that can ruin a dressing room?

 

[Guntz]

Think Mbuemo would be outstanding for us.

He reminds me of Mane before he made the step up to Pool.

Someone who will go up a level once he leaves Brentford.

 

[spurs9]

Possibly sounds more box to box, with Xhaka doing the defensive part? I don’t know, I don’t watch Leverkusen. And we don’t want Xhaka!

Other way around. Xhaka averaged 1 tackle per 90 mins to Palacios's 3 and 0.36 interceptions v EP's 1

Edit: No Leverkusen player made more tackles nor more interceptions than Palacios last season. He was also 3rd for blocking passes. Palacios also made more tackles in the def 1/3 of the pitch than either of the othe 2 area's, where as Xhaka made most of his in the middle 1/3.

For reference, Bissouma topped our tackles and interceptions but made more tackles in the middle 1/3 than anywhere else.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Statistically, Palacios from Leverkusen looks a perfect fit. I haven't watched enough of him to gage his leadership skills, however Leverkusen were excellent at turning games around and getting wins from losses late on. Not sure how much of a part he played in that. @Ghost Hardware have you watch him much?

Saw this scout report and a couple of things stood out:

"Palacios was crucial to the title winning season of Bayern Leverkusen working alongside Granit Xhaka as a double pivot, utilizing his work rate and discipline to perfection and enabling the likes of Wirtz, Grimaldo and Hofmann ample creative license. The Argentine operates at the base of midfield and is tasked with winning the ball back in dangerous areas and dictating the tempo of possession with his passes, and he is capable of shifting defense to attack and launching attacking transitions for Leverkusen."

"The 25-year-old demonstrates work rate, stamina, and intensity and these qualities have been crucial in his transformation into a box-to-box midfielder. Whether it be pressing the opposition up the pitch, always making himself available for a pass or tracking back to help the defense, he is a multifaceted threat whose range of pass and accuracy allows him to break the lines with his sharp forward passing."

Exequiel Palacios: Leverkusen’s Unsung Argentine Dynamo in Midfield - Breaking The Lines

Exequiel Palacios was 20 years old when he starred for River Plate as they defeated crosstown rivals Boca Juniors in the Copa Libertadores Final. He was 21 when he departed his boyhood club and joined Bayer Leverkusen for €22 million. He was 22 when he came off the bench and led Argentina to...

breakingthelines.com

I love Palacios, he does have a laps in concentration in him from time to time but really I think he’s quality. I guess the big question for me in general re DM is what kind of DM does Ange want. I think quite a few would like us to have a physical commanding anchor who’s sole focus is to shield the back line and link the defence and attack when building from the back. I am just not entirely sure that’s what Ange wants. At least not fully.

In regards to skill set, as you point out, Pelacios is a very dynamic player who can and has played as the deeper holding midfielder and as a b2b. Comfortable in possession and good at stepping up to cut out danger. In a very very rudimentary sense Alonso’s tactics rely on diagonal passing between the lines so he will often ask his players to slightly stagger their positions. The back three will also become a back four at times and in general the CM 2 won’t fully commit to any one role. This results in quite a bit of positional fluidity. Essentially it’s a true double pivot with the two players feeding off the each others movement although Palacios is most certainly the stronger defensively and more agile of the two which results in him often being the more active following a turn over. Xhaka has taken up the mantle of midfield dictator in some ways but not necessarily in the sense of being the defensive anchor. They complement each other well.

Essentially whilst he might not be completely suited to a lone anchor/defensive midfield general role as he likes to step up rather then sit deep and shield I think he’d probably suit a more dynamic all action dm that I get the feeling Ange prefers. I’d have no doubts about him being able to fulfil the current duties of Biss and Bentancur.

The two issues with Palacios tho are firstly I think it would be very difficult/expensive to get him out of there and secondly, which is probably the more pertinent issue, his injury record is poor. You can see below. Unfortunately whilst as a profile I think he’d be excellent and you were spot on to suggest him, I think his injuries alone probably make him a complete no go.

It really is a shame as I think he’s class but I just don’t think it would be worth the risk. As I’ve mentioned previously I think Porto’s Alan Varela is probably the best option at present (it is slim pickings tho) but he’d probably be beyond our price range.

 

[spurs9]

I love Palacios, he does have a laps in concentration in him from time to time but really I think he’s quality. I guess the big question for me in general re DM is what kind of DM does Ange want. I think quite a few would like us to have a physical commanding anchor who’s sole focus is to shield the back line and link the defence and attack when building from the back. I am just not entirely sure that’s what Ange wants. At least not fully.

In regards to skill set, as you point out, Pelacios is a very dynamic player who can and has played as the deeper holding midfielder and as a b2b. Comfortable in possession and good at stepping up to cut out danger. In a very very rudimentary sense Alonso’s tactics rely on diagonal passing between the lines so he will often ask his players to slightly stagger their positions. The back three will also become a back four at times and in general the CM 2 won’t fully commit to any one role. This results in quite a bit of positional fluidity. Essentially it’s a true double pivot with the two players feeding off the each others movement although Palacios is most certainly the stronger defensively and more agile of the two which results in him often being the more active following a turn over. Xhaka has taken up the mantle of midfield dictator in some ways but not necessarily in the sense of being the defensive anchor. They complement each other well.

Essentially whilst he might not be completely suited to a lone anchor/defensive midfield general role as he likes to step up rather then sit deep and shield I think he’d probably suit a more dynamic all action dm that I get the feeling Ange prefers. I’d have no doubts about him being able to fulfil the current duties of Biss and Bentancur.

The two issues with Palacios tho are firstly I think it would be very difficult/expensive to get him out of there and secondly, which is probably the more pertinent issue, his injury record is poor. You can see below. Unfortunately whilst as a profile I think he’d be excellent and you were spot on to suggest him, I think his injuries alone probably make him a complete no go.

View attachment 146250

It really is a shame as I think he’s class but I just don’t think it would be worth the risk. As I’ve mentioned previously I think Porto’s Alan Varela is probably the best option at present (it is slim pickings tho) but he’d probably be beyond our price range.

Do either Palacios or Valera show leadership when the going gets tough? If Palacios did, I would probably take him only being available for 70% of the season, we have Gray to blood anyway.

 

[Impspur1]

…and someone to take on the role of a good and strong team captain.

Absolutely, despite so much experience on the pitch we do seem to lack leadership, especially when we are creaking

 

[muppetman]

Do we think Archie Gray might be given a run of games as DM before January?

At RB, yes. As a DM, no.

Maybe, possibly, perhaps in the Europa but only if it's some sort of dead rubber.

I think Archie is a supremely talented footballer, good on the ball, press resistant and able to find a pass, but in every game I've seen of him so far at full back he's let players run off him. This is perhaps OK at full back with a CB covering, but the way we need our deepest midfielder to play - just can't see it.






Obviously Ange will now pick him to play DM in every game moving forward and he will be like a combination of Pirlo and Kante just to make me look even more of an idiot than usual!

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Do either Palacios or Valera show leadership when the going gets tough? If Palacios did, I would probably take him only being available for 70% of the season, we have Gray to blood anyway.

I guess that’s the real question. Varela is only 23 and whilst I do think he has the potential to become an influential presence in that regard I wouldn’t imagine he would immediately have the desired effect, that said he is a very hard worker and focus/lack of fight has never seemed to be an issue for him whenever I have watched Porto. Liverpool are big admirers, also City supposedly rate him highly and want him to fill the Rodri hole so he is probably out of our reach regardless of the fee. As for Palacios, he is another hard worker who certainly seems to have strong mental fortitude. I do think Xhaka is probably the more outgoing experienced presence in that midfield and Tah is the outfield captain as far as im aware (Hradecky the goalkeeper being the overall captain) but Palacios would certainly add some grit to our midfield. In regards to leadership tho I can't really say that he comes across as dominant personality in the face adversity but he is a tireless worker who never seems to stop. There is no doubt he would improve out team I just doubt we would be willing to pay whatever large fee BL would demand for such a important player especially with his injury record.

What I would also add that Johnny Cardoso, who is the same age at Varela, will not give us what we are lacking in that department. One of the issues I have with him is that he doesn't stamp enough authority on games and quite often can just be a worker bee rather then pivotal presence. He is still young tho for a DM and as I replied to someone else in this thread a full season as a starter could do a lot for his development as he has a lot of potential but thus far I am not sure he is of the required level for what we need.

I think the hard reality is that we likely wont be willing to spend big on a developed DM so realistically we will be looking at the younger and/or cheaper market. Players like Samuele Ricci, Nicolò Rovella, Johnny, Pepelu or maybe Anguissa on a free, although his age (28) might put us off, is more the type of financial profile i'd expect us to be looking at.

 

[TPdYID]

Let's not get to hung-up on "must be rapid". Micky is "rapid", but also a very good defender.

Remember...Davinson Sanchez was also described as "rapid" once.

Good recruitment will have all these basis covered.

 

[gavspur]

I guess that’s the real question. Varela is only 23 and whilst I do think he has the potential to become an influential presence in that regard I wouldn’t imagine he would immediately have the desired effect, that said he is a very hard worker and focus/lack of fight has never seemed to be an issue for him whenever I have watched Porto. Liverpool are big admirers, also City supposedly rate him highly and want him to fill the Rodri hole so he is probably out of our reach regardless of the fee. As for Palacios, he is another hard worker who certainly seems to have strong mental fortitude. I do think Xhaka is probably the more outgoing experienced presence in that midfield and Tah is the outfield captain as far as im aware (Hradecky the goalkeeper being the overall captain) but Palacios would certainly add some grit to our midfield. In regards to leadership tho I can't really say that he comes across as dominant personality in the face adversity but he is a tireless worker who never seems to stop. There is no doubt he would improve out team I just doubt we would be willing to pay whatever large fee BL would demand for such a important player especially with his injury record.

What I would also add that Johnny Cardoso, who is the same age at Varela, will not give us what we are lacking in that department. One of the issues I have with him is that he doesn't stamp enough authority on games and quite often can just be a worker bee rather then pivotal presence. He is still young tho for a DM and as I replied to someone else in this thread a full season as a starter could do a lot for his development as he has a lot of potential but thus far I am not sure he is of the required level for what we need.

I think the hard reality is that we likely wont be willing to spend big on a developed DM so realistically we will be looking at the younger and/or cheaper market. Players like Samuele Ricci, Nicolò Rovella, Johnny, Pepelu or maybe Anguissa on a free, although his age (28) might put us off, is more the type of financial profile i'd expect us to be looking at.

Anguissa’s a good shout, would certainly add some much needed strength to the midfield/team. Is he currently a starter at Napoli? Not sure on his leadership skill, although Demebele and Wanyama weren’t known for their leadership either, but they led by examples of performance and strength. God I wish we’d had those two for two more seasons!

 

[YB123]

Would Ange not see that as "the one bad character" that can ruin a dressing room?

No not when someone is the ultimate professional demanding the best from everyone around him

 

[brasil_spur]

I think it's becoming clear where we have gaps in the squad now:

GK - we urgently need competition and rotation for Vicario. If he got injured our season would be de-railed and he needs the competition to continue to ensure he ups his game for us.
LB - we have no proper LB cover and Udogie has looked suspect in defence quite a bit lately, same situation as above with Vicario.
CB - we need VDV cover and rotation, with the view to this person taking Davies' place in the squad.
MF - we need a proper leader. I'm 99% sure we would have won the game against Brighton on Sunday if we could have brought PEH on once we shipped that first goal.
LW - Son needs to be a rotation player as he phases out and his replacement phases in.

We're clearly not going to address all the above in the Jan window, but we should be aiming for 3 of those 5 and ensuring 2 at a minimum.

 

[felmani26]

How has Angelo Stiller at Stuttgart fared this season as he was superb last year.

Would certainly be a name to consider for the DM role who is also very progressive.

 

[mill]

I guess that’s the real question. Varela is only 23 and whilst I do think he has the potential to become an influential presence in that regard I wouldn’t imagine he would immediately have the desired effect, that said he is a very hard worker and focus/lack of fight has never seemed to be an issue for him whenever I have watched Porto. Liverpool are big admirers, also City supposedly rate him highly and want him to fill the Rodri hole so he is probably out of our reach regardless of the fee. As for Palacios, he is another hard worker who certainly seems to have strong mental fortitude. I do think Xhaka is probably the more outgoing experienced presence in that midfield and Tah is the outfield captain as far as im aware (Hradecky the goalkeeper being the overall captain) but Palacios would certainly add some grit to our midfield. In regards to leadership tho I can't really say that he comes across as dominant personality in the face adversity but he is a tireless worker who never seems to stop. There is no doubt he would improve out team I just doubt we would be willing to pay whatever large fee BL would demand for such a important player especially with his injury record.

What I would also add that Johnny Cardoso, who is the same age at Varela, will not give us what we are lacking in that department. One of the issues I have with him is that he doesn't stamp enough authority on games and quite often can just be a worker bee rather then pivotal presence. He is still young tho for a DM and as I replied to someone else in this thread a full season as a starter could do a lot for his development as he has a lot of potential but thus far I am not sure he is of the required level for what we need.

I think the hard reality is that we likely wont be willing to spend big on a developed DM so realistically we will be looking at the younger and/or cheaper market. Players like Samuele Ricci, Nicolò Rovella, Johnny, Pepelu or maybe Anguissa on a free, although his age (28) might put us off, is more the type of financial profile i'd expect us to be looking at.

We’ve been linked with Ricci a few times lately